POLITICS CORNER

[Tizer]

Its evident this country and even all the political parties are split down the middle. Where to from here. If Boris resigns who next. The distrust in all parties and politicians has never been higher...

I agree, Sue. Both main parties are broken, not fit for purpose, and I can't see them recovering, certainly not for a long time. Like many people, I wouldn't vote for either of them now. I will vote in a General Election, but for one of the other parties. As of right now if I was voting I'd go for LibDems. Stuff party loyalties, that's what has got us into such a bad state, too many people continuing to support parties and being blind to their problems and dysfunction. Time for a change, a big one. Let's get it over with. Bring it on!

[Sue]

Totally agree Tiz. Unfortunately I think the votes will get spread very thinly throughout all the other options with no clear winner. Would it result in a coalition government, or should we start to count the number of votes cast and not the seats gained? Proportional representation has never been popular because those that normally win would probably lose.

[Stanley]

P, you could well be right. My comment was driven by my desire to see the buck stop where it belongs, squarely in the lap of the Conservative and Unionist Party who have all along treated the matter of Brexit as an internal party matter. I still want that to happen but as you say, there may be another way.
The Supreme Court decision is welcome and explosive. Many matters are now blown wide open, the resolution of these is going to modify the way we govern in future. I shall be watching and listening very carefully.
One thing is obvious, our 'unwritten constitution' is a lot stronger than I thought. It may well be that it gets written down after this and gets even stronger.

[Tripps]

Well - that didn't take long Lady Hale's Spider Brooch

[Stanley]

Lovely! I like the fact that a donation goes to Shelter.
I suppose we all watch and wait to see what the next act of the pantomime will be. My thought this morning was that Cameron, like all PMs wanted to leave a legacy. He has succeeded in Spades. This is perhaps the best example of the Law of unintended Consequences we have ever seen. I forecasted that they would happen after Brexit but never imagined anything like this during the preliminaries.
Meanwhile, have a look at THIS. Nancy Pelosi announces the beginning of formal proceedings to impeach Trump, Johnson's 'best friend' at the moment. You couldn't make it up. (Did you see his smile when Johnson said the NHS wasn't for sale at the news conference yesterday?)
We have noted in the past the incredulity of commentators in other countries watching Brexit. What must they be thinking now?
Later, I have just been listening to Michael Gove ducking and diving, doing everything he could to avoid saying that the Supreme Court was correct in their judgement. If this is how they mean to go on it's sickening.

[Sue]

I think that is exactly what they will do, go on as if nothing has happened.

[Stanley]

I agree with you Sue, I believe that is their intention. So the only modification I would make is that they will try to go on in that fashion but as things stand at the moment they are going to find this difficult or even impossible because of the locks that Parliament has on the government now.
One other thing that occurs to me is that so often it is the unexpected that makes the difference. I am thinking about what the attitude of his own members have of him. Even they must be realising that the 'Boris Bounce' has evaporated, as we all said it would. How do they feel about their darling now? Remember that the Tory conference starts on Sunday and it is not going to be a triumphal procession as they hoped and expected three weeks ago. Let's see what happens in the next few days.

[Tizer]

Well - that didn't take long Lady Hale's Spider Brooch

There should be a newspaper headline this morning: `Grammar school lass from Yorkshire corners bandit PM'
But at least we can read more about her here: `Lady Hale: Five things you might not know about the Supreme Court president' LINK

[PanBiker]

Attorney General getting a grilling at the moment. Some big words that I have never heard of being traipsed out, I get the drift so I'll not bother looking them up.

[Stanley]

One thing is clear now from Attorney General Cox's attack on the opposition is that the tactic is to goad them into early action by calling them cowards. At the same time 'unattributed briefings' from Downing Street attack the Supreme Court verdict. This is dirty politics and the strategy of allowing them to stew in their own juice until we are absolutely sure a crash out by No Deal has been avoided is exactly right.
Let's watch and wait.

[PanBiker]

No contrition or admission that the advice was wrong. Just legalise bluster and warnings of doom that a new precedence has been acted into law. The Labour position regarding the date of an election (and other opposition parties) is perfectly clear. No government that has been found unlawful by the highest court in the land can be trusted to do what they claim until the fat lady sings so to speak. She will sing when Johnson has doffed his cap and asked for an extension when his non existent deal has been shown to be just another lie to both parliament and the electorate.

