POLITICS CORNER

[Stanley]

Tiz. You are quite right about the referendum being out of date.
David, a bit long winded for the doorstep or literature. Only one suggested change, pipe tobacco for pensioners should be tax free for pensioners.
Can't remember any of the brilliant thought triggered by listening to the news yesterday so I'll come back when I have woken up....

[Whyperion]

Laura Kuenssberg's take on the current election...LINK
`General election 2019: Old loyalties fracturing in strange campaign'

I keep hearing the Brexiteers banging on about the 17 million people (51.9% of the voters) who want us to leave the EU. Hearing it again yesterday another thought crossed my mind. Only 72% of the electorate turned out to vote in 2016. A lot has happened since then. What do the other 28% (~13 million adults) now want? If we could coax them into making a decision would they say `Get it over with and leave at last' or `Forget it. Stay in. Better the devil you know.'?

I doubt other than in some present marginals there will be much difference. The third of the electorate that don't vote are made up of the physically or mentally incapable those who are fed up with politics in gereneral those who do not find any candidate or party suitable those who consider that voting won't make any difference. So would any additional say 8% voting give a swing any particular direction or would the split even out so the quantities but not the proportions of votes change.
J

[plaques]

It seemed to come as something of a surprise to her when a caller reminded her of her own party's drug policy.
It's a bit long winded, but worth reading to get the gist. They seem to have given it a lot of thought.

Today's view on recreational drugs is a bit like the prohibition days in America, all you do is drive it underground and the Al Capone's of this world move in. The problem then becomes how does the UK Government control it? Make all those registering for its use take out third party liability insurance? Register 'on line' that their driving licence is revoked for 'X' number of days? Pay a premium for medical treatment? Register on a police data base? The list is endless and is probably why they don't want to go down this road.

[Tizer]

Tripps, thanks for that. I notice the Green Party's drug policy doesn't make any mention of the effects of the so-called recreational drugs on driver safety or occupational safety. If they are going to allow all this I wonder if they will accept responsibility for all the injuries and deaths that will ensue on the roads and at work?

Whippy, I think that the mentally or physically incapable would make up only a small % of the 13 million who didn't vote. Most will be just fed up with, or have always been disengaged with, politics. The fact is that we don't know what they want yet it would be irresponsible to ignore their existence.

[Whyperion]

Tizer, I am not certain about that percentage - maybe I just seem to get to places where there are a disproportionate number of people due to age, drugs (legal, illegal or prescription) other lifestyle or life events are severely reducing their mental capacity , one lady today , much to the frustration of her husband a difficult situation for me. Are there any places in England where turnout is over 80% ? I know I missed one election as I was travelling, one local elections when we were in East London in the ward there were only candidates from one party standing , I didn't bother that year as I had no choice.

[Stanley]

Have a listen to THIS short clip of a medical student at Addenbrooke's Hospital giving a very clear and articulate opinion about Johnson. I also see that he was booed as he left but can't find a video. Well done that Lass!!
Not too sure about Labour's broadband scheme. They are right in their argument of course, improvement is essential but I don't like the carrot of 'free'. All I'll agree to is that it should not only be faster but better band width.
It struck me that for a long time I have been banging on against the use of terms like 'fast' and 'super fast'. They are evidence that we have been brainwashed by the providers. Over 10 years ago Janet told me they were working with far faster speeds on naval contracts, by now they will be in multiple Gigs a second. It's all relative and in our case the comparator is Dial Up!
Note that Johnson used the word 'Communist'. That equates to racial discrimination or misogyny in my book. In the same terms he is a Fascist but I would not use language like that and if anybody did imagine the furore!

[Tizer]

This BBC widget lets you find brief summaries of each party's policies...
`Who should I vote for? General election 2019 policy guide' LINK

[Stanley]

I've been listening to the comments about Andrew's 'explanation'. They are universally sceptical and some express outright derision. Having heard more of him, I tend to agree on both counts. Pathetic.

