DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

[Cathy]

No sorry it's not ringing any bells with me.

[Bruff]

I finally got round to watching the latest series of Peaky Blinders and the London-based Jewish gangster Alfie Solomons (played in great style by Tom Hardy) I'm sure noted that had ‘…dragged myself up here to stand by the oggin…’

Oggin – naval slang for the sea, specifically that bit you can see rather than the sea in general.

Alfie Solomons was actually standing by the canal not the sea in fictional Birmingham (actually filmed in the Tobacco Warehouse in Liverpool’s North Docks, where actually you could argue you were by the sea!).

Don’t know the origin of oggin.

Richard Broughton

[Tizer]

Cathy, it was sung by the Beverley Sisters. Wikipedia says `Sisters' was written by Irving Berlin and originally recorded in 1954 by Rosemary Clooney and her sister Betty, but it became the theme song of the Beverley Sisters.

[Stanley]

My immediate thought was that it was probably down originally to Shakespeare but when I had a furtle I found that it's a lot more complicated than that.....

[Tizer]

I mentioned a cartoon showing a `robin redbreast' on one of the other topics and I've read this morning about a robin roosting in the Christmas tree in the Liverpool Anglican Cathedral. That raises an interesting point. Why do we call it `robin redbreast' when it has an orange breast? I now find it's because the name is so old that it pre-dates the use of the word `orange' for a colour in the English language. Until oranges were first introduced to Britain we didn't have much that was orange in colour and didn't need a separate word, we just used `red'.

[Stanley]

Brown cattle are also called red......

[Stanley]

I often use 'have a gander' for having a look. Where did I get this from, I don't think I've ever heard it in Barlick. Where did it originate? It isn't obviously rhyming slang.

[PanBiker]

Always been known and in general use in our family.

[Tripps]

" It isn't obviously rhyming slang

That would be 'butcher's (hook). I've checked gander in Cassell's dictionary - there are a surprising eleven entries - some of which you' might be better not knowing. The one in question seems to originate in the 1910's and says -

a look, a survey; thus 'cop a gander', to take a look, (the bird's long neck). Simples


PS - if you're interested in words here's a link which is fascinating. Romany words
It's a very old book, but lots to keep us 'wordophiles' busy.

PPS - On the basis of the lack of pockets in shrouds - I've just bought a copy.

[Stanley]

Lovely David.... Of course, the long neck! You did right buying the book. I have just spent a ridiculous amount of money on a 60 page paperback on Protector Miner's Lamps.....

[Tripps]

I've got a miners' lamp. It was inherited - my step father was the 'go to' man in the pub for such things.

It came with a slim (24 pages) volume called 'Mine Gases' first published by the National Coal Board in 1956. This is the 1964 edition. (Still available on abebooks for £8)

"the most practical means of detecting carbon monoxide is by its effect on small warm blooded animals such as canaries linnets and mice. These creatures are more quickly affected by carbon monoxide poisoning than are human beings. A canary will fall from its perch, overcome by the gas, before a man feels anything unusual, but when this occur he must get to fresh air without delay."

I love the picture in the book, of a canary being resuscitated, in a well engineered metal and glass box with an oxygen cylinder strapped onto the top. I might just scan it and publish here.

In an idle moment I think perhaps it is a blessing that men no longer deep mine coal in such a dangerous environment, and that the methane which was so dangerous to them, may now be a national asset. Get fracking says I.

[Tripps]

Lovely David.... Of course, the long neck! You did right buying the book. I have just spent a ridiculous amount of money on a 60 page paperback on Protector Miner's Lamps.....

While I was at it - I've arranged for a copy of Cassell's Slang Dictionary to be sent to East Hill Street. Happy Christmas. You're obviously in need of a copy, and it's ridiculously cheap to do so. You'll like it.

[Stanley]

What!! Yippee!!

[Tizer]

In an idle moment I think perhaps it is a blessing that men no longer deep mine coal in such a dangerous environment, and that the methane which was so dangerous to them, may now be a national asset. Get fracking says I.

It's not only deep mining coal, they're still deep mining salt. I think it's the Khewra Mine in Pakistan were the workers often die in the mine while working for a pittance and producing blocks of highly-prized salt that's sold on at an exorbitant price. It's been happening since Alexander the Great discovered the salt reserves.

[Tripps]

Here's the image of first aid to a coal mine canary. (I hope )
Had it been from any other source, I'd have thought it was a spoof, but the NCB wouldn't do that in an official training book - would they. . . .?

[Stanley]

I've heard of them before David but never seen one. There are still many deep coal mines and China in particular has a bad safety record. It should be a matter of National pride that our Mines Safety Regulations were the most comprehensive in the world and adopted by many countries. When the EU produced their Mines Regulations they used the British model and the NCB laboratories at Bootle were the main advisers. I talked to a man once who was part of that process.

[Bodger]

A word my wife uses when i speak to her and she's busy, Mieder / Miether, " dont miether me im busy"
corruption of bother ?

[chinatyke]

A word my wife uses when i speak to her and she's busy, Mieder / Miether, " dont miether me im busy"
corruption of bother ?

Mither was used by an old man I worked with in Ramsbottom who was born and bred in Hawkshaw. In Burnley it was mider. I don't know the origin of the words.

[Tizer]

Perhaps it was cheaper to have a canary revival cage than to keep having to buy canaries? Also, it allowed you to check it wasn't a false alarm due to the bird dying of old age, going on strike or `pulling a sickie'!

Mither might be a variant of moither which my Lancashire granny used, as in "Stop thi moitherin' ". She seemed to use it a lot when I was around.

[Stanley]

A common usage Tiz, Both Webster and Collins suggest that the word is a variation of the Scots word for mother
I was struck yesterday by 'Reynard' for a fox. Where did that come from?

[Bodger]

As a child i recall reading Aesops fables, was Reynard in those ? my father always referred to a fox as reynard

[Tizer]

Wikipedia says: Reynard (Dutch: Reinaert; French: Renart; German: Reineke; Latin: Renartus) is the main character in a literary cycle of allegorical Dutch, English, French and German fables. Those stories are largely concerned with Reynard, an anthropomorphic red fox and trickster figure. His adventures usually involve him deceiving other anthropomorphic animals for his own advantage or trying to avoid retaliations from them.

[Stanley]

Thanks Tiz. That's another one ticked off.
Now then how about 'jumbo' used for anything big. Do your magic on that.

[Bodger]

"Sothered" If ive eaten a meal quickly and left a clean plate, my wife "By heck tha fair sothered that you must have liked it"

[Tizer]

Brewer's says that Jumbo was the name of an exceptionally large and popular African elephant (6.5 tons) at London Zoo which was sold to Barnum's Circus in 1882 after giving rides to thousands of young children. He was killed in a collision with a railway engine in 1885. I can't help with sother - never heard it before.

Now then, where did the phrase to `knock spots off someone' come from? I happened to see it in Brewer's but I'll let you guess rather than revealing all!