COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

User avatar
PanBiker
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 16395
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 13:07
Location: Barnoldswick - In the West Riding of Yorkshire, always was, always will be.

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by PanBiker »

Stanley wrote: 10 Jun 2022, 03:57 The old 15amp plugs did have the advantage that they didn't get hot if you dragged a genuine 15amps through them.
Probably because they were radially wired from the fuse box and didn't have a safety fuse on the appliance lead. Ring main plugs cut down the incidence of death by electrocution considerably, consumer units with built in trips on every circuit even more so.
Stanley wrote: 10 Jun 2022, 03:57 I found the difference when using a portable welder, the 13amp plugs don't like heavy currents!
That is a very sweeping statement. The pedant in me has to say that our current system is based on using individually fused ring main plugs and sockets they are not 13A unless you fuse them at that current, other value fuses are available. The ring itself is 30A of course. That is the point, you can fuse down to the correct level for the current required by the appliance. In your welding example you should not have been using a domestic 15A socket. it should have been a higher current cable and socket and fused accordingly at the box.

Always remember, electricity is a lot faster than you and always test with the back of one hand only. :extrawink:
Ian
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 89874
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Stanley »

"it should have been a higher current cable and socket and fused accordingly at the box."
In an ideal world yes but you would be surprised how often you aren't in an ideal world. Plus the fact that welders were sold for domestic use fitted with 13 amp plugs. I remember once helping my mate Paul at a facility in Cheshire run by the Atomic Energy Authority and the only option we had was a 13 amp plug. In the end we had to go back the following day and be wired direct into the mains by an electrician.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
PanBiker
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 16395
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 13:07
Location: Barnoldswick - In the West Riding of Yorkshire, always was, always will be.

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by PanBiker »

I think the reason that the ring main plug has become know incorrectly as a 13A plug is because that is the fusing that most of them are supplied with. Hence the majority of appliances they were fitted to were incorrectly fused!

This is mitigated somewhat nowadays as legally all new appliances have to be supplied with moulded on correctly fused ring main plugs. With the advent of safer consumer units with integral RCD trips, it is very rare for the fuse in the plug to fail (unless the fuse itself is faulty). The trips in the consumer units are so sensitive they are quicker than the fuse. Modern variants also have to have partially shrouded live and neutral pins. You could kill yourself with earlier models that weren't shrouded.

The 15A example you gave earlier would probably be as a result the Bakelite used in the plugs construction. A bit more resilient than some of the cheap plastics of the first generation cheap ring main variants.
Ian
User avatar
Big Kev
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 10903
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 20:15
Location: Foulridge

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Big Kev »

I had an RCD keep tripping when at Park Street, it took ages to find as it was a neutral fault on an undercabinet light in the kitchen. The consumer unit was a single load with the one RCD and, as it was a neutral fault, it didn't trip the breaker on the affected ring just the RCD.
Kev

Stylish Fashion Icon.
🍹
User avatar
PanBiker
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 16395
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 13:07
Location: Barnoldswick - In the West Riding of Yorkshire, always was, always will be.

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by PanBiker »

Yes they are very sensitive to imbalance between live and neutral. I know one thing, the advent of RCD's was very welcome on the service benches at work when I was in the TV trade. You had no option other than to work on live equipment, it had to be on to see the fault. :extrawink: CRT based TV's at the time had 8 KV knocking around the final anode to the CRT as well as all the HT voltages needed for valved and hybrid models. 25 KV to drive a delta configuration shadowmask tube in a colour TV.

I once came across a situation in a customers house which presented as the carpet being live! My neon mains tester was lit up like a Christmas tree laid on the carpet. Turned out to be a fault on a radiogram under the window which shared the TV antenna with a wire pulled off the coax outer to provide an antenna feed for the radio in the unit. The radiogram had a fault resulting in a live chassis. There was damp below the window and in the carpet in the corner. Was a bit like being in a minefield! :surprised:
Ian
User avatar
plaques
Donor
Posts: 8094
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by plaques »

HELP ANYBODY. Windows update strikes again.

Problem. following an update to Mrs P's laptop we are now stuck in one of those never ending loops that just takes you back to the beginning.

1) From start up the screen shows the normal full screen photo with the date & time at the left and a a couple of icons at the bottom RH corner.
2) Click and the screen changes to that asking to sign in to microsoft. This does not have the usual enter pin or code box but just the 'hand' to offer a sign in option.
3) Click. This load a window saying that the e-mail address shown doesn't exist (it won't since we move to a new one over 6 months ago) Instructed to try a different e-mail address.
4) Now enter the one we are using which has been working previously and is still working on her phone.
5) Enter password. use the same password as before.
6) Screen returns to the one shown in 1) no tool tray, no apps shown. No means of shrinking screen size.
Touch ANY key except widows logo key and off we go on the repeat cycle from 2)

Since there is no tool tray there is no Start button to get into settings etc:

Any advice gratefully accepted.
User avatar
Big Kev
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 10903
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 20:15
Location: Foulridge

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Big Kev »

Have you tried completely shutting it down (hold the power button for around 5 seconds until the screen goes black) and then power it up and try logging in again?
Kev

Stylish Fashion Icon.
🍹
User avatar
PanBiker
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 16395
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 13:07
Location: Barnoldswick - In the West Riding of Yorkshire, always was, always will be.

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by PanBiker »

What version of Windows?
Ian
User avatar
PanBiker
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 16395
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 13:07
Location: Barnoldswick - In the West Riding of Yorkshire, always was, always will be.

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by PanBiker »

Try a Google search for "Windows boot loop after update". Lots of suggestions for recovery.
Ian
User avatar
plaques
Donor
Posts: 8094
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by plaques »

Kev. Yes tried that. Its the emergency shut down technique. The normal shut down also via the icons shuts down OK but then back into the loop.

