Oh I wish I hadn't looked at this part of the family tree again, I should have just left well alone.
I have a Barnard (or Bernard) Sutcliffe (1827 to 1912) who marries a Harriet Sutcliffe (1829/30 to 1884). Yesterday I found Harriet in both the 1851 and 1841 census living with her grandparents John and Ann in Roughlee. I think her mother may be their daughter Nancy (unmarried but living at home). John dies between 1841 and 1851, and the 1851 census gives Ann's likely dob as 1777. Does anyone know of this family?
Measure with a micrometer, mark with a pencil, cut with an axe.
Hello Julie
Barnard Sutcliffe Groom's Birth Date: 1828 Groom's Age: 29 Harriet Sutcliffe Bride's Birth Date: 1830 B Bride's Age: 27 Marriage Date: 1857 Marriage Place: Habergham-Eaves, Lancashire, Groom's Father's Name: John Sutcliffe Bride's Father's Name: Robert Robison Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M39597-8 System Origin: England-VR Source Film Number: 1526142 Reference Number: 2:3HBXM8X.
Barnard's father was also named John Sutcliffe. Harriet as you will see was the daughter of Robert Robison so you seem correct in your assumption that her mother was unmarried.
1881 census Barnard and Harriet census with 6 children one of which is named Robinson Sutcliffe the national archives reference is RG11 piece/folio4167 / 20 page number10. I would now check the census from 1841 1851 1861 1871 for Harriet Sutcliffe
Found this burials at St Bart's Colne for a John Sutcliffe
Burial: 18 Dec 1850 St Bartholomew, Colne, Lancs.
John Sutcliffe -
Age: 81
Abode: Foulridge
Buried by: F E Perrin
Register: Burials 1848 - 1899, Page 59, Entry 466
Source: LDS Film 1471066
No not part of our history but I have received such a great deal of assistance that I thought I would put a bit back and help you as I have been helped.
The nearest we have in relation to Sutcliffe is a William Widower who married Jane Higgin widow. I just looked these up for you on the LDS as the marriages for the year you need at that church you need has not been put on line yet on the Lancashire opc but the LDS gave all these details.
The LDS have the 1881 census and it's free to look at so that was what I came up for Harriet Sutcliffe. I haven't got access to ancestry or genes I check the census for who I need then use the library who have ancestry library addition inclusive of the 1911 census
I looked on the Lan opc for the burial for John Sutcliffe.
Sometimes we forget the obvious! Thank you for your help. Right onward with the Sutcliffes. There do seem to be a lot of Barnard Sutcliffes about, are they all related. MEL! Where are you??
Measure with a micrometer, mark with a pencil, cut with an axe.
Baptism: 30 Jan 1827 St Mary, Newchurch In Pendle, Lancashire, England
Bernard Sutcliffe - Son of John Sutcliffe & Peggy
Abode: Crow Trees Roughlee
Occupation: Weaver
Notes: P.
Baptised by: J Rushton Curate
Register: Baptisms 1822 - 1831, Page 55, Entry 439
Source: LDS Film 1278872
Marriage: 24 Jul 1825 St Mary, Newchurch in Pendle, Lancashire, England
John Suttcliffe - (X), Stone Mason Bachelor of Rough Lee of this Chapelry
Margaret Hartley - (X), Spinster of Rough Lee of this Chapelry
Witness: Peter Oddie, (X); James Bowker
Married by Banns with consent of parents by: J Rushton Off Min
Banns recorded for this Marriage
Register: Marriages 1814 - 1845, Page 5, Entry 15
Source: LDS Film 1278872
No baptism so far for Harriet Sutcliffe
Nancy Sutcliffe
Baptised 28.06.1811 Colne non conformist
Parents John & Ann Sutcliffe
Baptism: 2 Jan 1831 St Mary, Newchurch In Pendle, Lancashire, England
Robert Robinson - adult son of John Robinson & Betty
Born: 9 Nov 1808
Abode: Roughlee
Occupation: Spinner
Notes: 22 yrs of age
Baptised by: J Rushton
Register: Baptisms 1822 - 1831, Page 96, Entry 766
Source: LDS Film 1278872
You need to check the census though for 1841 1851 1861 1871 1881 1891 1901 1911 not only for Harriet and Barnard or Bernard but for Robert Robinson, John and Peggy Sutcliffe and Nancy Sutcliffe, and her parents John and Ann Sutcliffe
Hope this helps you
Kind regards
Eileen
Last edited by EileenDavid on 23 Feb 2012, 15:50, edited 1 time in total.
