Coronavirus (Covid19) Corner

[Big Kev]

I will pass on your comments to my friends and relatives who are nurses in the NHS, I'm sure they'll be thrilled.
I find it hard to criticise those fighting against a virus with no, current, known cure.
Should we also be criticising them for the number of cancer related deaths then?

[plaques]

China you are talking utter rubbish and you know it. Put a bullet into someones brain and the odds are they will die irrespective of the treatment you give them.

Listen to New York governor Andrew Cuomo last night. A long (50 mins) interview but this man talks sense. Cuomo. New York is a bit like the UK but with no integrated health service. Started too late in the game to stop excessive deaths but then took extreme lockdown action. The death rates in New York are dropping to such an extent that taking them out of the total USA figures the rest of the country still shows a rise. Something that Trump doesn't mention. Cuomo explains why he is taking certain actions and has the data to back it up. We should take a leaf out of his book.

[Tizer]

One thing that strikes me is what a good job the government are making of NHS propaganda. Most people think the NHS is doing a marvellous job and will stand and applaud them. Look at the truth! Half the Covid patients in intensive care die, and 1 in 7 of hospital patients, or 14% of hospitalised cases. Hardly figures to give you confidence in their performance, they are among the worst in the world.

The NHS is doing as well if not better than health services in other countries. A 50% death rate of covid patients in intensive care units (ICUs) is not out of line compared with other countries. The virus is dangerous and most of the people going into ICUs with covid are already in bad health or in the very vulnerable groups. Read this article for example: `Mortality rate of COVID-19 patients on ventilators' LINK

Stanley, the government is not `doing a bad job interfering and under-funding' the NHS. It's doing it's best in a very difficult, unprecedented crisis and the limiting factor is not under-funding at the present time but the non-availability on the world market of suitable equipment and the reduced numbers of staff available. Everywhere in the world communications and supplies are disrupted. Give them a chance!

[Marilyn]

Believe what you will.
Live in your “fools paradise”.

[Big Kev]

Believe what you will.
Live in your “fools paradise”.

Gloom and doom back again, sadly we're not all as perfect as Australia...

[Marilyn]

Australians have always been your comrades.
We stand respectfully in thoughts of your dead.
Believe that. We love you guys.
( hey! I was born in Barlick!)

[chinatyke]

Kev, I was not criticizing NHS workers, I know they are doing their best in difficult circumstances. I was pointing out once again the elephant in the room.

[Pluggy]

Is the elephant in the room, the fact that it started in China or the Chinese government played down / covered up the serious nature of the disease ?

[Marilyn]

Oh...here we go. Let’s finally have the discussion then.

[Cathy]

Oh Kevin. So disappointed. Just so you know.

Ethnic Background of Australians
July 18 2019
British. 67.4%
Irish. 8.7%
Italian. 3.8%
German. 3.7%
Chinese. 3.6%
Aboriginal and Native Australian. 3%
Indian. 1.7%
Greek. 1.6%
Dutch. 1.2%
Other 5.3% - New Zealand
Philippines
Vietnam
Sth. Africa
Malaysia
Scotland

We have been and always will be very English.

[Pluggy]

Just remember who has the biggest ban hammer........

I don't often throw my weight around on here but I'm that way out today. I'm hardly a UK government cheerleader but I don't believe expats should be the ones sticking the boot in. Some of us live here.

[Cathy]

I wasn’t referring to the Coronavirus and what you are all going thru. I wonder why?
Marilyn is back two minutes and for the second time she gets jumped on.
Everyone else is having their say and putting their opinions forward.
This is too much. If you want me gone, so be it, but think about it.

[chinatyke]

Is the elephant in the room, the fact that it started in China or the Chinese government played down / covered up the serious nature of the disease ?

Bats are everywhere Stephen.

[Sue]

This has gone political again. Thus thats me out of this forum.

[Sue]

Politics is about opinion’ anyone can find a fact to support their own opinion. We have already discussed this with regards to journalists. I though this forum was looking for solutions and answers not opinion. And while i am about it, this morning I have received the best NHS care I could have asked for in the Circumstances. I could not be happier to be back home, feeling safe . But please keep this section to science of the disease and not blame. Put those discussions elsewhere. Until then, see you later alligator as they say

[Cathy]

I’m really upset, we are ‘all’ holding our breath for humankind.

[Sue]

One thing that strikes me is what a good job the government are making of NHS propaganda. Most people think the NHS is doing a marvellous job and will stand and applaud them. Look at the truth! Half the Covid patients in intensive care die, and 1 in 7 of hospital patients, or 14% of hospitalised cases. Hardly figures to give you confidence in their performance, they are among the worst in the world.

The NHS is doing as well if not better than health services in other countries. A 50% death rate of covid patients in intensive care units (ICUs) is not out of line compared with other countries. The virus is dangerous and most of the people going into ICUs with covid are already in bad health or in the very vulnerable groups. Read this article for example: `Mortality rate of COVID-19 patients on ventilators' LINK

Stanley, the government is not `doing a bad job interfering and under-funding' the NHS. It's doing it's best in a very difficult, unprecedented crisis and the limiting factor is not under-funding at the present time but the non-availability on the world market of suitable equipment and the reduced numbers of staff available. Everywhere in the world communications and supplies are disrupted. Give them a chance!

Well said Tiz. I have listened to that many interviews around the world about ventilator use, I never realised world wide the chance of survival at that stage was so low. I do believe it is a UK doctor that has come up with an alternative to putting some one A ventilator. It was on the news two or three weeks ago. Also how many other countries set up extra hospitals to help. I am pretty sure France didn’t . How can you compare data when not every country has used the same data. At the request of transparency care homes are now included in ours but they aren’t in many others. Real data is meaningless, it has to be percentages, things change a bit then. Scientists compare like with like.

