Seen in the News

[Tizer]

In another thread I mentioned about the copper ore mined at Alderley Edge containing more arsenic than copper and all the contaminated waste left behind. It's the same with gold but even more so. The waste, the water, the silt in all these small gold operations in Ghana will have arsenic contamination on a grand scale...
`The illegal gold mines killing rivers and livelihoods in Ghana' LINK

[Tripps]

Big fusss at the moment about the undoubted fact that the fee paying schools are giving their students higher assessed grades than ordinary schools. Labour is worried about the 'inequality' of it all. Wasn't that the issue which brought ridicule on the head of poor old Gavin Williams when his solution to that problem last year, was to apply an 'algorithm ' to the results as a fiddle factor? That went well.

He can't win. . . .

[Stanley]

As I understand it David, yes, that is the primary concern but it has stirred up the old controversies about the disparity in funding between fee-paying private schools and government funded education. I have always said that the target of the protesters shouldn't be well funded schools but the cash starved state education, particularly primary schools.
Later, I heard ofTHIS barely credible story of a man imprisoned in the US for 51 years, mostly in solitary confinement when it seems obvious that proper investigation would have proved him innocent. Now, the justice system can't find the necessary papers to free him. Unbelievable....

[Stanley]

I'm listening to the various reports on events in Afghanistan. The governments involved, US, UK and Afghan and the spokesman of the Taliban. It's generally agreed that the latter is lying when he paints a benevolent picture of the actions of its fighters. The US and the UK send in troops to help evacuate nationals and those in danger because they helped us. This is universally seen by high ranking ex military who served there as an admission of abject failure. Kabul is silent on the latest surge of major cities which have fallen in the last 24 hours.
It's generally recognised that the Kabul government's days are numbered and the end could come very quickly.
The Afghans must feel totally betrayed. When will they trust the West again?

[Tizer]

As Victor Meldrew would say, `I just don't believe it'...This is shocking news. After all the warnings from the heath agencies, charities, politicians etc Vectura are going to sell out to Philip Morris. There's big trouble ahead!...
`Vectura board unanimously accepts Philip Morris’s controversial takeover bid' LINK

[Stanley]

Too much is being sold out taking advantage of our depressed economy.
Did you see the report about land sold for tree planting in Wales to become Carbon Offsets? Lots has been planted at Broughton for the same reason.

[Tizer]

It's a diversion from the real climate issue. By the time the trees grow big enough to have a significant impact it'll be too late. Many will fail to grow well because they're planted in the wrong place. By all means plant them because you like trees but don't kid people that `offsetting' their CO2 emissions is going to help.

[Tripps]

but don't kid people that `offsetting' their CO2 emissions is going to help.

Strangely that reminds me of the Jewish joke. Abe finally opens a tin of sardines which have been sold and resold several times - they're awful. Complains to Hymie who says - "they're not 'eating' sardines - they're 'selling' sardines. "

[Stanley]

. I love Jewish humour.....

[Tizer]

That's a good one, Tripps! When we lived in the village they had a street fair every year and the inevitable raffle. We felt obliged to buy tickets because they went to a good cause but always hoped we didn't win because the bottle of wine or box of chocolates had usually been raffled more than once.

We liked to put our money on `The Drop' where you chose a numbered square on a board. The board represented the farmer's field. You won if the cow dropped its dung in your square. They managed to do it all without the help of algorithms!

[Stanley]

THIS BBC report on Afghanistan is what I saw in the news this morning. The Guardian has just reported 'Taliban close in on Kabul as key city of Jalalabad falls.'
The Taliban are calling for the government to resign. I have an idea we are looking at the end game and a re-run of the fall of Saigon. It's a scuttle and deeply shameful.

[Stanley]

Latest news, the Taliban are in Kabul and there is fighting in the outskirts. I think we can expect very rapid movement of events.....

[Tizer]

We keep hearing the same story repeated, that the British, Russians and other foreigners have always been kicked out of Afghanistan so why have we and the Americans gone there again? It's all very well talking about the past but what are we going to do in the future? The country will become an even bigger threat than it was 20 years ago and the Taliban, ISIS, Al Qaeda and the local warlords will make it the world centre of terrorism. Afghanistan has nuclear neighbours close by - India and Pakistan never signed the nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty and have 160 and 150 nuclear warheads respectively. Iran is on its way to joining the nuclear weapons club. The Afghan terror regime could set its sights on acquiring some of these weapons.

Rory Stewart, who has lived and worked in Afghanistan told the BBC the country will now become a haven for extremist groups and terrorists: `"Everything is going wrong... schools are shutting down across the country, clinics are shutting down across the country, people are taking refuge in their homes, looting is taking place. People are trying to leave the country as refugees, so that now means we are going to have to become involved in humanitarian support. It's a situation where we created a vacuum. Pakistan, Iran, other players will start flowing into that space. It's very likely that when the Taliban take over this will be a space in which extremist groups, terrorists and others will function. So we are ending up to this decision we are going to lose an enormous amount of risk, we are going to have to spend a lot money, we are going to have to take an enormous amount of responsibility for a mess we made."

[plaques]

I think Trump took the pragmatic capitalist approach to Afghanistan. After Bush and co bombed it to smithereens there was plenty of profit to be gained from re-building it. Twenty years on the bulk of the profit has gone and the US was left with policing it at a big price. Like all commercial enterprises it was time to close down and move on. Just like pit heaps and contaminated land it becomes someone else's problem. America is far enough way not to be concerned with floods of immigrants hitting their borders. Meanwhile China will move into the vacuum and hoover up (Oh Dear) any remaining trade without being too concerned about humanitarian issues.