[Stanley]

I seem to have avoided all political news yesterday. Must listen to the Westminster Hour tonight to catch up!

[chinatyke]

Please keep posting,it's the only information I am getting. I know you are all set in your ways but it's better than nothing!

[Stanley]

Understood China.... The Polish supermarket on Church Street has closed, the Xmas lights are lit and in the US Trump is as mad as a wet hen because the Democratic Governor of Louisiana has held his seat despite three visits by Trump to cheer on his supporters. This follows his being rejected in Kentucky. (LINK)
Prince Andrew dominates the UK news this morning after his Newsnight interview last night. What is with the British and the royal family? Who cares what an over-privileged under employed prince does? He's acted like a fool and been found out, end of story (and that's only the bits he agrees happened, the rest is 'fake news' of course).

[plaques]

It looks like Trump is losing support in his Republican party. Ultimately they will support him to the bitter end but try to distance themselves from his extremism. From the New York Times above. Mr. Trump campaigned for Mr. Rispone twice in the final two weeks of the race, warning Louisiana voters that a loss would reflect poorly on his presidency...
Coming from Trump why does this sound like a veiled threat rather than a request for support?
Back home. Promises upon promises. Until the respective manifestos are published and a proper analysis of what is being said can be done everything else is just hot air with very little substance. Almost every time Johnson makes a statement it needs an army of people to explain what he really meant. When someone points out that previous promises have never happened or there is an alternative approach in steps Micheal Gove to dismiss it as nonsense. Moggmentum has disappeared from view as a Top Hat too far. Corbyn is dismissed as a Raving Communist and the Express Newspapers are forecasting a Labour wipeout. To quote a certain lady "Well they would wouldn't they"! The public apparently not too keen on having multi Billionaires running the country but unwittingly accept them running the traditional media outlets.
Confused?? All part of the master plan.

[Stanley]

All good stuff and pertinent P. I hate the present trend of both politicians and interviewers, both in search of 'sound bites' and 'news', where meaningless discussions are pursued on hypothetical matters. As you say, no firm ground until we see actual costed manifestos and spending plans. Until that happens, most comment is flim flam.
The thing that always strikes me about Boris is the fact that he is incoherent. He never finishes meaningful sentences and seems incapable of giving a logical and clear statement on anything. In this respect Corbyn wins any comparison hands down. Surely the least we can expect from our 'leaders' is that they are capable of being clearly understood?
In the absence of real news, Andrew dominates and now the dust has settled from Newsnight the universal opinion is that this is the worst Royal PR disaster ever. Descriptions like ignorant, insensitive, arrogant and lack of self-awareness are universal. I haven't heard a single voice that supports him.
I suspect that Brenda is incandescent.

[plaques]

When has it become acceptable for MPs to tell lies? Boris Johnson has been labeled by several MPs as a pathological liar and yet many of the electorate still continue to believe him. The only reason I can offer for this convoluted thinking is that should he ever form a government and things don't turn out as promised, as they surely will, then people have the ready made excuse that it wasn't their fault for voting for him but the other parties for not explaining it to them. Shades of the referendum lies.
Corbyn presents a different problem. So far he has been right on everything he says, whether you agree with him is a different matter. This leaves the electorate in a dilemma, they have to start thinking for themselves which will never do. Far better to let someone tell you what to think, even if you know its wrong, than to go to all that trouble thinking. The Tories know this and are going to extreme lengths to discredit anything Corbyn says quite often with false statistics and fake news items. I remember an article in the Express in 2013 when Piketty's book 'Capital' was being suggested as Nobel prize piece of work, Their headline was .. Don't bother reading it, its rubbish.
On Prince Andrew. Why do we continue with all these Royal titles. Prince, Duke, Marques, Earl. Viscount, Baron, and on it goes. If we insist on retaining a royal figurehead why not stop at King / Queen. and do away with the rest?

