POLITICS CORNER

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by chinatyke » 29 May 2019, 11:39

Thanks for explaining. :good:

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Whyperion » 29 May 2019, 20:44

I am keeping an eye on an local by-election in mum's area. At present the resigning (health reasons) Lab Councillor is in situ, but Libs are increasing in the consistuency area (which is generally tory as a whole but local wards vary ), I am anticipating Lib if turnout gets out.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 30 May 2019, 02:12

The thing about Bercow is that he has read his history and precedent law and knows the precise role and power of the Speaker's Chair. The Tories haven't. I know he's an annoying little man but you have to admit he has done a good job and I am glad that he wants to stay and make sure Parliament isn't short changed.
The private prosecution against Bojo is an interesting dilemma for the CPS.... If they intervene against the judge it will rightly be seen to be interference in politics and because of the nature of the charge it has to be argued in front of a Jury at Crown Court. And all that in the middle of his campaign. 'Crowd funded' which could mean that it's being funded by opponents.
Interesting piece in PE about how well Angela Leadsom's husband Ben is doing with his hedge fund and how much he will make from a hard Brexit. She has never declared any spousal income in her returns of income....
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 30 May 2019, 07:30

Stanley wrote:
30 May 2019, 02:12
The thing about Bercow is that he has read his history and precedent law and knows the precise role and power of the Speaker's Chair.
In a recent discussion Bercow made it quite clear that in law and in the absence of any agreement (deal) then the default position was to leave without a deal.Bercow But he was warning that MPs wouldn't just let things slide into the default position. There was sufficient time to allow proper discussions and allow various options to be voted on but if the new Prime Minister blocked these discussions with the sole intent to manufacture a hard Brexit they may find themselves subject to a vote of no confidence. A week is a long time in politics and anything could happen.

Big slash headline about Alastair Campbell being expelled from the Labour Party. Campbell I have read all of Campbell's diaries and was impressed by his energy and expertise in keeping Blair afloat although not necessarily in the outcome. As one time press officer he must have known exactly what he was doing and knew he was breaking the longstanding rules. Up pops Tom Watson supporting Campbells action, This man (Watson) is no more than a professional mischief maker and seems determine to undermine Corbyn at every opportunity. Every party needs people of different views but there is a time and place to express these views and not to rush into print at the drop of a hat.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 30 May 2019, 09:04

Plaques, as an independent observer I have to say that Watson and McDonnell appear to be doing their best to make up for all Corbyn's errors rather than trying to undermine him. :smile:
Stanley wrote:
30 May 2019, 02:12
The thing about Bercow is that he has read his history and precedent law and knows the precise role and power of the Speaker's Chair. The Tories haven't. I know he's an annoying little man but you have to admit he has done a good job...'
I agree. People probably regard you and I as annoying little men when we show them true facts... :laugh5:

Dirty tricks from the White House...
`White House 'asked Navy to hide warship USS John S. McCain'' LINK
`The White House asked for a warship named after Donald Trump's late rival, Senator John McCain, to be obscured during the president's trip to Japan, several reports have claimed....Quoting anonymous Navy officials, the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times and the Washington Post newspapers and Reuters news agency all reported that the White House asked for the ship to be obscured during the visit. The Wall Street Journal, which first reported the claims, cited an email between US military officials which said that the ship "needs to be out of sight"...The New York Times also reported that the warship's crew members, who have "USS John S McCain" on their caps, were sent home for the long weekend, along with the crew from another ship. When some of them turned up to watch the speech anyway, the paper added, they were turned away.
`Meghan McCain, Mr McCain's daughter, tweeted in response to the reports: "Trump is a child who will always be deeply threatened by the greatness of my dad's incredible life." She added: "There is a lot of criticism of how much I speak about my dad, but nine months since he passed, Trump won't let him RIP. So I have to stand up for him. It makes my grief unbearable."'

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 31 May 2019, 03:10

Trump.... I once read a book about the American Company ITT. Harold Geneen, a world-renowned business manager in his day turned a faltering ITT into a giant conglomerate dealing with everything from 'Wonder Bread' to Avis cars, sales skyrocketed from $766 million to $22 billion. His management techniques were so successful that ITT was dubbed "Geneen University". Harold Geneen was president and CEO of ITT from 1959 to 1977. Geneen said at one point that the last thing he wanted was yes-men or those who only ever reported success, he promoted the men who came to him and told him that something was going wrong and needed nipping in the bud.
This is exactly the opposite of what Trump looks for. Look at the way he endorses Conrad Black after he wrote an obsequious biography.
P, I have to say I tend to agree with Tiz about Watson and McDonnell. As for the Alastair Campbell affair, the Party appears to be on the verge of doing a reverse ferret on that decision. It was a stupid and possibly illegal decision. (LINK)
May attempting to polish her legacy yesterday by endorsing the study on student fees. At the same time in her resignation speech she trumpets the fact that the deficit has been lowered by the Tories. They did it by robbing anyone who was getting state money the students included and now she says it was wrong. Some confused thought there I think. Martin ?, he of the Money Programme criticises the new scheme and on the whole I agree with him. People paying loans back as they retire doesn't look like a good deal to me. How did I get a free pass as a Mature Student and a support grant on top?
The list of contenders for the Leadership continues to expand. The money is going on 17 in total when the dust settles.... Perhaps Bercow needs to step in!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 31 May 2019, 09:02

