Joseph Bracewell/Susy Hartley/John Higgin

[EileenDavid]

Anyone used the wills from LDS. I have two I want to view one for a Henry Higgin late of Roughlee 1735-1736 on film numbers 89767 and 89768 and John Higgin of Roughlee in Pendle yeoman 1798 film 89803 and 89804. I thought of getting them from Lancashire archives but can't find them on there.

Any help gratefully received of how I get them

Eileen

[Wendyf]

Eileen try this websitehttp://www.origins.net/NWIWelcome.aspx? ... fAodHneHIQ

[EileenDavid]

Thanks for the info Wendy

Had a quick look but couldn't find any for Lancashire.

Eileen

[Wendyf]

Do you know where the will was proved Eileen? I have found Colne wills proved both in London and York. There is a national database on there which includes some from Chester. The Colne will proved in London was downloadable straight away from the National Archives. I had to order a copy of the one proved in York and it came by post.

[EileenDavid]

Hello Wendy,

This is what is on the search results for Lancashire Wills on the LDS site

http://user.xmission.com/~nelsonb/lws.htm

Infra
Wills and Administrations of Lancashire 1590-1857
Church of England.
Diocese of Chester. Consistory Court

Does this mean anything to you.

Eileen

[EileenDavid]

Hello again Wendy

I emailed the Lancashire archives and they said they will send me a copy of John Higgin for £5.00 inclusive of postage etc.

Eileen

[EileenDavid]

Hello everyone

I have just ordered a couple of wills from LCC and I have had to sign to say that I won't post on a website or issue copies etc. Surely if it is our relative it belongs to us more than to them. The wills are from 1736 and 1798 it's hardly data protection. I want to put it in my family history book that I am writing anyone know were I stand. Perhaps I should do as the French do in the EEC say yes we agree and sign then totally ignore.

Eileen

[Stanley]

Eileen, I totally agree and am dead against this automatic assumption of copyright by archives. They even do it if you deposit research and specify that it is public access like the LTP. I have always ignored the rule as long as I believed it was unfair and have yet to be prosecuted. Make up your own mind. Plenty of wills in our archive.

[EileenDavid]

Goodmorning Stanley

Thanks for the advise I don't know what these archives think they are. This geneology is a definate money winner I have spent hundreds over the years. I haven't posted any of my info on any site, I have shared with people doing the same research and am finding relatives all over the world but having read on OGFB of the horror stories of people who have posted of people changing their trees etc on these sites I won't be submitting them. There was a couple of trees on ancestry that I wanted to look at which are public trees but I have only ever paid as you go and they won't let you view on that and these are public trees. There was also someone who was going down the wrong branch and wanted to let him know it was no skin of my nose but having been down a few wrong branches thought I would be helpful and yet ancestry wouldn't let me advise them unless I paid full membership. I did a pay as you go for the purpose but haven't done that since either I now use the library for census.

Eileen

[Stanley]

Too much commercialism Eileen and I can never understand why posting the Census online shouldn't be a function of government and free to the user.

[EileenDavid]

Like minded people on this site after all they are only the custodians of the information. The information belongs to the public.

Eileen

[Wendyf]

Found a little snippet in the 19thC Newspapers Online.
August 1804, Richard Higgin, Calico manufacturer, late of Pendle Forest near Colne, is in Lancaster Gaol for debt.

[EileenDavid]

Good morning Wendy

Thanks for that snippet. There were quite a few Higgin went to Lancaster as a John Higgin was governor of Lancaster prison. Hope Richard wasn't one of his relatives. I will keep that just in case he is one of mine but so far I haven't had a calico manufacturer. Mine were in tallow.

Eileen

[Wendyf]

I am in the library looking at Newchurch Parish Registers 1574 to 1754.
Henry son of John Higgin of Hollin Top Baptized 4 Mar 1743
There are other John & Henry Higgins of Wheatley Carr about the same time.

[Wendyf]

Just realised that you mentioned John Clayton in your initial post. He has information on his website about the Bollard family and a means of contacting Shirley Butterworth.http://www.barrowford.org/page63.html

[Stanley]

Lovely to see you lot getting on with what the site is all about while others are doing nothing but whinge. Wonderful, what you are doing is what made OG the great site it is. More power to your collective elbows!

PS. I think we are stuck with Eileen now. Never seen anyone settle in so quickly!

[Wendyf]

It's the reason I come to the site.

[EileenDavid]

Thanks for that Stanley,

You are stuck with me your fault for being so helpful.

You are all really friendly and it's as though I have always been a member.

