SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by PanBiker » 09 Jul 2012, 08:18

One more tip Mick, if if you put a blank line before you insert your picture and then another blank line after you have inserted it. Your preceding and following text will be spaced a little better.
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by micktoon » 09 Jul 2012, 09:48

Cheers Ian , keep the advice coming, its been a great help.
This is what the lathe cleaned up like after a good wire brush , wire wool and some .... or a lot of elbow grease :grin: , it just shows the quality of the old way things were made as it came up much better than you would have thought.

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To my suprise really everything freed off and worked , including the 1941 electric motor ! bearing in mind it had been in a very leaky shed for years its a wonder.
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by micktoon » 09 Jul 2012, 10:09

These posts are starting to look ok , even if I say so myself :grin:
After a few more jobs like fitting a new motor starter switch and lamp the lathe has been used for a couple of years as I have been collecting various chucks and tooling but now I have decided to give it a strip down and proper go over to hopefully get it back to its former glory. These old British machines are solid quality things that will last almost forever if looked after so it deserves to worked on, it will certainly see me out :wink:

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So the plan is over the coming weeks to strip down this lathe , repair some faults , inspect and refurbish parts , then repaint and rebuild :grin:

Cheers Mick.

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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by PanBiker » 09 Jul 2012, 12:24

Looking good Mick, both the lathe and your posts!

As I said earlier in the thread, I'm no engineer. I went into electronics rather than down to Rolls when I left school. I could never get on with a metalworking lathe for some reason. Taking a thou off at a time seemed very boring to me but I can see the skill and admire anyone who can turn a lump of metal into a thing of beauty or a functional piece of kit.

I did like hand turning on the wood lathe though, something very tactile about working with hand tools.

My one claim to fame in this thread, although over on the archive site now is my tin bashing efforts of making a sweetheart spitfire brooch by bending, cutting and filing an old penny, as was done during the war. I learnt quite a bit in the process and managed it after a cost of 10d in old money. My wife wears it now when we go to our 40's re-enactment events.

Keep up the good work and as Stanley says, the more posts and pictures the better.
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 10 Jul 2012, 04:48

Well done Mick, you've cracked it. Mention Shed Topics wherever you like, more people reading it won't wear it out! One thing I always try to remember is that not everyone is at the same level of skill or experience, that's why I state the bleeding obvious at times and post tips like sharpening wire brushes. It could be very helpful to someone...

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We started off yesterday with a bit of marking using the surface plate. The aim is to get a bit nearer a finish on the straps with square faces all round.

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Getting closer. All the bolt faces are square and I've put a bit more finish on the large faces.

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Back to an older technology for the finishing touches! A 12" bastard with a safe edge. Tip: safe edges can be improved by running the edge along the grindstone to take off the over hanging teeth so the edge is really safe. It's your file, you can do what you want with it! So today's task will be quiet filing and titivating. Amazing how much time all these operations take. I often think when I see models being sold at auction that they never reflect the hundreds of hours that went into them. One of the reasons why sheds are so good for us, nothing more relaxing than quietly working away and improving a lump of metal!
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by micktoon » 10 Jul 2012, 07:13

Good morning Ian , Stanley and anyone else watching :grin: , I think I have the posting worked out now , I am still having to consentrate mind :laugh5: . I saw your post about the sweetheart broach ages ago Ian , I was well impressed , how can the old shed culture stuff be accessed now ? I know what you mean about the woodturning compared to the metal turning as Stanley says people would not believe the hours that it takes to make metal into different shapes, say reducing a 4 inch diameter round metal bar to 3 inch diameter would take many passes and an hour or so , where as in wood 3-4 passes all happening within say 1 minute.

Good point about some people not being at the same level as others Stanley, I know I have been thankful of your explinations of things in the past and the more obvious the better :grin: . To be honest I have been consentrating so much on the mechanics of posting I am probably not mentioning allsorts ! Things will get better as I go.

As far as the lathe goes , I got distracted yesterday, I will be needing the milling machine during the lathe project and it has a habbit of becoming a shelf when not in use, gathering clutter. So I gave it a good clean off and oiling. I have been meaning to make a small gadget for trueing up the bench grinder wheel for sharpening my woodturning tools. A friend has loaned me his to copy, all it consists of is a block of alloy with an angled cut out on the bottom and a diamond single point dressing tool that is threaded that passes through a hole in the block. To use it you hold it onto and pushed up against the grinder rest by using the recess at the botton as a guide, then advance the diamond point to just hit the grind wheel slightly then with it pressed against the guide pass it across the face of the wheel, the diamond removes the outer diameter of the wheel and because its path is governed by the straight guide you end up with a nice true face to the wheel.