[Tizer]

When has it become acceptable for MPs to tell lies? Boris Johnson has been labelled by several MPs as a pathological liar and yet many of the electorate still continue to believe him.

Our politicians have seen Trump get away with it even though he's US President so they've happily fallen into the same way.

I've not taken much notice of the Prince Andrew issue and therefore I might have missed this - has anyone asked him who is the young woman in the photo where he's standing with his arm around her bare midriff in Epstein's doorway? I know he says he can't remember meeting the woman who's accusing him but surely he can remember who it was in that photo? The question then is simple - are they the same woman?

[PanBiker]

I think that's the crux of the matter Tiz. The inference is that it is the same woman when she was 17 years old.

[Tripps]

"A Labour government will negotiate a sensible deal within three months of being elected. It will be based on the things we always discussed and said were necessary with the EU and which are supported by trade unions and businesses. This includes a new customs union, a close single market relationship and guarantees of rights and protections."

Ian Panbiker has said elsewhere that this is his pitch for potential Labour voters on the doorstep.

Can such scenario be remotely possible? Would the EU quickly negotiate a deal - so good for us that it would beat remain in a referendum? Why would they want to? They would prefer we remained. Besides - Mr Corbyn say he would negotiate a new deal then campaign against it, and be in favour of remain in the promised referendum? Seeing Diane Abbott defend that position was hilarious.

In the interest of balance - I have no time Boris Johnson or the Lib Dems either. What's a chap to do?

[Tizer]

I think that's the crux of the matter Tiz. The inference is that it is the same woman when she was 17 years old.

But he says he never met his accuser so who does he say the 17-year-old woman was? Hasn't anyone asked him.

Tripps, I share your concerns about claims that such a deal could be negotiated. The EU leaders would simply say (as before) you can't have your cake and eat it. If you want the benefits of EU membership then you must be an EU member. Which is fair enough.

[PanBiker]

Ian Panbiker has said elsewhere that this is his pitch for potential Labour voters on the doorstep.

Never said that Tripps. I was referring to the Party position on the matter. For the record I don't do the canvassing, I leave that to others. I generally run the board on canvas sessions, (that is issue doors to knock to the canvassers and record all the results). Using this method it means that the canvassers only have to knock and engage the elector without having to cart around and complete rafts of paper. You can cover a lot more doors using this method. The basis of a snap election doorstep session is mainly to ascertain the voting intention. All affiliations surrendered are recorded of course.

[Tripps]

I see. Perhaps it was you saying "out canvassing today" last Saturday on the other thread that gave me that impression.

[PanBiker]

Indeed but it's a team effort you need both the canvassers and the board runner to do a successful session. Out again on Tuesday afternoon, different area within the town.

[Stanley]

David, forget logic and vote Labour. That'll do it. Think of young women crying because they can't feed their children or pay rent if you have to occupy your mind.
Tiz. A clue as to why Andrew bothered with Epstein in the first place. He was looking for clues/help 'to further his entrepreneurial career'. The poor lad is worried because he 'hasn't a role'. In other words, the privilege stream has been diverted round him.

[Tizer]

I'm glad to see [the issue of*] student tuition fees being raised but I don't know how any of the parties would manage to resolve the problem now that it exists. The system should never have been started in the first place - it's madness to make youngsters at that age and stage of life take out enormous loans. If the next government were to do away with new loans would it cancel the present ones? Cancelling is not as easy as it might seem because the Student Loans Company has been selling the loan books to commercial companies.
`Election 2019, Your Questions Answered: Education and tuition fees' LINK

*Edit thanks to Tripps!

[Tripps]

I'm glad to see student tuition fees being raised

Is that 'as an issue' rather than 'as an amount' ?

[Tizer]

I could be a politician and try to save myself by saying that I wrote that as a deliberate mistake to see if anyone noticed. But I won't.