[Tizer]

Let's not forget the 4th November 2016 when the Daily Mail front page had the headline `Enemies of the people' under photos of the three judges who had ruled that the UK Government would require the consent of Parliament to give notice of Brexit: LINK

[plaques]

I agree with Sue. Just because you catch a conman out on one scam he doesn't stop being a conman.
Our favourite Tory MP Mr iain Duncan Smith made a comment to on the lines that if they acceded to Corbyn's request of a general election it would prorogue parliament like Johnson has just done. There is no comparison at all. Johnson's action was illegal whereas calling an election is legal and also the EU have said in such circumstances they would automatically give an extension to the leaving date if required. Talk about trying to muddy the waters.

[Tripps]

Well I've just watched most of the 'debate' in the Commons. Largely a waste of my time and theirs. Boris was answering questions (well over a hundred), for about three and a half hours. He twisted every question round, so that his reply to them all was along the lines of 'well if you don't like it have a General Election'.

The most interesting was nearly the last - 'would he in accordance with the law of the land request an extension for Brexit beyond October 31st'? Just a one word answer - no.

He then left - he'd had a busy day. John McDonnell tried a point of order to get him brought back to the chamber, but it didn't work. They might as well have stayed prorogued.

[Stanley]

I watched quite a lot of the debate last night. Give Johnson his due, in his terms he did a good job, answered every question without bumbling and stuck to the Tory line. Note that I am not saying he was right, just commenting on how the Tories will see it.
Ian is right of course, Corbyn sat there and took it as he should, angry but firm and patient. This was exactly what he was expecting. As for Cox, Nature gave him a wonderful voice and he used it to perfection but, as was commented on in the house by a Scottish MP, he was the epitome of a barrister blustering to cover up the fact he had no case.
Tiz, I suspect that anyone who goes against the pure Tory line is an 'enemy of the people'. All the right wing media will back Johnson and say that he presented a good case.
I can't quite agree David. True, the Opposition met a stonewall and totally discreditable defence but it has clarified the situation and we know exactly what we are up against now. Johnson and his ilk cannot be trusted an inch.
What struck me was the sheer brass neck of the Tories and the vicious nature of the language. Expect to hear cowards ad infinitum from now on. The opposition must keep their nerve and not be provoked. That way, their strategy will work and the angrier and more vicious the Tories get, the more likely they are to compound their secret woes. Believe me, none of them with any intelligence is pleased at the way this is going. The chief instinct they will have is to turn against themselves.
Cummings is pure evil and deserves to go to hell.
The Daily Mail is criticising Johnson this morning. Are some cracks showing in the Tory support machine?

[Sue]

BBC NEWS online is very critical of the language used yesterday. I didn’t watch it but it comes over that the man has a temper and does not like to be crossed. Not a good sign for an International negotiator. I don’t like Jeremy Corbyn , I don’t like his politics or the way he looks at the camera with a condescending head on one side but he seems the better bet at the moment. Anything has to be better than this.

[plaques]

Why don't we go for a general election them? The answer is pretty obvious. Parliament stops. Johnson will not request an extension from the EU even though he would be entitled to one. The law instructing an extension because of the 'no deal' clause times out. The 31st October, the leaving dead line, is passed therefore we are out without any further discussion. An election is win win for Johnson and his millionaire pals and lose lose for everybody else. The man's a scoundrel playing with peoples livelihoods.

[Stanley]

I agree with both of you. I listened to Soames and more pertinently Brendan Cox the husband of Jo. Both were sensible but Brendan had the greater impact.
Then I listened to Cleverly weaving and dodging. The least said the better.

[Tripps]

Much anguish about the language used by MP's yesterday in the Commons. Ladies in tears over the use of words such as traitor coward etc. Response from Boris "humbug".

I read the other day a telegram from Boris's hero and role model Winston Churchill, to the defenders of Singapore in 1942.

“There is to be no thought of saving troops or sparing the population. The battle must be fought to the bitter end at all costs… Commanders and senior officers should die with their troops. The honour of the British Empire and British Army is at stake. I rely on you all to show no mercy on any weakness in any form…”

There's no direct connection between the two, and a lot of time and changes in attitudes in between, but it's interesting to read I'd say.

Seems to have been missed in all the (faux) outrage about parliamentary language yesterday, was the new Labour Party policy on immigration. Worth looking at. Show of hands or card vote - I don't know but it's the democratically decided policy now. There was a long queue out of the door at A & E at Addenbrookes on Monday at lunchtime, but that's OK - I'm sure lots of the newcomers will be doctors and nurses.

