Coronavirus (Covid19) Corner

[Marilyn]

Hubby has the Australian App. This will only alert you if you have been in contact with an active case of Coronavirus for more than 15 mins. As far as I know it does not show graphs or local hotspots.

Another thing we have done here is ban “hot desks”...such as in a situation where you have one desk that multiple people visit to conduct business. Such places like large car servicing/retail premises. Customer comes in and a service attendant uses the hot desk to serve you, and both you and they move on.
If you are in a “hot desk” situation....don’t go to work!
( mind you...hate to say it...but think of the NHS)

[Tizer]

It must be the closeness of long shifts on the production line, combined with sharing communal lunch rooms/toilets etc.

Meat packing plants - I think you've got the answer there Maz. The virus doesn't make a choice about where it goes, it's not really alive and it can't move, reproduce or even metabolise by itself. It's just the tiniest bit of RNA, protein and lipid which has evolved to stick to receptors on animal lung cells. Where it gets to depends on where the animal host goes. Whether it survives outside the host depends on temperature, humidity, the type of surface it lands on, whether it's in a blob of mucus that protects it etc. Really it's all down to human behaviour in this pandemic - the virus goes where we take it.

The hospitals have a lot of part-time admin staff who have to share desks as they come and go on shifts. My cousin is there now and she has to wipe everything down with disinfectant before and after use.

[Marilyn]

Well when you think about it even McDonalds and every supermarket use “hot desks”. Possibly even doctor and dental surgeries, hotels, pubs, and even fish and chip shops!
Just be aware of them and take note of how many are using the same till or computer as you wait to be served.

[Tizer]

P , there is the idea, scaremongering or otherwise, that the research into wild viruses might have led to the outbreak due to a failure in the control, unfortunately we cannot tell, nor if it was accident, or design. There is a link I think on the BBC (could have been guardian) on researchers, I think related to the oxford university group , getting samples around the worlds as yet less explored places, to some extent I would say leave well alone, and humans keep out (at least in our western trash the environment terms and teams).

Don't get taken in by the conspiracy theories claiming the Wuhan Virus Institute accidentally (or even deliberately) released covid-19. They do research on coronaviruses because those viruses are a danger to health in the wet markets and they are trying to better understand and control outbreaks. The Institute is an international top level biosecurity laboratory and the staff where trained in France at the best lab there. Non-chinese scientists collaborate closely with them. If you go back to the recent radio 4 Inside science programmes you'll find one in great detail about the lab. British scientists have been working there since it started and know the staff well.

Scientists have to work with dangerous microorganisms so that we can figure out how to deal with them if ever it becomes necessary.

[Marilyn]

When you think about it....just how much of a “hot desk” is an ambulance bed at present!!!!?

[Marilyn]

hubby has just advised me we are down to ONE single active case of Coronavirus in South Australia. I say that with some wariness, as we came out of lockdown on Saturday and had Mother’s Day on Sunday. I would prefer to give it another fortnight now before stripping naked and dancing around a flag pole...

[plaques]

by Cathy » 12 May 2020, 07:06

I popped a post on the Coronavirus Topic about how some of us might find it a bit hard to return to ‘normal’ when we are allowed to.
It was swamped by other posts and not referred to. . Never mind.

Sweden's approach to the covid-19 virus was not a total lockdown but strict rules and guidelines and relying heavily on common sense, re: people are not stupid. The one main point the professor made at the start of the interview was that nobody had given a thought to the fact that if you imposed a total lockdown how do you get out of it? This is where we are now, how do you get out of it. My own thoughts are that each country has now its own unique problems. I genuinely believe that most people in the UK are not stupid and will carry on taking action to protect themselves. Some of course are as thick as two planks and will put the rest in danger. A lot will be forced into returning to work purely for financial reason knowing that they could be at risk in doing so. Perhaps this is a case for the government to support unions or workshop committees in getting the conditions to an acceptable level. All I can say is that personally I will carry on keeping away but I'm in the fortunate position that my circumstances allow it.

[Marilyn]

I have no problem returning to normal, but you do suddenly get overwhelmed by the number of people about, more traffic about, and NOISE that you lived with before of course, but now ears have to readjust to the sounds of traffic in particular.

[Tizer]

The engineers at the Institute of Making (part of University College London) have put up this web page about face masks. I of M Under the section `Can I make a mask without sewing?' they provide a link to this video: LINK Note that this advice is aimed at people who don't have Sally's abilities to sew! Anyone can make the mask with only a pair of scissors. It's not perfect but better than nothing.