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This is my Bridgeport Milling machine, it looks better condition in photos than it really is, there are probably like the model T ford of milling machines , this one is 1967 but still going strong.

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This is the gadget in the upside down position, the red one is the original, you can see the round diamond dressing point sticking out the end and the ridge recess that slides along the grinder tool rest.

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This is a shot of the recess being milled into the block with a multi tipped carbide cutter, the tips are replaceable and are swapped for new ones once blunted but last a long time due to being very tough/hard.
Its back to the lathe today so should be looking different in next posting :grin:
Oh by the way I keep getting a window popping up saying google map API does not have valid key for this application ? , if I click ok or the small X in the corner of the window it gets rid of it but annoying ....anyone know how to solve it please .

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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by PanBiker » 10 Jul 2012, 08:17

Mick the Google Api problem is a bug that Doc is working on. Intermittent so a bugger to sort out. Lots of discussion on the site and it even has a thread of it's own. It will disappear once Doc has found where the rogue code is hiding.

I was just wondering as well Mick, how big is your shed!
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by micktoon » 10 Jul 2012, 09:23

Hi Ian, I should have looked before I posted about that API thing as I noticed the thread about it after :confused: as people say in their posts , its not a problem it was more I thought probably just my computer ? I also noticed that Stanley had put a link at the start of shed culture 2 ( shed matters ) linking to the old posts ... should have looked more closely there too :grin: I would still like to know if it would be possible to insert a link in the madmodder site post to tell others of Stanleys builds ?, so they could just click on it and be there.
Well the shed is more of a garage , shed and car port linking the two, it started off a large size single garage , then I extended it at the front so long and skinny , then extended it out to the side and back in phase two, so its like a long double now really and the proper shed is for woodturning........ you can never have enough room ha ha ....... and what room you do have gets filled with stuff anyway :laugh5:

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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 10 Jul 2012, 10:18

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A couple of hours filing and this is where I finished up, then I realised that the second from the right needed a bit more doing to it so I finished it. I've found the threaded rod for bolts, 3BA and have retired to the rocking chair for a bit of a think and then a read! Can't bore the centre to size till they have been split and bolted up. They need reducing to fit the eccentric groove and at the moment I'm favouring doing that before the split while they are in one piece. It will all have sorted itself out in my head by tomorrow.... The other niggle is do they need reducing a bit in width to clear the apertures in the bed?
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by micktoon » 10 Jul 2012, 18:26

Hope you are not falling asleep in that rocking chair mind Stanley :wink: , I think the same as you the more you can do to them when they are still in one piece. Looking good though.

i have got that jig thing more or less done, well to the point I can return it to my friend anyway, My diamond dresser rod part is a different style to the one on the original so will have to drill and tap it and have some sort of handle to screw it forward...... yet to be pondered :grin:

This is the jig after it was drilled to almost the right size getting reamed to the correct size, The reamer is turned by hand with the handle that is fitted to it and is kept square by the pointed centre in the milling head locating in a small cone shaped recess in the top of the reamer itself. Reaming is more accurate than drilling and gives a smoother bore for the rod to slide smoothly through.

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I had been going to leave the block longer than the original but due to not having drills long enough to go right through I decided to just cut off to the size of the original, this is it getting cut off in the cut off saw.

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This is the finished thing next to its red little friend :grin: , I just have to work out some method of tapping the end of the diamond tipped rod so it can be advanced gardually until it just skims the grind wheel, I will post a photo of it at the grinder once that has been done.

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I have more of the lathe stripped too so will post that later on tonight .

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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by micktoon » 10 Jul 2012, 22:46

Evening again everyone , this is the third attampt to post as computer froze , then second attempt I hit the back button in wrong window and lost the post again !!! Just a few photos of the state of play at the end of today . Cheers Mick

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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 11 Jul 2012, 03:38

You've been busy Mick. You're right about the importance of good tackle and how long-lived it is. My Harrison was almost unused having been used in Bolton Technical College and it cost me £1000 at a time when a Myford Super 7 was over £3000. Your Bridgeport miller is a better tool than my Harrison horizontal (£800) and will last you out. Both my lathe and miller had only been used on Tufnol for safety reasons...... As for letting something get rusted like that..... such a shame.
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by micktoon » 11 Jul 2012, 09:22

You are dead right Stanley , its such a shame to see a quality machine all rusty and neglected , mind some of the stuff I have seen at the scrapyard over the years almost makes you cry , just surplus to someone requirments and then smashed to bits once there and some of it wont have much wrong with it as it arrived !, another thing thats bad about high scrap prices, such a waste when all you can get now is sub standard foreign rubbish. I think them Myfords ended up about £7.500 in the end so god knows how much something like the Harrsison would be new today, one thing is for sure I could not afford one :laugh5: .
Its the way even the inside of all the castings has been painted too, I bet you would not find that now.