Eileen

[EileenDavid]

Hello Wendy

Thanks for the info on John Clayton, he was helpful when I emailed him and simplified the will of James Bollard for me. I also emailed Shirley Butterworth about Joseph Bracewell circa 1746 but she didn't get back to me. Stanley gave me her email and said there was another person named Julie Cheche but all her email addresses on google come back to me. I wanted to advise her that we are a 100% certain she has the wrong John Bracewell whose father was Joseph and brother of our Jenny as we have total proof that he didn't have any children and died in Salford and was a grocer. His wife was Susan not Mary nee Starkey who went to America.

The other message you sent me regarding the two John Higgin's one at Hollin Top and one at Wheatley Carr is confusing as there was also two Henry's as well.

I have now got the will of John Higgin that married Jennet Crawshay of Roughlee 1798 and it seems to be the correct one for my history. I also purchased another for the same area for Henry Higgin again Roughlee 2 generations earlier (1736) and he was from Wheatley Carr late of Roughlee. John & Henry seem to predominate the Higgin choice of first names.

More research needed. I am firstly going to type them up for easier reading before going any further. Watch this space.

Eileen

[Stanley]

I've had a look in my addresses but can't help with Julie. She was associated with a big website on the Bracewells in the States. If you find that you will be able to advise them. It had a topic of its own on the old site at one time. It will be in the archive.
Wendy, you don't simply 'come' to the site, you enhance it.

Have a dig in here, I think this is the site. http://www.bracewellfamily.com/

[EileenDavid]

Hello Wendy

I mentioned to watch this space.

I now have the will of John Higgin of Roughlee which is the correct one as the names of family members matches with our family history. It was made in 1789 and the will read the 11.07.1798

The only place though that is mentioned are parcels of land in Roughlee Booth which was occupied by Nicholas Jackson or his under-tenants for the yearly rent to the Lords and Lady of Pendle Forest for 3 shillings per annum. He then goes on to the use and behoof of John Crowshey of Roughlee aforesaid farmer and his heirs to stand fined and seized of the said surrendered copyhold premises and every past thereof with their and every of ther appurtenances as Feoffee in trust according to the custom of the said Forest. Crowshey was the maiden name of his wife Jennet. John Crowshey was to look after Jennet and ensure she had sufficient money to educate their children. His heir was John Higgin his eldest son. Story of our lives Richard our direct heir was the youngest he got £40.00 in 1798 plus a further £40.00 has two of his sisters had died without reaching majority. These inheritances had to be paid by John Crowshaw or his heirs and would be allowed to mortgage all or any part of the above copyhold premises surrendered in trust.

I think I have translated it correctly although not sure what stand fined and seized means?

The second will of Henry Higgin 1736 bit harder to decipher but will type it up so it is easier to read. Don't know if it was our link yet though. The will recorded late of Roughlee but then goes into Wheatley Carr. He did have a son John but will ask for advise once I know what I am talking about.

Kind regards

Eileen

[EileenDavid]

Morning Stanley

Thanks for the info, will check it out. See my posting to Wendy for were I am up to with John Higgin as an Historian hope you can help with the will. The Bracewell's are proving difficult next is the Croshey's with numerous variations in spellings. Oh the joy of geneology.

Eileen

[EileenDavid]

Hello everyone

I just want to thank you all for all your previous help and now I am throwing in another name to the equation Smith. Christopher Smith of Fulshaw Head was the trustee of Henry Higgin's will of 1736. Also Martha Smith married John Higgin of Hollin Top in 1738 at Burnley giving there address as Forest of Pendle.

Can anybody out there advise who Martha Smith's father was and whether there was a connection to Christopher Smith.

Eileen

[Stanley]

Eileen, my understanding of 'fine' is an amount paid for occupying a property. In many cases these were encroachments which in strict legal terms were unlawful but the Manorial Courts were very practical and as long as the encroachment was adding value to the land and of use to the economic life of the community the court allowed it on payment of an annual fine. Note that there was no change of ownership.
'Seized' is the term for 'in the legal possession of'. If you bought a piece of land you were said to be seized of it. I think there used to be an informal ceremony where a sod was cut by the seller and given to the buyer. As soon as the sod was seized in front of witnesses the ownership of the land passed with the sod.

[EileenDavid]

Hello Stanley

Thanks for the infor on will terminalogy it's very confusing. Henry Higgin's will has quite a few fine and seized and put in trust. I am led to believe that the trust bit was an early kind of tax evation.

This is the easiest explanation I have had. So hope you don't mind but I have copied your posting and have included it in my book.

Eileen