POLITICS CORNER

User avatar
Tripps
Senior Member
Posts: 3430
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 14:56

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tripps » 05 Jun 2019, 09:53

Stanley wrote:
05 Jun 2019, 05:22
Trump has resiled from his statement about the NHS yesterday
I think the simple answer (thanks Occam) is that he somehow didn't know what the TLA NHS stood for - even when Mrs May stage whispered it to him. He then went to his default 'negotiating' script - 'everything is on the table'.

(TLA = three letter acronym.) :smile:
Born to be mild. . .

User avatar
Whyperion
Senior Member
Posts: 1598
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 22:13
Location: Soon to be Stockport, Currently in Burnley , After leaving Barnoldswick , except when I am in London

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Whyperion » 05 Jun 2019, 21:13

I could join the tories (but prob too late to elect one of a poor choice of two)

Panbiker, sorry, I remember the GLC when London elected a Labour administration led by a chap , Andrew ? (forgot though I could look up). 48hrs later a power coup and Ken Livingstone pops up as GLC Leader, neither person, or policies, that were clearly put to the electorate of London.

User avatar
PanBiker
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 9064
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 13:07
Location: Barnoldswick - In the West Riding of Yorkshire, always was, always will be.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 05 Jun 2019, 21:22

There is quite a bit of difference between the post of Prime Minister and that of a city Mayor albeit part of London Town.
Ian

User avatar
Tripps
Senior Member
Posts: 3430
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 14:56

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tripps » 05 Jun 2019, 21:42

Whyperion wrote:
05 Jun 2019, 21:13
I remember the GLC when London elected a Labour administration led by a chap , Andrew ? (forgot though I could look up). 48hrs later a power coup and Ken Livingstone pops up as GLC Leader,
That was Andrew McIntosh
Born to be mild. . .

User avatar
Whyperion
Senior Member
Posts: 1598
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 22:13
Location: Soon to be Stockport, Currently in Burnley , After leaving Barnoldswick , except when I am in London

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Whyperion » 05 Jun 2019, 23:43

PanBiker wrote:
05 Jun 2019, 21:22
There is quite a bit of difference between the post of Prime Minister and that of a city Mayor albeit part of London Town.
But surely the principle is the same, and for the GLC something like the economic and population clout of the administration was something like being the sixth largest country in the EU, as well as being high profile with the likes of Westminster within its Doorstep.

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 51233
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 06 Jun 2019, 02:09

Angels on a pinhead I'm afraid.... It will still be a hard Brexiteer. The right wing version of a 'Marxist' voted in finally by a tiny reactionary clique in the Shires. That's democracy for you!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Big Kev
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 3051
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 20:15
Location: Barlick

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Big Kev » 06 Jun 2019, 11:10

Kev

A Resigned Observer

User avatar
plaques
Donor
Posts: 3499
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 06 Jun 2019, 12:00

I'll rather miss Mrs May, at least you knew exactly where you stood with her. If she made a promise you could safely ignore it, it would never happen. A declaration of fact, " austerity has ended" could be dealt with in exactly the same way. With the present Prime Minister contenders I've no idea what to think. They don't make promises only confessing to aspirations. Contrary verbal statements are explained away by suggesting the pause in delivery wasn't the start of a new statement but and extended comma and was part of the previous statement. The only thing that we can guarantee is that Brexit will happen because that doesn't need any action from their part and we will just drift into the abyss. The agenda will then be to continue avoiding all the things we have been ignoring for years but to give them a legitimate status of that's what the people voted for??

User avatar
Tripps
Senior Member
Posts: 3430
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 14:56

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tripps » 06 Jun 2019, 12:24

plaques wrote:
06 Jun 2019, 12:00
I'll rather miss Mrs May,
She's not gone yet. . . . :smile: Now we see the plan - it will take garlic and a wooden stake. Seems that she remains Prime Minister even after she resigns as leader of the Conservative Party, until her successor is appointed, and she endorses the party's choice to HM Queen. :smile:


From the Guardian a few minutes ago

Boris Johnson could avoid facing an immediate confidence vote in his premiership if he becomes Conservative leader, as ministers are considering whether to send MPs home early for their summer break before the new prime minister is announced.

Mel Stride, the new leader of the House of Commons, aroused suspicions that the Conservatives are plotting to put off a confidence vote for their new leader until September, as he refused to confirm when recess will start. (See 11.36am.)

He said it was “not necessarily” the case that the new Conservative leader would have to appear in front of parliament before MPs go off on holiday until the autumn.