Stanley wrote:
31 May 2019, 03:10
P, I have to say I tend to agree with Tiz about Watson and McDonnell.
I have no problem with people saying how things stand. McDonnell said Labour's stand on Brexit was a mistake and the results were a catastrophe which is quite true. Labour tried to face both ways, Corbyn was conscious that a lot of people in the north of England had voted leave because they had felt left out and ignored. To go for a straight remain would be to ignore them yet again and possibly lose their support for ever. Watson's push for a second referendum may have a different result but I have yet to hear the logic behind his stand. On Alastair Campbell, if the rules need changing after all these years then change them but stop inferring it was Corbyn's doing .
Lord Andrew Adonis commented that Boris would probably become Prime Minister and push for a no deal Brexit. Parliament would insist on some kind of softening vote which would be carried. Boris would then claim that it wasn't his fault and blame Labour. In one mighty bound he was free.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 31 May 2019, 09:29

Another aspect of the Campbell affair raised widely was that he was immediately sacked yet members who engaged in antisemitism were not dealt with promptly. Also Jess Phillips pointed out that the Party weren't as quick to respond to sexual harassment allegations as they were in sacking Campbell.

The BBC's newspaper coverage this morning states: `The main story in the Times is devoted to a new opinion poll that suggests the Liberal Democrats are ahead of the Conservatives and Labour for the first time since 2010. The YouGov poll of 1,700 people questioned about their general election voting intentions puts the Lib Dems on 24% - two points ahead of the Brexit Party. The Tories and Labour are both on 19%. The Times thinks the findings support the idea that the electorate is fracturing between those who support a no-deal Brexit and those who want to reverse the referendum. Writing in the paper, YouGov's director of political research, Anthony Wells, argues it is too early to write off the two main parties, saying he expects Labour and the Conservatives to be back ahead after the new Tory leader is elected.'

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 31 May 2019, 11:35

Tizer wrote:
31 May 2019, 09:29
Another aspect of the Campbell affair raised widely was that he was immediately sacked yet members who engaged in antisemitism were not dealt with promptly.
I'm not defending anybody but these are two different problems. Campbell appears to have broken a long standing black and white rule with no investigation or judgement required. Whether the rules are right or wrong or should be amended is entirely another matter. Antisemitism/sexual harassment both need investigation and careful judgement. The Equality and Human Rights Commission are set to investigate these claims, if they are found to be true and the system for dealing with them is not fit for purpose then Labour have some very serious questions to answer.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 31 May 2019, 11:54

Quite correct Plaques and I see that the Tories are coming under more scrutiny for their Islamaphobia stance. About time the media gave as much time to covering that as they have bashing Labour for accusations against them.
Ian

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Whyperion » 31 May 2019, 20:18

The Voting Intention survey was not far off my top of the head guess !, has it factored in a potential Lib Dem new leader ? Is the idea a new Tory Leader will get voting from BritEx (as mum keeps calling it)

Interesting BBC R4 podcast on the man behind Russia Mis/? Truth https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articl ... r-heard-of

On Student Loans, etc. Don't forget in the era of Free Tution and means tested maintenance grants (and at one time housing benefit for students too), basic income tax was not far off 33%, (and the tories has upped VAT from 8% to 15%), the erosion of student at the higher level, financial support from the state has been at the other side a reduction in basic rates of income tax ( but futher increases in some indirect taxes), so overall there is some kind of balance, and those of us who had lower taxes and free education maybe unfairly benefited ( but then we had high interest rates so the money out seems the same ).

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 01 Jun 2019, 01:59

I don't know enough about the Willsman affair to make a judgement (LINK) But from where I am sitting it looks serious. It dismays me mainly because Labour appear to have no idea how to handle the interface between Party and Public.
At the moment both Labour and Tory parties appear to have a death wish. They are displaying levels of disconnect and incompetence that astonish me. I am forced to the conclusion that they are both acephalous.
An hour ago Trump tweeted in support of Boris Johnson.....
My mind flies once more to Yeats....