Working together again. Lovely! You have no idea how these posts cheer me up, there are still good people in the world. Don't worry, you'll never hit the headlines!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
If you haven`t already got this Bernard can be found on the 1851 census as Barned Suttcliffe, and is living with parents John and Margret and brother Robert in Roughlee. Reference H0107/2254 folio 780 page 21. The 1841 is equally bad and he is Bornard Sutliff
HO107/509/18 folio 22 page 10. Depending on which site you use it could have been listed as folio 21.
Thank you, I trawled through the census records for Roughlee yesterday and found both those that you have mentioned. Backwards now to John and Margaret to find certainly his and hopefully her parents. John gives his dob as circa 1804 and at Barrowford.
There is a Barnard Sutcliffe who marries in 1804; then
Baptisms: 4 Dec 1803 St Bartholomew, Colne, Lancashire, England Jno Sutcliffe - Son of Jno Sutcliffe & Ann Born: 4 Oct 1803 Abode: Bulsworthend Occupation: Weaver Register: Baptisms 1790 - 1812, Page 168, Entry 366 Source: LDS Film 1471024
and Baptisms: 9 Sep 1804 St Bartholomew, Colne, Lancashire, England John Sutcliffe - Son of Jno Sutcliffe & Isabel Born: 7 Aug 1804 Abode: Higher Standroyd Occupation: Farmer Register: Baptisms 1790 - 1812, Page 184, Entry 322 Source: LDS Film 1471024
Sutcliffe John 1802 Birth Lancashire RG4_1033 - this is the Baptist register for Colne.
I am drawn to the name Barnard - not coincedental; but may be a family name so either Barnard m1804 is brother to John's father or is John's father. There are also too many Johns. Difficult one to call this. There is no bap record as far as I can see for children of Barnard m 1804 which makes him being anyones father unlikely.
As John is an "Ag Lab", this makes the John and Isabel Sutcliffe the more likely of the two prospective Johns found.
It would be easy to get this wrong...
Measure with a micrometer, mark with a pencil, cut with an axe.
Let me know if I can check anything for you in Colne library Jules. I am in the local history section every Wednesday morning. There is a Higher Standroyd in the Lidgett area of Colne, on Skipton Old Road (a couple of miles down the hill from me.) It is now in the Lidgett & Bents conservation area.
Bernard's father was John mother Peggy ? Also did you check all the censuses for John Sutcliffe and did they all say Barrowford, born in 1804 and profession. I find the ages, profession and areas vary. Harriet's grandfather was also John?
I know about going down the wrong branches been down a few myself. There are several John's and several ways they spell Sutciffe and it would be easy to get this wrong.
Kind regards
Eileen
Last edited by EileenDavid on 23 Feb 2012, 15:40, edited 1 time in total.
It looks as if the Bernard Sutcliffe name goes right back to the early 17th Century. There are over 800 Sutcliffe entries in the St Bart's Colne registers on the LanOPC website...it makes interesting reading!
(There was a Barnard family at Alkincoats Colne in the early 17thC)
Have you got this information from John Clayton's Barrowford website?
And there is a link there to Mel's Sutcliffe genealogy.
1825 Marries and gives occupation as Stone Mason; Bachelor of Roughlee
Witnesses Peter Oddie and James Bowker
1827 Bap of Barnard at Newchurch in Pendle: Occupation weaver of Crow Trees, Roughlee
1837 Bap of Barnard (again), John, Robert giving occupation as Labourer of Roughlee
1841 Census - Roughlee - Ag Lab at 35 (rounded up/down)
1851 Census - age 47 (b 1804) Born Barrowford, occ Ag Lab
1861 Census - age 55 (b 1806) Born Barrowford occ Labourer in stone pit
On the Lancashire BMD site searching from 1861 onwards I can only see 2 likely candidates deaths, 1 in 1868 who describes as age 55 (Colne) and one in 1875 (Pendle) age 70.
Hmmmm......
Measure with a micrometer, mark with a pencil, cut with an axe.