[Stanley]

I listened to Rory Stewart this morning and there is no doubt he is in touch, understands and is talking sense.
Is it true that Raab has said nothing? I am not in government and have no direct knowledge but that is what commentators are saying.
The latest news is dire, Kabul is on the brink of falling and the Taliban will be forming an interim government. The hope is that this will be an improvement on their actions in the past. The leadership may want to be progressive but the question is how well they can control their more radical fighters in the field. They are the ones who cause the trouble once they control a district.
The word is that the population is afraid of what comes next. I think they are right to be concerned. We have abandoned them.

[Tizer]

This latest episode of The Briefing Room is worth listening too...
`Who's supporting the Taliban?' LINK
The Taliban’s relentless march across Afghanistan continues – taking control of provincial capitals, rural districts and the financially lucrative border crossings. As the world watches on with increasing concern US President Biden has told Afghan leaders that it’s their battle to win and that they need to come together and fight for their nation.
The female Afghan politician and diplomat Shukria Barakzai warned this week that her country is experiencing a ‘human catastrophe’ and Afghanistan will provide a safe haven for militants, which will cause the world huge problems. There’s also the prospect of a huge refugee crisis. But how are the Taliban succeeding and who’s helping them? David Aaronovitch is joined in The Briefing Room by:
Laurel Miller, Director of International Crisis Group’s Asia Programme
Ashley Jackson, Co-Director, Centre for the Study of Armed Groups
Ahmed Rashid, Pakistani journalist and author

[Tripps]

The takeover of Kabul will be far from peaceful I'd say.

Andrew Neil says there is gunfire at the airport in Kabul. Unorthodox sources of news seem to be the best in these times. Take your pick whether to immediately believe them. Check them later. I have just seen a twitter video of scores of people murdered, bodies still lying in the street, by the incoming Taliban.

Pierre Trudeaux has just said all Canadians will be evacuated, and that he stands in solidarity with the LGBTQ community in Afghanistan.
That's good to know.

[chinatyke]

The takeover of Kabul will be far from peaceful I'd say.
Pierre Trudeaux has just said all Canadians will be evacuated, and that he stands in solidarity with the LGBTQ community in Afghanistan.
That's good to know.

Queer thing for him to say in these circumstances.

[Stanley]

THIS is the reality. While countries are making joint statements Kabul has fallen, the President has fled the country and the Taliban are in charge but not yet control. Scenes at the airport reminiscent of Saigon as all who can scramble to get on planes and get out.
Forget organised repatriation of those who helped us and are now in danger. We faffed about wasting time and now the time has gone. We will be struggling to get UK citizens out, never mind anyone else.
Total chaos and shaming.

[Tizer]

It was good to hear John Bolton on radio this morning quite rightly saying it wasn't Trump or Biden who is to blame - both of them share the blame. The US intelligence community seems to have completely ignored what the newspaper journalists have been reporting this year from their own direct contact with Taliban and Afghan Army people.They've been saying all along that Trump's Doha talks were simply a distraction that the Taliban were using to gain time.

[Whyperion]

Its a problem when the immediate reaction to anything is send in the army. And more so if it is an attempt to change hearts and minds (to coin a phrase). Much of the world appears not keen on what we would call the present western form of democracy, and imposing it wont work - particularly if local partners , that are at least, not the enemy, are no friend of such democracy either. If you wanted to change a country maybe send in all the female personnel, as medics, teachers, and so on, maybe after 20 years of a generation things might become more open, but difficult when a major interpretation of the local religion takes a different view on the role and importance of women.

Of course we have the situation in Plymouth, I suppose the question is what are the police powers in granting a shotgun licence ? Is it confirming (how) that the applicant is a fit and proper person, or one of 'good character' . Both have been tests for various licences in society but demonstrating a negative is only avalible if evidence is sought, if its ignored, then thats a problem.

[Stanley]

I listened to Bolton as well Peter and thought he was balanced but also extremely angry.
I have been criticised in the past by some for always going back to the history but time and time again Afghanistan has proved to be the grave of imperial and outside national ambition. In the 19th century it was Imperial Britain fearing the rise of the Russian Bear and them using Afghanistan as a route to threaten India. Have a read of THIS account of the British retreat from Kabul in 1842.
It starts: "The inhospitable terrain, the unforgiving and unpredictable weather, fractured tribal politics, turbulent relations with the local population and armed civilians: these are just some of the issues that led to Britain’s downfall in Afghanistan."
Does that sound familiar?

[Tizer]

Yes but all that history doesn't help the modern Afghan people going under Taliban rule again or the rest of the world which will have to put up with the country once again being the favourite home for worldwide terrorists. What should we be doing to help the Afghan people and to prevent a dangerous rise in terrorism?
----------------------------------------------------

`Afghanistan: Cardiff artist's sadness at Taliban takeover' LINK

[Stanley]

It's not meant to help the Afghans Peter but to give us some clues about why it went wrong and what to avoid.
I understand the Afghan problems and no doubt there will be some repression this time round, leopards can't change their spots. However, there are signs, like the fact they actually gave a news conference yesterday, that there may have been changes in their attitude.
I think it was Ian who mentioned the orderly Russian retreat 1988/89. One of the main reasons it was orderly was that there was a Russian installed, Communist government in power until 1990. The Taliban may have noted the fact that the best way to get security for themselves is moderation under a government which includes some of the old politicians. Everything they have done points that way but has been ignored. Easier to panic about the past.
Yes, get on with the repatriations but avoid other actions until we actually know what we are dealing with.

[Tizer]

China, Russia and Pakistan have already stated their recognition of the Taliban's leadership of Afghanistan. We can see which way things are moving now. The Indian government will be getting the jitters.