Ministers appear to be trying to get round the threat of a new Conservative leader failing to be able to form a government, if Johnson or one of the other front runners to succeed Theresa May loses the support of some Tory MPs or cannot win over the Democratic Unionist party.Labour sources said they believe the government whips are planning recess to start potentially as early as July 19 – almost a week earlier than last year – while the Conservatives will not say exactly when the winner of their leadership contest will be announced, other than it will be in the week of July 22.

The move to delay a confidence vote until September would give a new leader the chance to ensure its confidence and supply deal with the DUP still stands.

However, it could mean that Theresa May would not be able to go to Buckingham Palace straight away and resign as prime minister. Her spokesman said May would only hand over the keys to No 10 when “she says to the Queen that she is stepping aside and believes that someone else can command the confidence of the House
Born to be mild. . .

User avatar
chinatyke
Donor
Posts: 2388
Joined: 21 Apr 2012, 13:14
Location: Pingguo, Guangxi, China

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by chinatyke » 06 Jun 2019, 14:26

Tripps wrote:
06 Jun 2019, 12:24

Boris Johnson could avoid facing an immediate confidence vote in his premiership if he becomes Conservative leader, as ministers are considering whether to send MPs home early for their summer break before the new prime minister is announced.

Mel Stride, the new leader of the House of Commons, aroused suspicions that the Conservatives are plotting to put off a confidence vote for their new leader until September, as he refused to confirm when recess will start. (See 11.36am.)

He said it was “not necessarily” the case that the new Conservative leader would have to appear in front of parliament before MPs go off on holiday until the autumn.
Not more holidays! What a way to run a country!
No wonder European Council President Donald Tusk said his "message to British friends" was "please do not waste this time"...

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 51233
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 07 Jun 2019, 02:27

There could be a Cunning Wheeze to shorten the process even more than the recent revisions to voting procedures in the Party. Suppose two candidates have been selected and they are ready to go to the shires. If one of the two voluntarily drops out the last one standing is automatically Leader and no further vote is needed, That's how T May got into post. The advantage of this is that the 'winner' could have a programme that would be anathema to the membership. Don't put anything past this bunch of self-serving politicos.
As for the DUP.... difficult to see any scenario that would bring them back on side except Remaining or a version of it.
Some light may be shed on the matter today as according to 'the plan' May announces her resignation and the process today. Don't expect anything clear cut, David could be right, we might need garlic and a wooden stake. That would of course be a general election and even God doesn't know how that would turn out.
Cameron's Catastrophe gets worse and worse, what a legacy for a Remainer to leave...... He's dragged T May down as well. The referendum was a wrecking ball, discuss!
Later... a glimmer of hope in the east! Labour have taken Peterborough by 683 votes, Brexit was second, Conservatives third and the LibDems fourth. Farage is on Today at the moment talking up his one horse policy when it looks as though the electorate voted on core issues that affect them and not Brexit. Of course Farage disputes this but on this showing it could be another example of a new party going up like a rocket and down like the stick. After all, he said the same thing about UKip but look where they are now. As I say, a glimmer, only a glimmer, of hope.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 51233
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 08 Jun 2019, 05:18

May resigns but stays in post as caretaker. I think that says it all.
Gove admits taking drugs..... classic disarming of criticism if you think that someone is waiting until the election voting has that shot in their locker. (Later.... The Mail reveals that I was right, they are about to serialise a book about Gove that reveals the drug taking and when the Mail warned Gove he volunteered to be interviewed) Rory (Roderick James Newton) Stewart has admitted to the same failing.
Rumours are rife that T May has a cunning plan to polish her legacy by spending money during her caretaker job but has run into an obstacle in the shape of Spreadsheet Phil who is determined to protect his contingency pot because he thinks it might be needed. That makes sense.
I listened to John McDonnell being interviewed by John Humphrys on Today yesterday and I like the way he reacted to Humphrys doing his best to belittle the Labour win at Peterborough. I have noted all manner of commentators referring to Labour 'clinging on' and similar phrases. As John pointed out, it was a win!
Later still, isn't it funny that the right wing press sees a possible Labour victory in a General Election as him 'Sneaking into power'...
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
plaques
Donor
Posts: 3499
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 08 Jun 2019, 07:24

Stanley wrote:
08 Jun 2019, 05:18
I have noted all manner of commentators referring to Labour 'clinging on' and similar phrases.
Its now all about keeping the Tory's in power at any expense. Keeping Labour out is No 1 priority, anything to belittle Corbyn will do whether accusation is true or some vague association that stretches incredibility beyond imagination. Running the country has taken third place behind get Corbyn and Farage.
Farage now blaming the Tory's for voting Conservative. when they could have voted for him. Is he trying to re-brand himself as a Conservative? The logic being if Boris becomes leader then we are out of the EU and therefore no need of a Brexit party and no need for Farage. Like UKIP his party will go the way of the Dodo's . End of Farage, QED, As they say 'watch this space.