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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 12 Jul 2012, 04:27

They are still in business and small enough for you to get hold of a senior manager. I rang them a long time ago and they were very helpful sending me a complete parts list and a copy of the original instruction manual for both the lathe and the milling machine..
I had a lazy day yesterday and did nothing but read. I shall be in there this morning!
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by micktoon » 12 Jul 2012, 09:31

Good morning Stanley and all, I knew Harrisons were still in business but had heard that they did not seem interested if the machine was more than say ten years old, I know parts for all machine tools seem to be on the expensive side. Your lathe and Miller are in great condition Stanley , you can tell they have lead a sheltered life :grin: and for once have not been painted over in a hap hazard manner ! I know the bridgeport is a good machine but I still think your Harrison horizontal is a very useful bit of kit and will be better than the Bridgeport for some operation, I have been suprised how many times and varied uses it has had on your projects.

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I have moved the lathe so there is space all around it and stripped more things off.

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This image shows the rear of the lathe and the 1939 motor, the green box on the back is an coolant fluid tank I fitted, it holds fluid that is used to cool and lubricate the cutting tool and is pumped from this tank when needed.

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This is a view of the gears inside the headstock, these gears are used to select various speeds for the spindle, The corners of the gear cogs have been burred over , this will have happened because the lathe was not stopped before changing gears ( school kids for you ! ) I plan on de burring the gears so they mesh smoothly again. They have been quite stiff to change , this explains why.

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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 13 Jul 2012, 05:53

Interesting stuff Mick. Another consequence of burrs is that they tend to generate vibration in the drive and this can show up if you are doing a big fine cut across the face of a work-piece. One of the advantages of a belt driven lathe, the soft drive doesn't generate vibrations. Newton once told me that this showed up most on long cuts on the shafting lathe with multiple cutters, he could get a perfect finish in one pass and the tools kept sharp longer.
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The day started with some careful thought and marking up. First job was to get all the straps the same size and mark some centres. All the square faces were reduced to get a standard size and ensure they were dead square.
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Next job was to mark the locations of the bolts that will eventually hold the two halves of the strap together.
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Today I shall drill the holes clearance size for 3BA, put fitting marks on each half so that they can be clearly identified after splitting as mating surfaces and then reduce the strap to the size needed for the groove in the eccentric. Then the straps can be can be split, bolted together and the bore finished to the same size as the groove in the eccentric.
However.... Friday is a busy day so this may all be tomorrow's work!
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by micktoon » 13 Jul 2012, 08:10

Coming on well Stanley, I have noticed that Fridays are busy for you so hope you manage to get a little bit done in the shed. Good points about the chatter marks through the gearing too Stanley , I had not noticed that happening but the main thing was the stiffness changing from one speed setting to another , looking at it the burrs will have been causing this but once past the burr the actual area of the teeth that contact seem fine.
I stripped some more things off yesterday , mainly the electrics and cleaned off lots of caked on old grease and oil as the photos will show, my plan today is to get the three phase motor fitted , which will involve boring out the pully as the new motors shaft is larger diameter ( good job I have another lathe ! ) cutting a keyway in the pulley and making four spacers to make the motor sit further out as the body of the motor is smaller.

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Cheers Mick.

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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 15 Jul 2012, 05:51

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Boring holes for the bolts that will nip the two halves together.
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Close of play. All the bolt holes drilled, Locations for the the eccentric rod fixing located, will be bored to suit 2BA bolts. Hard to see but each strap marked with numbers as fitting marks so that they can be mated after splitting.
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by micktoon » 15 Jul 2012, 09:21

Hi Stanley , looks like you have been busy and making good progress too :grin:

Next job is to get the new motor fitted to the lathe, it involved making some new spacer blocks to move the new motor further out from the back of the lathe cabinet as the new motor is smaller physical size even though it has more power .

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this is the new spacer blocks next to the old ones, I made the new ones out of alloy, the old ones were steel but it will not make any difference.

This is the cross slide before getting cleaned up , a bit battered and bruised.