And finally the Labour Shadow Minister for Exiting the European Union has resigned. Seems he doesn't actually believe we should exit the European Union, and probably never did. Seems he saw his role as challenging the Government's actions. Oh, and his wife's having a baby. What would have been Churchill's response?

[Whyperion]

new precedence has been acted into law.

I read it as effectively similar to court oath in criminal case 'tell the truth, the whole truch and nothing but the truth' or if you prefer in equity cases 'come with clean hands' or civil cases/insurance cases ' ultra fides- or in the utmost good faith'. Quite how that may relate to any other Orders of Council and indeed the role of the privvy council in (UK with Devolved Administrations) the future may be picked up in this afternoons debates on effectively a briish constitution- I parliament does not like the decision for possible future use the sessional end of parliament may need to have parliamentary legislation change, it may well be the the tories will succeed in reducing the role of the monarchy in the democracy in a way that perhaps labour would have wanted to. In all if Labour had tried the same tricks as Boris, the tories would have been moaning. Nevertheless the return to parliament has indeed been broadly a waste of time if searching for a brexit end is the main objective.

[Tizer]

How ironic! This whole Brexit business was Cameron's Tories trying to prevent the Conservative Party being taken over by the likes of Farage and UKIP. Look where we are now - the Party, and country, have been taken over by Boris `Trump' Johnson and his little friend sitting on his shoulder - Demonic Cummings.

Everyone seems to be blind to the obvious answer. Revoke Article 50, stay in the EU, apologise to our European friends for causing them so much hassle. Engage once more in developing the EU the way we and many other members want it to be. Launch a big information campaign to inform the UK public of the true facts about how we benefit from being in the EU. Job done. Get on with sorting out all our internal problems that have been ignored for so long!

[Sue]

Why don't we go for a general election them? The answer is pretty obvious. Parliament stops. Johnson will not request an extension from the EU even though he would be entitled to one. The law instructing an extension because of the 'no deal' clause times out. The 31st October, the leaving dead line, is passed therefore we are out without any further discussion. An election is win win for Johnson and his millionaire pals and lose lose for everybody else. The man's a scoundrel playing with peoples livelihoods.

And if there is one and JC or anyone else gets in before Brexit is resolved the Labour or A N Other party will get all the criticism for doing it wrong. I agree with the sitting it out rather than give in to Boris. The general election should be when the opposition(s) want it and not at the beck and call and goading of Boris.

[plaques]

Just finished re-reading Moby-Dick, (The white Whale) The similarities between Boris Johnson and Captain Ahab are unbelievable. Ahab followed a personal obsession where not only did he die chasing his delusion but the whale turned on the boat sinking it and drowning all but one of the crew. Here we are believing that once we have cut ourselves adrift of the EU America will be our salvation where in truth it will be our nemesis.

[Tripps]

Brilliant - I like that a lot. Have you seen the film it's very good.

I think staying in may be a 'nemesis' too. The Eu will change, and they can run rings round us at scheming politics. What is now a veto will one day be qualified majority voting. Trust me.

[Tizer]

This article is just published in the New Statesmen and it's very interesting; also very long but well worth reading. Brew a cup of tea and take the time to read it!
`Dominic Cummings: The Machiavel in Downing Street' LINK
I was particularly taken by the bit about Cummings's uncle, John Laws, former Lord Justice of Appeal, in these two paragraphs:

It is perhaps fortunate for Cummings that his uncle is not on the Supreme Court. For Laws also believes the 2016 referendum is “constitutionally troublesome”, as he put it in 2017. “It troubles me very greatly,” he said then, “you are having direct democracy and indirect democracy vying for position.” The referendum has muddied the waters of political sovereignty by forcing MPs, the majority of whom backed Remain, to vote against “their own political consciences”.

A vote that was supposed to hand back control has, in reality, handed it out to everyone and no one: parliament, government, the people, the courts. All are playing a part upon the national stage, but no one knows who is playing the lead. For a referendum has no place in Britain’s political system. Parliament, being sovereign, cannot give up its sovereignty – even, outside of general elections, to its people. In theory, this continues to be true, as the 2016 referendum did not compel parliament to act. In reality, MPs have interpreted the referendum as having the force of law; a law that cannot be repealed. That has shed parliament of its legitimacy, and left Britain grappling with a constitutional crisis.