[Cathy]

In my case, I’m thinking about using buses (one person per bench seat, will they put extra buses on during peak-time), the bus interchange, lifts (one person per trip, in a public building?). Being surrounded by workers who have had to continue working thru the Coronavirus, will I be mentally slow? I know that mentally and physically I won’t be up to the same speed that I was pre- Coronavirus.
And noises, traffic, people moving quickly around me, phones ringing (lots of them), and people wanting to have the same conversation over and over.
And when I was last there, the place was crawling with construction workers, It will still be a work in progress
The adjusting is not going to be easy.

[Tripps]

Politics bit-

The guidance for the gradual return to 'normal' show that they are simply unworkable I'd say. The queue to board a large jet would be 1 km long, and just 15 persons per underground carriage is just fanciful, and as for 'one at a time' in lifts - I don't think it will work. Still - Grant Shapps has big plans to extend cycle lanes so that's OK then - but wait - the official advce is to go by car - or it was yesterday.

I had the unworthy thought that 'they' (Cummings) know it's all impossible to do, so the public won't do it; and thus by stealth (or nudge), we will return to the original policy of shielding the vulnerable, and letting the strong cope with it.

Interesting chap Mr Shapps / Green. From his wikipedia page.

Under the name Michael Green, Shapps had offered customers a "get-rich-quick scheme" costing $497, and promised customers a "toolkit" that would earn them $20,000 in 20 days, provided they followed its instructions. Very sound Tory I'd say.

*******************************************
Science bit:-

Here's a bit of encouraging news - for a change. Some clever people were educated at Liverpool University. I've noticed that the death numbers have been going down at about roughly the same rate for all the badly performing countries such as Spain Italy and France. Is it possible it is just fading out? I hope so - I badly need a haircut. Feel free to ignore.

The other figure of great relevance is Sir Patrick Vallance’s suggestion that early results from antibody tests show that around four per cent of the population have already had Covid-19 and are likely to have built up some resistance to it. This figure rises to ten per cent in London and both, he says, reflect a five-week lag. A long way from the 60 per cent which Professor Chris Whitty has suggested would be needed for ‘herd immunity’ from the disease – although the London figure is not far off the level required for herd immunity, according to modelling by the Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine last week. That suggested that only 10 to 20 per cent would need to have been infected before the epidemic started to fade away of its own accord.

[Sue]

by Cathy » 12 May 2020, 07:06

I popped a post on the Coronavirus Topic about how some of us might find it a bit hard to return to ‘normal’ when we are allowed to.
It was swamped by other posts and not referred to. . Never mind.



In that respect I have found coming home very difficult. The noise level is so much greater, our neighbour, a builder is building his own extension...say no more. I went to the post office today, its the first time I have been in a shop apart from a pharmacist in 8 weeks. I was not happy. We followed it up with a long isolated walk in the hills.

B5EF6EEE-721A-489E-9AC9-99AB7E7EDEF2.png

Tripps I noticed that about the UK graph weeks ago. If its any consolation in their last week of lockdown it really dropped dramatically

[Tripps]

I appreciate the reduction is probably due to the lockdown - all have done it, and as you found out, the French one was quite strict. There's a bit of 'wishful thinking' on my part.

I live adjacent to a busy railway. They said I wouldn't notice the noise after a few days, and they were right. It hasn't bothered me at all, but now it's on Sunday service, and the trains are largely empty. Strangely - I miss the noise of the trains a bit.

[Whyperion]

Politics bit-

"The guidance for the gradual return to 'normal' show that they are simply unworkable I'd say. The queue to board a large jet would be 1 km long, and just 15 persons per underground carriage is just fanciful, and as for 'one at a time' in lifts - I don't think it will work. Still - Grant Shapps has big plans to extend cycle lanes so that's OK then - but wait - the official advice is to go by car - or it was yesterday. "

Manchester wants to do things to cycleroutes, but the two web pages of detail and strategy are currently circular linked in the detail so I have no idea what they want.

" by stealth (or nudge), we will return to the original policy of shielding the vulnerable, and letting the strong cope with it."

( - yep )

" Is it possible it is just fading out? I hope so - I badly need a haircut. Feel free to ignore."

- I dont think so, the lockdown management has been much the same (France, Spain, Italy little stronger in keeping kids in and restricting excercise, the UK to date has been a little more reasonable but the hospital cases pattern would indicate that the number and type of serious infections in the UK have risen more than if the stronger restrictions had been applied in the same way.

The other figure of great relevance is Sir Patrick Vallance’s suggestion that early results from antibody tests show that around four per cent of the population have already had Covid-19 and are likely to have built up some resistance to it. This figure rises to ten per cent in London and both, he says, reflect a five-week lag.

" I had guessed yesterday that give or take in the UK the incidences of infection were around 6million or ten percent. possibly a little high but not far off.

[Whyperion]

It must be the closeness of long shifts on the production line, combined with sharing communal lunch rooms/toilets etc.