Ian Windows 10. I've done some basic searches but never used the words "Windows boot loop after update'. I'll spend some time this evening digging about. One of the odd things is that the 'easy access' icon next to the shutdown works and the magnifier increases image size but does not take it below 100% to see if the tool tray shows up.

I think Boris is behind all this :laugh5:
User avatar
PanBiker
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 16395
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 13:07
Location: Barnoldswick - In the West Riding of Yorkshire, always was, always will be.

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by PanBiker »

Seems like it's screwed some code during the update. Slip "Windows 10 boot loop error after update" in the Google search that should narrow down the results slightly.
Ian
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 89874
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Stanley »

Whatever it is Ken I wish you a quick recovery!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
plaques
Donor
Posts: 8094
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by plaques »

Kev, Ian, The enforced shut down appears to be related to a boot up loop where it consistently tried to boot up. crashes.>boots up etc. never getting out of this loop. Mine boots up OK but then prompts to sign in to Microsoft against an old email address but at the same time won't accept the any alternatives or one off codes that it recommends. Mystery.

Most of the 'change settings' instructions depend on gaining access to the start button>settings, something that is not available until you sign in. Catch 22.
User avatar
PanBiker
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 16395
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 13:07
Location: Barnoldswick - In the West Riding of Yorkshire, always was, always will be.

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by PanBiker »

Can you not start it up in "Safe Mode"? That should give you access to the start menu.

If not, Google is your friend, you wont be the first to have had this problem.
Ian
User avatar
plaques
Donor
Posts: 8094
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by plaques »

The Start up loop, part two.

Using Ian's suggestion of safe boot up I manged to get into the advanced options and thought taking it back to factory settings may be worth a try, it meant losing the extra apps but I was OK with that. This action required what looked like a full installation of windows 10. and took me back to the original start up image, The Cave and sea scape' remember that? Unfortunately the same sign up loop problem was still with me but now with no access to safe boot up, well not to me anyhow.

It looks like the only option is to take it to someone who knows what they are doing or a new laptop, its now over 5 year old and comparatively painfully slow.

At least I'll get my life back. :biggrin2:
User avatar
Wendyf
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 9424
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:26
Location: Lower Burnt Hill, looking out over Barlick

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Wendyf »

I'm sure Col would have a look at it for you Ken, I'll get him to read through your posts once he gets back from a trip to Colne.
User avatar
Big Kev
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 10903
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 20:15
Location: Foulridge

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Big Kev »

It sounds like the access with the Windows sign in rather than a boot loop. I'll have a rummage and see what I can find.
Kev

Stylish Fashion Icon.
🍹
User avatar
PanBiker
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 16395
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 13:07
Location: Barnoldswick - In the West Riding of Yorkshire, always was, always will be.

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by PanBiker »

I would stick my hand up as well but you would have to fetch it up to Hawes. You are not quite at Armageddon yet I reckon though. Over to Kev and Col. :extrawink:
Ian
User avatar
Big Kev
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 10903
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 20:15
Location: Foulridge

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Big Kev »

Have you tried removing the most recent update?

If you press and hold the shift key when you restart the machine you should get a troubleshooting option when it starts.
Troubleshoot -> Advanced Options -> Uninstall Updates.
3. Click Uninstall latest quality update.

As the issue seems to have started following the most recent update this seems a good starting point.
You did say you had access to the same Microsoft account on a smartphone. If you are being prompted to sign into a Microsoft account (rather than a PIN) on the laptop you can reset the password using the phone and then log in to the laptop with the new credentials.
Kev

Stylish Fashion Icon.
🍹
User avatar
Wendyf
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 9424
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:26
Location: Lower Burnt Hill, looking out over Barlick

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Wendyf »

Col would be happy to have a look if you can get it to him Ken. Can you pop up with it or bring it in to me at the library on Wednesday morning?
User avatar
plaques
Donor
Posts: 8094
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by plaques »

More detail. the shift + start action gave me the safe boot options as per Ian. But to clarify this statement the opening screen on boot up gave three icons at the RH screen bottom, WF fan, quick access icon, and the power symbol which allowed a 'Restart' option. it was this option that required the SHIFT> Restart to get the safe boot up. These three icons have now disappeared and now down to two, The power icon has gone.

I've tried the 'F8. window logo key+R various power down holding actions. but has I have said my will to live is exhausted. :laugh5:

any help would be appreciated I'll bring the machine and leave it . Windows 10 is still available for free download but you have to go to the start button which is missing, catch 22.
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 89874
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Stanley »

Sorry you are having such a bad time Ken. I hate it when computers start to rule your life. They are supposed to be deferential servants working unobtrusively in the background, not insane dictators!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
plaques
Donor
Posts: 8094
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by plaques »

laptop update or lack of it.

Computer now in the capable hands of Wendy's Colin. The first thing was to open it up and switch on. Its response in this battle of wits was .. well.. err.. to do nothing. Took its bat and ball home completely. Colin has some ideas which are far too complex for my level of understanding.

Whatever the outcome a big thanks to Wendy and Colin.
User avatar
Big Kev
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 10903
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 20:15
Location: Foulridge

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Big Kev »

I'm sure it'll be fine. P's 11 year old Samsung RC520 has only just had Windows removed from it. It was running Windows 10 until a few weeks ago but was getting a bit slow. Ubuntu 20 has given it a new lease of life, I have a bootable USB with the install files on it if it doesn't want to play ball with Windows anymore.
Kev

Stylish Fashion Icon.
🍹
User avatar
Wendyf
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 9424
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:26
Location: Lower Burnt Hill, looking out over Barlick

Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Wendyf »

It's on the recovery ward and doing well...
Post Reply

Return to “Technology & Communication”