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 51233
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 08 Jun 2019, 07:52

I agree with you entirely P. What the Tories are looking at is the decimation (literally!) of their Party. They have enough information now to know that unless they can do something radical this is is no longer conjecture but certainty and as you say the only way out they can see is to make Brexit happen by any means.
This is a vain hope for the following reason. Suppose they succeed and get either the flawed deal or no deal through Parliament, what happens then is that the fragile UK economy almost certainly goes into melt-down and they will get punished anyway in the inevitable general election for causing a recession.
As for the leadership. Matthew Parris is almost certainly correct. He has said this morning that Boris, if elected, will almost certainly fail.
On Farage, I am certain you are right. He has no policies or substance and if there is any justice, the Brexit party will go the same way as UKIP. If that doesn't happen the country really has gone mad.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Whyperion
Senior Member
Posts: 1598
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 22:13
Location: Soon to be Stockport, Currently in Burnley , After leaving Barnoldswick , except when I am in London

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Whyperion » 08 Jun 2019, 09:18

If an elected politician admits to taking a substance banned by law, should they immediately pardon all those imprisoned or fined for importing or distributing such substances if said politican has a position of power or influence of the making of, or enforcement of, such legislation ?

User avatar
PanBiker
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 9064
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 13:07
Location: Barnoldswick - In the West Riding of Yorkshire, always was, always will be.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 08 Jun 2019, 09:52

Do as I say not as I do.

So, Michael Gove is a drug addict! I wonder if it will get as much coverage as Jeremy Corbyn's status as as terrorist, fascist, traitor, Nazi, Communist and anti-Semite?

How many more will have to fess up?
Ian

User avatar
plaques
Donor
Posts: 3499
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 08 Jun 2019, 10:25

Whyperion wrote:
08 Jun 2019, 09:18
If an elected politician admits to taking a substance banned by law, should they immediately pardon all those imprisoned or fined...
or imprisoned themselves or at least barred from representing law abiding citizens. “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone .”

User avatar
Whyperion
Senior Member
Posts: 1598
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 22:13
Location: Soon to be Stockport, Currently in Burnley , After leaving Barnoldswick , except when I am in London

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Whyperion » 08 Jun 2019, 10:33

I suppose it might explain some of Gove's decisions , but leaves a more free run for Boris. I wonder if the tories should have gone for Boris as leader instead of May originally. Rory's Drug Use seemed to be in a different cultural setting.

User avatar
Tripps
Senior Member
Posts: 3430
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 14:56

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tripps » 08 Jun 2019, 12:53

PanBiker wrote:
08 Jun 2019, 09:52
So, Michael Gove is a drug addict! I wonder if it will get as much coverage as Jeremy Corbyn's status as as terrorist, fascist, traitor, Nazi, Communist and anti-Semite?
May I gently suggest there is a bit of exaggeration here? :smile:

No one has said that Michael Gove is a 'drug addict'. No one to my knowledge has said that Jeremy Corbyn is a 'terrorist'.

Didn't George Osborne have a similar problem? I seem to remember a photo of him in compromising circumstances, but I think this 'emerged' when he was well established, not putting himself up for office. He seems to have survived it all.

As for coverage - the media are 'speaking of little else ' today, and I think it will continue for the rest of the leadership campaign. I'd say it's over for his challenge, which pleases me as I can't stand him. I've read elsewhere that if he answers the questions truthfully, and surely he will, :smile: for (like Brutus), he is an honourable man, this episode will prevent him getting a visa to travel to the USA.
Born to be mild. . .

User avatar
PanBiker
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 9064
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 13:07
Location: Barnoldswick - In the West Riding of Yorkshire, always was, always will be.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 08 Jun 2019, 15:17

Tripps wrote:
08 Jun 2019, 12:53
May I gently suggest there is a bit of exaggeration here? :smile:
Of course, the same as all the exaggerated accusations against J Corbyn. Since he was elected he has been called all that I quoted at one time or another.