Meat packing plants - I think you've got the answer there Maz. The virus doesn't make a choice about where it goes, it's not really alive and it can't move, reproduce or even metabolise by itself. It's just the tiniest bit of RNA, protein and lipid which has evolved to stick to receptors on animal lung cells. Where it gets to depends on where the animal host goes. Whether it survives outside the host depends on temperature, humidity, the type of surface it lands on, whether it's in a blob of mucus that protects it etc. Really it's all down to human behaviour in this pandemic - the virus goes where we take it.

The hospitals have a lot of part-time admin staff who have to share desks as they come and go on shifts. My cousin is there now and she has to wipe everything down with disinfectant before and after use.

& related to your reply to me.
Perhaps the interesting point though , is that despite supposed good hygiene, why are (Corona)viruses still spreading, aside from one needs 100% control- anything less exposes a weak spot, - one would have thought that other (airborne) infections would also be falling at a rate too with improved cleaning and there is some indication that this is occurring.

With respect to the receptors it is interesting the photo or artistic impressions that papers , tv and websites have used. There appear to be various shapes on effectively the Corona 'Keys' (effectively two, one to enter the body and into the cell under cloaking, one to move within the cell and one to move (or be moved to as food or similar source) to the nucleus, but some have shown the same shape, now is that shape important and is it a physical key or a chemical (protein, enzyme, or carbon chain key ?)

[plaques]

From our front garden I see the same people roughly at the same time just having a stroll out or taking their dogs for a walk. Saw one elderly lady casually walking up the centre of the road as though cars didn't exist which for all practical purposes they don't. The other evening I was outside my prison walls when a young chap and his dog passed me on the opposite side of the road. I said "enjoying your walk". he said "you know I've just walked 1½ miles from our house and you are the second person I've seen since I've been out and the first I've talked to on my walks for days". Somehow people seem reluctant to even acknowledge your presence almost afraid that just by talking they will fall foul of the virus. Strange times.

[Sue]

With respect to the receptors it is interesting the photo or artistic impressions that papers , tv and websites have used. There appear to be various shapes on effectively the Corona 'Keys' (effectively two, one to enter the body and into the cell under cloaking, one to move within the cell and one to move (or be moved to as food or similar source) to the nucleus, but some have shown the same shape, now is that shape important and is it a physical key or a chemical (protein, enzyme, or carbon chain key ?)


Viruses, or should I say virions don’t have a food source, all they do is reproduce. I am not sure of the exact mechanism of entry here or form of the receptors here I would have to read up, but we are taking biochemical shapes, and they are known and do have a specific name. I read about it whilst still in France but with a rather deflected mind at the time

The receptors on the surface of the cells are usually protein in nature but it is usually a specific part of the protein that is chemically recognised like a lock and key fit. This shape is VERY. Important. I think , but don’t quote me on it that the virus deactivates the immune system to allow it to enter the cell. In the cell the virus takes over the protein manufacture system of the cell, or host as it now is. This is where the Nucleic acid or genetic code of the virus comes in. It takes over the protein production mechanism blocking the host cells own DNA/RNA action so that the host cell now uses the virus genetic code to make the virus proteins own that make up its structure as well as replicating the nucleic acid of the virus itself . The new nucleic acid and proteins reassemble to form new viruses, each cell will contain millions of them. That is the mechanism for all viruses although it is far more complex than that involving numerous biochemistry reactions, and enzymes which if I did know them I no longer do. The Host cell eventually dies as all its own functions have been stopped this death releases the virus to infect other cells it can attach to.

On the plus side, the activity of the virus distorts the host cell causing what I seem to remember is called the cytopathological effect. The bodies immune system will recognise these as non self cells, ie they don’t belong and this triggers part of the immune system reaction to destroy tge. And the viruses inside. Some of the immune reaction is to the virus itself and the surface receptors. I think the vaccine research involves blocking the receptors on the virus or preventing the replication process in the cell but I think there are other more novel approaches.

I do not proclaim to be an expert here on this and my memory is a little vague on specifics but I can do some extra research or Tiz may now. He is more up to date on modern research ideas.
https://www.immunology.org/public-infor ... eplication
https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/10/cor ... -receptor/
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-res ... treatments

This one is hard going
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 8220300827

[plaques]

Interesting stuff Sue. I've only got through the first two links but this attracted my attention.

Understanding how the new coronavirus exploits ACE2 is powerful information — but scientists haven’t agreed on what it ultimately means. As recently as March, more ACE2 was thought to be a risk factor for people with Covid-19. The French health ministry even warned against prescribing non-steroidal anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen because those drugs are thought to increase the number of ACE2 receptors on cells.

I read this in the early stages of the outbreak but no one has mentioned it since. Has it fallen foul of big Pharma or is it no longer considered relevant?