I have been looking through all my Sutcliffe records for the area – my husbands side has Sutcliffes too! If Harriets mother was Nancy born 1811 ish and Nancy`s parents were John and Ann then it’s likely she was the one baptised at Colne Particular Baptists. The date given is 28th June, 1811 which depending on how it was recorded could be her birth date and not the actual baptism date, which being a Baptist would have been a few years later. According to one of the Doreen Crowther pedigrees this John was born 1774, married an Ann and had three children: Joseph 1807, Jane 1809 and Nancy 1811 who were all baptised at Colne Particular Baptists. John (1774) was one of fourteen children born to a Joseph (1736) and Nancy Sutcliffe of Pasture .
Ah! I have just seen Wendyf`s link to John Clayton`s site which gives some details of the same family. However,I think Bernards date should read 1773 not 1873.
Sorry, for this being brief, but I should be working. If you think it may be your Harriets family then I can supply more detail.
Better go.
Mo
Last edited by mosie on 23 Feb 2012, 16:48, edited 1 time in total.
Told you Mo and Wendyf were good they have both helped me in the past.
You said that John Sutcliffe was a labourer in stone pit well Bernard on the 1881 census was a stone mason's labourer so he could have followed in his father's footsteps. Was John's wife Margaret or Peggy on the censuses.
Mo has given you the same Nancy 1811 at the non conformist LDS as I found so could be your link of Sutcliffe's for Harriet Link.
Found this marriage on the LDS fits with the grandparent's of Harriet. First child born 1807?
John Sutcliffe
bride's name: Ann Hutchinson
marriage date: 12 Oct 1805
marriage place: Burnley,Lancashire,England
indexing project (batch) number: M00520-5
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 1068759
name: John Sutcliffe
event type: Birth
birth date: 16 May 1774
birthplace: Colne, Lancashirefather's name: Joseph Sutcliffe
mother's name: Nancy Sutcliffe
record set: RG4_1033
Both on the LDS also list the 13 children so ask Mo for what she has I think you are on a winner for Harriet's side of tree
I'm still here. Well sort of. I can't get to grips with this new layout at all and tend to switch off as quick as I've switched on. Lucky for me/you/who knows! I spotted the Sutcliffe v Sutcliffe. I've not read all the topic, flashy stuff is to distracting. I have Barnard and Harriet in my tree. It's a while since I looked att hem but I think Harriet connects to my lot though. I have some docs/PR's for this line.
Julie, I think you have my email address if you want to know more. Or send me a PM.
Stanley found a way to get rid of the side bar with the flashing adverts. What you do is donate as little as a £1.00 click the arrow at the top of the left hand side and hey presto the adverts disappear.
Mel, nice to see you popping up! You can turn the sidebar off with the blue arrow at the top of it. To get rid of the other adverts, just donate at least £1 via Pay-Pal. You don't need to have a Pay Pal account to do it and that will solve all your problems. You'll find the new platform is much better than the old one as you play with it and find your way round.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
I believe Nancy Sutcliffe married John Grimshaw 4 Feb 1854 in Burnley though I've not found him on a census with her so it's possible he died quite quickly after the marriage? I believe she died in 1877 Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1877
GRIMSHAW Nancy 69 Pendle Preston PE/4/24
1861
RG9/3082/21/9
Roughlee
Bernard Sutcliffe Head Marr 33 Stone pit worker Roughlee
Harriet Wife 31 Cotton drawer Roughlee
Betty Dau 3 Roughlee
Margaret Dau 1 Roughlee
John Son 6m Roughlee
Nancy Grimshaw Boarder Mar 49 Washer woman Barrowford
1871
RG9/4159/22/9&10
Roughlee
Bernard Sutcliffe Head Marr 44 Engine tenter at cotton mill Roughlee
Harriet Wife 41 Roughlee
Betty Dau 13 Cotton weaver Roughlee
Margaret Dau 11 Scholar Roughlee
John Son 10 Scholar Roughlee
Joseph Son 7 Scholar Roughlee
Robinson son 5 Scholar Roughlee
Mary A Dau 2 Roughlee
Nancy Grimshaw Mother in Law Widow 59 Washer woman Barrowford
Bernard (Barnard?) was the son of John Sutcliffe and Margaret (Peggy) Hartley I think. They married 24 Jul 1825 at Newchurch in Pendle.
Working on this thread has taken a back seat due to new job (going well). Will take it up at the end of April after (hopefully) a successful British Retail Therapy sorry Consortium audit.
Measure with a micrometer, mark with a pencil, cut with an axe.
There do seem to be a lot of Barnard Sutcliffes about, are they all related. 
MEL! Where are you??