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This is it after a good clean up and a new stainless steel plate I made to replace the old buckled up thing

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Another point of intrest if anyone else has a similar Harrison lathe is a small mod I made a while back. The cross slide screw is covered by an alloy cover, I was finding it a struggle to fine anywhere to attach the magnetic base for the dial guage so fitted a steel plate to the top of the alloy cover and its now a nice flat stable place to put the magnetic dial guage on.

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I hope to get the motor fitted and tested today.
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 16 Jul 2012, 05:15

I like the steel plate on the lead screw shroud... good idea. Glad you think I got a lot done. I'm sure that some people look and wonder why I am messing around! I can stand about three hours at a time and that's enough.

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First job yesterday was to finish drilling the holes for the eccentric rod attachment and then tap them 2BA. I've left a relatively large amount of meat here and in the lugs for the bilts because I've made the mistake in the past of skimping here and finishing up with not enough room to get the fastenings in without a lot of fiddling.

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Next job was more marking. The straps need to be thinned down 1/16" each side and I wanted some guide marks for the extent of the milling.

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Marked up for milling and for the splitting cut as well.

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Close of play. Set up for milling down to thickness. It's around this point where I get to be really paranoid and rethink everything before I do another cut. If you reckon up the amount of time and work that has gone in to get to this stage it's frightening how one wrong move can waste it all.... Courage! quiet recap and switch the miller on!
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 17 Jul 2012, 07:55

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Close of play. The straps are thinned down to a fit on the eccentrics. Next job is to split them, bolt them together and then bore to the right size for the eccentric sheave. Then we can think about finish.... So far so good!
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 18 Jul 2012, 04:19

No shed today, I shame to admit I got a reading fit on me and finished my book! Great to have no pressure.....
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by micktoon » 18 Jul 2012, 10:42

Well , that was long post wiped when I noticed last image was not image but link , I tried to delete it to insert image and it wiped my post :surprised:

Hope you are enjoying the book Stanley :grin: As you commented , people that do not do this type of work or hobby tend to think it looks like what you have done will have taken say half an hour , where in fact its taken maybe a full afternoon. Especially with parts like you are doing at the moment, if you dont take time , think about it , plan it out and double check then take it steady plus have full concentration you can wreck a part you have spent many hours on, like you say its good not to be under pressure as thats when mistakes will happen !

I have stripped more from the lathe in an effort to get the spindle out to de burr the gear cogs , I have decided to give the machine a good inspection and repair any faults as it will last me a life time once its done. Now I have come this far it would be stupid not to go all the way.

I have the new motor fitted and spaced out to the correct location, it sounds very quiet and smooth compared to the old motor I am glad to say.

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I have removed the rear cover and the change gears and brackets etc, pretty dirty under here but it will probably have never been removed before.

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I have removed the clutch and cleaned up the back of where the cover was. The clutch is a bit worn , I will have to inspect further today so hope its something that can be addressed.

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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 19 Jul 2012, 05:35

They're built like battleships aren't they. My clutch chatters a bit running light but quiet under load.....

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First task was to mark the straps and split them. The thinnest cut I can do is with the Junior hacksaw so I invested in a new blade (!) and spent half an hour cutting as straight as I could. You never get a freehand cut dead right but it doesn't matter because these are mating surfaces and so will sort themselves out!

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All split and ready for 3BA fixing bolts made from threaded rod. If you want to be pernickety you can make special bolts but I'm lazy.....

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All bolted together and ready for the next stage which is to tidy them up in the lathe and bore to correct size for the eccentric.

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The SC two jaw comes into its own again, well done Johnny! All set up for today's work, some careful turning!
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by micktoon » 19 Jul 2012, 23:18

Good progress again Stanley, careful hand hacksaw cutting there , that new blade will have been money well spent ! The two jaw is out again too , it seems to be another handy bit of kit. I hope you manage to get in the shed tomorrow and Friday's tasks dont keep you too busy.

I have managed to get the Spindle out and a few other parts removed but have been distracted by a woodturning project, making a jewelry box for a birthday present so not much will happen on the lathe again tomorrow, I have been taking photos of the jewelry box getting made so might post in the woodwork section once its finished.

Back to the lathe. This is the collection of parts building up on the bench !

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View of rear casing with spindle and gears removed.

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I had thought this part , the main cone shaped bull gear wheel would have been able to have been removed once the spindle had been taken out but it will not come out the opening in the casing unless the gear shaft behind it is also removed, I am getting better drawings of the lathe tomorrow as its very hard to see exactly what is keeping this shaft in place so fingers crossed they will show in more detail.
It will be back to woodturning tomorrow so I will post once more is done.

Mick.

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