[Stanley]

All beyond my pay grade! I am taking note of more simple matters. Just listened to More or Less on R4. Very interesting stuff on the stats but the bit that caught my attention was a segment about Vitamin D. Some interesting evidence which points towards Vitamin D being a very good influence but no killer evidence. What they did say comforted me because of course I hit the Cod Liver Oil every morning so I think I am catered for!

[Tizer]

Interesting stuff Sue. I've only got through the first two links but this attracted my attention.
Understanding how the new coronavirus exploits ACE2 is powerful information — but scientists haven’t agreed on what it ultimately means. As recently as March, more ACE2 was thought to be a risk factor for people with Covid-19. The French health ministry even warned against prescribing non-steroidal anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen because those drugs are thought to increase the number of ACE2 receptors on cells.
I read this in the early stages of the outbreak but no one has mentioned it since. Has it fallen foul of big Pharma or is it no longer considered relevant?

There seems nothing more to add at present. This summarises the situation...
`On 18 March 2020, the European Medicines Agency (EMA) issued a press release stating there is currently no scientific evidence establishing a link between ibuprofen and worsening of COVID‑19. The EMA is monitoring the situation closely and will review any new information that becomes available on this issue in the context of the pandemic. A CEBM review on non-steroidal anti-inflammatories (NSAIDs) in acute respiratory infection(not including COVID-19) concluded that NSAIDs do not significantly reduce total symptoms or duration of respiratory infections.' NHS

[Tripps]

This just about sums it up. . . .

Vague magazine.png

[Tizer]

Have a listen to this half-hour World Service programme. It's Chinese doctors and Chinese journalists relating their experiences through interpreters for us in English. Most of them had to be given false names because they believed they would be in danger from the government if their true identities were revealed. It shows how much was going on to counter the virus outbreak before the Chinese public knew about it. For example, the man travelling on a train that passed through Wuhan. The medical professional sitting next to him put on a mask while the train passed through the city. She, like other medics, knew about the virus but the public hadn't been told. Medical staff and journalists believe the virus outbreak was not made public because there was a major political Congress in Wuhan in mid-January and it would be embarrassing for the politicians to have to admit what was happening.

`Wuhan: The beginning of coronavirus Covid-19: The Documentary Podcast' LINK
`It is week one of the coronavirus. In this critical time, decisions were made that set the entire trajectory of the crisis. The program uses exclusive interviews with a cast of characters who were on the ground at the hospital in the very beginning. Their stories, combined with striking audio from the heat of the moment, brings listeners into the critical turning-points that defined the crisis to come. We meet Dr Li, the head of the ICU in Wuhan and one of the first doctors to intubate a patient with Covid-19. As his hospital became overrun with patients, he and his colleagues debated just how contagious the virus was, what should be told to the general populace, and the proper government response.'

[Tizer]

Thank goodness we don't live in America...
`Michigan closes down capitol in face of death threats from armed protesters against Governor Whitmer' Newsweek
`On Thursday, Michigan closed down its capitol building and canceled its legislative session after online death threats made against Governor Gretchen Whitmer. The threats were made by protesters who planned to attend a "Judgement Day" protest at the capitol. The protesters ostensibly oppose Whitmer's statewide shutdown orders meant to slow the spread of coronavirus. Dozens of posts in private invitation-only Facebook groups called for Whitmer to be hanged, lynched, shot, beaten or beheaded. One suggested crowdfunding sources to hire a hitman to kill her. "We haven't had any bloodshed yet, but the populous [sic] is counting to three, and yesterday was day two," wrote Dave Meisenheimer in a 385,000-member Facebook group called Michiganders Against Excessive Quarantine. "Next comes the watering the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants," he concluded. Numerous other posts referred to Whitmer as a "Nazi," "spawn of the devil," "wicked witch," "Soros puppet," "baby killer tyrant" and more, according to the Detroit Metro Times. Others promised to attend upcoming protests "armed to the death" and without face masks, threatening to attack any police officers who dared confront them.'

`On April 29, President Donald Trump offered support for anti-lockdown protesters by tweeting, "LIBERATE MICHIGAN." Trump defended the tweets, saying that some state's social distancing policies are "too tough."'

[Tripps]

I just scuttled to the post box - I've just finished week nine of isolation. Nearly no one else out, just a few cyclists, and very few cars. However a couple approached at the cross road, and immediately changed direction and crossed the road. Very thoughtful - I don't think we got to within the 2m limit. However I noticed that even at that range and in the open, I got a slight whiff of the lady's perfume. Got me to thinking - if perfume can travel instantly to get up my nose over that distance, perhaps a virus can as well?

Some things here don't add up. India has a vast population, and ideal conditions for virus spread including crowded housing, multi generation households, and perhaps some genetic pre- disposition, yet they have in total less than 10% of our level of deaths from this virus.

[Stanley]

Tiz,
David, Love the use of the word 'Scuttled'. Perfect.