I don't know whether you watch Question Time but last Thursday they spent literally half the program on a Corbyn bashing session for not attending the Trump banquet jobby. I was waiting for the Devil incarnate quote to arrive at one point. Anyway Gove, (I can't stand him either) has trumped Theresa's naughtiness of running through a cornfield hasn't he? :extrawink:
Ian

User avatar
Tripps
Senior Member
Posts: 3430
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 14:56

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tripps » 08 Jun 2019, 15:29

I've read what I wrote, and wouldn't change anything.

I try to keep my posts light hearted, non confrontational, and occasionally / quite often, a bit flippant. It's so easy to upset people, and I don't want to do that.

I never watch Question Time.
Born to be mild. . .

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 51233
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 09 Jun 2019, 03:32

Don't let us be mis-directed by all the smoke and mirrors fed to the right wing press by the Tory Party spinmeisters. This is all designed to divert our attention from the substance of what is actually happening.
A combination of arcane laws erected by Cameron and Osborne to protect the Tory Party (Fixed Term Parliaments) and their own internal Party Rules is allowing a minority government that has clearly failed to install another Leader which in effect means another Prime Minister whose policies are in turn dictated to by what they can get past the reactionary Tory membership as they are the arbiters. This means that there will be strong pressure inside the Tory Party to effect Brexit by any means. This is 'job done' for the Brexiteer plotters who started this hare by forcing a weak Cameron to allow a referendum that was always going to be flawed and divisive. The stated aim was 'Sovereignty', freedom from being a vassal state. This is code for changing the way this country is governed by giving the Party freedom to pursue the main objective, control by the wealth holders of the country so that they can regress to the 'good old days' of 19th century laisser faire. In 2010 this project was started by economic policies that imposed Austerity on us which they assured us meant that all would share the pain but which in effect turned out to be dismantling the advances made by the bottom 50% of the electorate in the last 100 years. This was going well but not fast enough for extremists like the ERG and other old DNA Tories too smart to put their head above the parapet, hence the Referendum.
This is classic 'Divide and Rule' and has been a brilliant success, the country is split in two. While the proles are occupied by the froth, at the moment the Project is going well. Wealth is moving to the top of the food chain (look at bank profits....), wealth funds based offshore are raking in profits from asset and capital stripping and domestic debt rises to unprecedented levels. Government 'advisers' and consultants are raking in millions.
What people like us have to do is to point out the enormity of this confidence trick and not allow the spin to divert us. We have reached a stage now where it is almost certain that this internal Tory Party plot will succeed. Everyone from the BofE to industry warns us that Brexit is going to bring at least recession and possibly depression. We may have to endure the pain of this before sanity can prevail, a General Election called and the Tories smashed completely. They deserve nothing less. Farage and Brexit won't be a factor once we are out of the EU and it will be a straight fight on economic reality. It seems to me that this is where we are heading and if that is the case someone like Johnson as PM will be Labour and LibDem's biggest asset.
These are the fundamentals, let's concentrate on them and not the mis-direction.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
plaques
Donor
Posts: 3499
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 09 Jun 2019, 07:57

Stanley wrote:
09 Jun 2019, 03:32
wealth funds based offshore are raking in profits from asset and capital stripping and domestic debt rises to unprecedented levels
Who Owns England. (see Read any good books) Shows that quietly away the land ownership in England is still held in very few hands much of it hidden away in tax havens with no sight of who actually owns it but still receiving tax payers subsidies. The whole ethos is to keep ownership secret while lobby groups within or attached to the Tory Government keep pushing reforms into the long grass and quietly adding nice little, often massive, tax perks to the wealthy owners. Not a subject that is openly talked about and will remain that way after Brexit.

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 10869
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 09 Jun 2019, 10:35

Stanley wrote:
08 Jun 2019, 07:52
As for the leadership. Matthew Parris is almost certainly correct. He has said this morning that Boris, if elected, will almost certainly fail.
In his Times article yesterday Parris calls Boris all the names under the sun, a liar etc etc. He predicts that the Tories will deliberately elect Boris as PM to get a result on the Brexit issue, whatever that may be, then boot him out and put in someone who (they believe) will be an able PM.
Tripps wrote:
08 Jun 2019, 12:53
I've read elsewhere that if he [Gove] answers the questions truthfully, and surely he will, :smile: for (like Brutus), he is an honourable man, this episode will prevent him getting a visa to travel to the USA.
Trump doesn't like him so the cocaine story will provide a good excuse to keep him out. :smile:

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 51233
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 09 Jun 2019, 11:54

Nice to see you back Tiz. I hope you had a good holiday if a trifle wet and windy!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

Post Reply

Return to “Current Affairs & Comment”