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 01 Jun 2019, 07:27

Stanley wrote:
01 Jun 2019, 01:59
An hour ago Trump tweeted in support of Boris Johnson.....
This is a blatant piece of election interference. If Putin had backed a specific Democratic Candidate in the US elections all hell would have been let lose. Following this is John Bolton's comment that the Trump administration wants the UK to leave the EU. The track record on Trump's bullying attitude is do as I say or 'else'. sanctions?? or possible some implied favors. Unfortunately the selection is up to the Tory Party and who knows what they are thinking , anything could happen.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 01 Jun 2019, 07:43

Quite P.... This technique of disruption which we see in politics, business and industrial management may be an effective ploy but the potential for unintended consequences is far greater. We may rail against diplomatic subtlety at times but this is exactly why they pursue that path, there is less chance of a mistake.
I think you are also right to comment on the fact that the Tory reaction to this is uncertain. Personally, such an endorsement would be the kiss of death but as things stand, who knows?
Trying to look at the wider picture I can see no grounds for any degree of certainty or optimism. Having said that, I do have one clear view and that is because I am convinced that we are still wasting time and God knows we have very little left.
Looking at the Tories and Labour the wonga bird springs to mind, it flies round in ever decreasing circles until it finally vanishes up its own fundamental orifice. They may be doing just that.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Big Kev » 01 Jun 2019, 12:23

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Whyperion » 01 Jun 2019, 20:21

Its probably too late, but if Labour had suggested, and wholehartedly backed a recognisable form of brexit , would the conservatives , but normal reaction opposed it , or just distinguished an alternative form of brexit?

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 02 Jun 2019, 02:53

I am reminded of a saying common in my youth.... "If ifs and ands were pots and pans there'd be no need for tinkers"
How long is it since Parliament voted on anything?
I've only ever had total brake failure once in an old wagon and luckily it was on the flat. It feels just like that at the moment but on a steep downhill grade....
Trump sticks his oar in again in an interview for the Sunday Times. This time he is recommending a No Deal Brexit negotiated by Nigel Farage and suing the EU. This man should keep his trap shut!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 02 Jun 2019, 08:43

If Vladimir Putin had have made supporting comments for Hilary Clinton, what would he have said then? He has no business interfering in our politics or our current woes, he should stick to sorting out all his own, the man is a moron.
Ian

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Whyperion » 02 Jun 2019, 21:33

I think he is jiggling for a UK USA Trade Deal - basically we get all their tat, puts our farmers, etc out of business and not a lot other than a few Rolls Cars back the other way.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 03 Jun 2019, 02:25

13 leadership candidates and counting......
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 03 Jun 2019, 07:56

A hard Btexit means we are in control of our own laws, nobody is going to tell us what to do. We are in charge of our own destiny. We are going to decide what to do. What has been unsaid in all this rhetoric is what we are not going to do. Mrs May has just given a masterclass demonstration of the Tory's ability to kick the can down the road. What's on the agenda for things not to do?
Global warming, forget it, Fracking will continue with less restrictions and by-the-way buy your gas from the US not Russia.
Food standards. The US imports may be crap but it will be cheap crap. Freedom of choice, cheap or go without.
Money laundering, depends on how much you have to launder. Lets not rock the boat too much, think what would happen to property prices in London.
Off Shore tax havens. Far too complicated to tackle on our own lets see what the rest of them are going to do first.
Land Reform. Ownership is a private matter and should remain that way shouldn't it? Giving tax payers subsidies to companies registered in Off Shore shell companies seems to be working quite well so best left alone.
Taxation. There may be the odd loophole here and there where the biggest companies and the richest individual don't appear to pay their fare share, 'we pay all the taxes required' is a typical answer but on the whole its working quite well. Give the can another kick.
Add to the list as you think fit, Remember you are entering Retro UK.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tripps » 03 Jun 2019, 18:08

Rod Stewart MP. currently using the first name Rory was on radio this morning. From memory he seemed to be proposing that a citizens' group / panel be recruited and chaired by the Archbishop of Canterbury. They would quietly discuss Brexit, and democratically come up with a workable solution to the matter.

This solution would then be taken to Brussels and they would convince the EU to accept it. It would then be presented to the Commons who would do likewise. The whole process would be passed and completed in time for us to leave on October 31st.

What could possibly go wrong? I'm not at my sharpest between 8 and 9 am. Could I have dozed off, and it was all just a dream. :smile:
Born to be mild. . .

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 04 Jun 2019, 02:19

Between you you have produced the most accurate and honest summary of what is happening I have seen so far.
Love 'Retro UK!
Hunt yesterday, "we will do nothing to damage our security". In other words "I'll have a word with Donald and see what he thinks....". Another master class, this time in weasel words on the subject of sovereignty.
Meanwhile we spend £40million+ on the state visit and shove reports of us being a mean and vindictive administration under the bulging carpet. Welcome to the Land of the Free.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 05 Jun 2019, 05:22

Trump has resiled from his statement about the NHS yesterday, now he says that NHS isn't trade. This doesn't lessen the danger, the NHS is seen as a golden egg by private health care. Look on the web for Virgin Care and Circle health. (LINK)
The contenders for the Tory leadership have started private hustings with Tory members. They are seeking support to get in the last two standing who will then be submitted to the Tory Membership who are expected to go for the hardest Brexit. A truly flawed and unrepresentative process as the membership is almost all white, middle aged and reactionary. They will decide what flavour of leader we will get. Our fate is in their hands.....
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 05 Jun 2019, 08:11

Why should only 120,000 people elect the next Prime Minister? Elect a leader with their bent system of course, that's their choice, but it should then automatically go to a general election to see if the choice is acceptable to the country instead of hiding behind the fixed parliament term.
Ian

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