Why no dentists in France, no PPE from the first week in March, does that sound familiar.

[Stanley]

Sorry if this upsets anyone but the NHS is the envy of the world. True, it has problems and despite Tiz telling me off, it's been underfunded in historical terms for 20 years. Successive attempts to 'improve it' have largely been managerial reorganisations and haven't helped. I'd recommend anyone who doubts these matters to read MD in Private Eye who has been talking consistent common sense for years and is well respected.
I am eternally grateful for the NHS and the pioneers who initiated the concept in the 1940s. Look back at the history, read Beveridge and recognise the weight that was lifted off the backs of ordinary people. By far the greatest amount of treatment is successful and we should remember this. I would not swap for any other health service I have seen operating.
One last thought, half the desperately ill people admitted to ICU are surviving and two thirds of the other Covid19 patients have similar outcomes. This in the face of a vicious and complicated condition that we don't fully understand. Not a bad record.

[Sue]

I’m really upset, we are ‘all’ holding our breath for humankind.

Agreed so let the scientists find solutions and keep the politics till later.

[Marilyn]

I don’t give a hoot about politics, so I have no barrow to push there.
I don’t give a hoot about the NHS, so I have no barrow to push there.
I don’t give a hoot about the origins of this virus, so I have no barrow to push there either.
None of these things are important. We all have our finest brains working on a vaccine...and I think there will be a partially effective vaccine soon. I say partially effective, because I can see this virus adapting the longer it is about.
What if it changes just enough to live longer, become more freely airborne, can colonise in cooling towers/air shafts/air conditioning units? The thought has often crossed my mind. What if it is in the most contained state it will ever be in right now?
Put that in perspective against how well we are doing with this virus right now.
It’s no good getting snappy with each other. That only serves to show how stressed, how angry and how powerless people are feeling. Understandable. But we have a way to go with this thing yet.
I’m delighted to say that Australia is heading out of lockdown now. It is a 3 month plan, starting this weekend. We will not be opening international borders, except possibly a link exclusively with our nearest friends, New Zealand. No date has been put on that yet, but both countries are keen to resume tourism at some point.

[Tizer]

I say partially effective, because I can see this virus adapting the longer it is about.

All the infectious virus types undergo mutation to some extent as they reproduce in their hosts. We have to remember that a virus particle doesn't get into a host, reproduce to make more particles, then leave the host to infect someone else. It's on a suicide mission. It enters the host, gets into one of the host's cells (lung cell in the case of covid-19) and then sacrifices its RNA to the host cell's manufacturing system to act as a template to make more of the same RNA. This new virus RNA is then packaged in individual new virus particles and exported from the cell and back out via the respiratory system to infect more hosts. Mutation can occur during the process and some of the new particles will have slightly different RNA. Most of these mutated particles will be unfit for purpose and fail to infect hosts but occasionally one will prove to be more effective and then it's own future offspring will come to dominate. Evolution in action. This is why we have to keep modifying influenza vaccines from year to year. The same will apply to a covid-9 vaccine.

What if it changes just enough to live longer, become more freely airborne, can colonise in cooling towers/air shafts/air conditioning units?

It can change in various ways, including better survival rate of the individual particles outside the host but it can't `colonise' anything because it can't reproduce outside the host.

[plaques]

Marilyn, Love the word 'Hoot' very Australian.

The latest gizmo to hit the news is the smart phone contact tracing 'app'. Leaving aside the debate on infringement of liberties just think of the numbers that could be involved. Example. 'A' comes in close proximity with B, C, D, who in turn contact another 3 people, a typical exponential expansion. Multiple this by the number of large towns and several people in each town and the numbers become enormous. if you sent a text message to everyone in this loop it would result in a large proportion of the population being worried to death that they may have caught the virus. Not a wise thing to do. If you say nothing then its purpose becomes more data that may be useful the next time round. So what is its real purpose?

[Marilyn]

P..I haven’t downloaded the Ap. Hubby has ( god bless him...it seemed important...and I just shook my head in disbelief but he found it important...and I respect his decision to feel that way inclined). We are always together. Never more than 20 feet apart EVER...so I must be covered too (?)
It became a bit tedious for me when he discovered his two year old phone couldn’t deal with loading the Ap. So he bought a new phone! That was a step too far for me, because he has struggles with new technology.
It has been a hard week, bringing him up to speed with the new phone.
( gosh! Is it “wine o’clock....?)

[Marilyn]

“Colonise” was the wrong word to use. I really meant live long enough to be distributed via...
Just read on BBC news that people arriving on flights to the UK ( except from Ireland) will have to self isolate for a fortnight as from the end of the month.
We started that 8 weeks ago. Then we shut our borders entirely. Then we shut internal borders and could not travel from state to state within the country ( apart from goods and freight).
Those restrictions remain in place as we emerge from lockdown. We can now travel within our own state.
I really can’t understand why UK is so far behind with all this. ( it is obvious that one of the major transmissions comes from travellers and people moving freely about without mandatory isolation.)

[PanBiker]

I really can’t understand why UK is so far behind with all this.

That's easy Maz, our government is inept in it's handling of the pandemic. Wish I didn't have to say that but that is the truth of the matter. The pandemic broke here a number of weeks behind China and mainland Europe so we had track records to refer to which they chose to ignore. I can come to no other conclusion and that is not simply party politics driven.