POLITICS CORNER

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 20 Oct 2019, 10:35

In formal and important negotiations such as this I would expect an unsigned letter from one of the parties would be rejected outright. It's not just that we think it's invalid, the more important point is what the EU leaders will make of it and I expect they'll regard it as an insult to their intelligence. It's certainly an insult to mine! :smile:

Take back control. Revoke Article 50! :drummer:

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 20 Oct 2019, 11:56

Only last week Her Majesty the Queen asked that her Prime Minister Mr Boris Johnson gave priority in dealing with the withdrawal bill. Sending unsigned letters, which in a normal household would find themselves in the waste bin in 4 seconds flat, can't be considered as giving priority. She could either sack Johnson and request someone more reliable to take on the job or deal with it herself. Since the latter is very unlikely in terms of negotiating a deal she could revoke article 50 and suggests that parliament to starts again with a new prime minister and another referendum.
Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Windsor may have a some usage after all!

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 21 Oct 2019, 03:08

P. I said the other day that Brenda should be taking note. I have no doubt that she and her advisers have some strong views about what is happening.
John Pinar says that the smart money is on Bercow not allowing the same motion to be brought back to the House today. He's on strong ground because he did that with May Mk III. Over to you Johnson.
The Cummings/Johnson Axis keep banging on about sovereignty. Is what we are seeing their version of it? My mind goes back to the days when Saddam Hussein was employing the same tactics in his dealings with the West over weapons inspection. He used every trick in the book and ran rings round the US to the extent that in the end they got so pissed off they invaded. Do the Tories not realise the amount of ill will and distrust they are building up with the 27?
The same thing has happened already in Parliament and I have an idea that in the end this is what is going to decide the outcome but I can't yet see how. Deep precedents of behaviour and procedure have been built up over centuries, think of Magna Carta, and their importance should not be underestimated. It is supreme arrogance to believe that devious and thuggish behaviour can be used as a tool of governance. This is building a head of steam in the system which is already having serious repercussions. It will get worse before it gets better!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 21 Oct 2019, 07:41

Am I misunderstanding things here? Oliver Letwin's amendment asked for a delay on the approval of the latest deal until all the legislation had been approved by Parliament. Now it would appear that Johnson is submitting the the deal for approval in spite of a ruling that says he must wait. Is this part of the blame game to put the speaker John Bercow in a bad light and make him the villain of the piece? Johnson will then plead 'I did my best' They, the remainers', are ganging up on me', to which the true blue Tories will nod their heads in approval and shout "conspiracy, this is not true democracy". The mantra being 'lets get out of the EU so that WE can control our own affairs. All this is as though Parliament is ruled by the EU and is nothing to do with democracy within the UK.
Why do I get the feeling that Johnson is always tying to sneak something through the backdoor in an underhand fashion?

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 21 Oct 2019, 08:35

plaques wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 07:41
Why do I get the feeling that Johnson is always tying to sneak something through the backdoor in an underhand fashion?
Beacause he is a pathological liar and will use any dodgy procedure to further his own ends.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 21 Oct 2019, 08:44

Which is why he gets along so well with his pal, Trump.
It's time Headmaster Bercow put him on the naughty step.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Sue » 21 Oct 2019, 11:38

Tizer wrote:
20 Oct 2019, 10:35
In formal and important negotiations such as this I would expect an unsigned letter from one of the parties would be rejected outright. It's not just that we think it's invalid, the more important point is what the EU leaders will make of it and I expect they'll regard it as an insult to their intelligence. It's certainly an insult to mine! :smile:

Take back control. Revoke Article 50! :drummer:
There are rather a lot of things that are being ‘got away with ‘ that the normal person would lose their job over or certainly be reprimanded. I agree an insult to everyones intelligence.i hope the Eu realises its the politicians here and not the people who are playing silly devils
If you keep searching you will find it

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 21 Oct 2019, 17:10

Nice one Mr Bercow. :smile:
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 22 Oct 2019, 02:22

I agree absolutely, Bercow played a blinder and put down the objector.
Johnson and Cummings have almost run out of Cunning Plans. now the real politics can start.
Later, listening to the comments this morning. Across the board, not just interested parties but people like the Hansard Society, the overwhelming opinion seems to be that the government's proposal to get the Divorce Agreement through Parliament in three days is ludicrous as this doesn't give enough time do properly debate what is arguably the most important piece of legislation in the last 50 years. Even Ken Clark described the October 31 'deadline' as silly and not feasible.
So, today expect the main business to be not debate on the Divorce Bill but attempts by Parliament to stop it being bounced into a quick and dirty passage of the Bill.
I couldn't agree more with this assessment.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 22 Oct 2019, 08:25

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill is not really the absolute priority although getting it through would be a dream come through. All this huffing and puffing is preparing Johnson's image in a general election. Each time Parliament knocks a proposal down up goes Johnson's rating. The propaganda image is one of 'the people (Johnson) verses Parliament (the wreckers)'. Logic and common sense go out of the window after a few weeks of right-wing media manipulation. Johnson will miraculously morph from a buffoon to the champion of people and the best Prime Minister that's ever lived.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 22 Oct 2019, 09:02

BBC Political Editor Laura Kuenssberg is saying that before the proper debates can even get going today `there will be a vote on the timetable that's needed if the government has a hope of sticking to the breakneck schedule. Lose that and the chances of meeting 31 October look slim indeed.'

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tripps » 22 Oct 2019, 12:32

I learn that the current 'deal' is 95% the same as the May 'deal' which was totally rejected by MP's. They've got rid of the Irish backstop whatever that was, but as Melanie Philips has pointed out

"It would mean, as he (Farage) said, the UK committing itself to a ‘level playing field’ – in other words, no deviation – on employment legislation, social protection, environmental law, state aid and even taxation. So the terms of the Johnson deal would prevent the UK from becoming more competitive than the EU."

In what way would that be 'Brexit' - as a normal person would understand it?

Total mess.

As I have said before - they tackled the job that couldn't be done - and couldn't do it.

It won't happen on 31/October 2019 - or any date afterwards I think.

************************

I saw my MP Heidi Allen twice on TV yesterday, once in a committee and once in the house. She seemed distant, and totally fed up on both appearances. I'm not surprised. I've just had her election address from the Liberal Democrats. I hope she knocks on my door again. I'll give her some counselling.

I've found a window sticker from last time "Heidi Allen Conservative" in blue. I think I'll put it in the porch window. :smile:

PS After the voting - from the Guardian

What does it mean? First, don’t fall for the hype that says that parliament approved Johnson’s deal. It did not. MPs simply voted for it to receive a second reading, some of them motivated by the desire not to endorse it but to amend it. As Labour’s Gloria De Piero confessed, she voted yes, “not because I support the deal but because I don’t”.
Born to be mild. . .

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 23 Oct 2019, 02:12

I think P is right and the Cummings Plan is to polish a turd (in Johnson's immortal words) in that all this makes Johnson the popular choice as champion of the people. Will they fall for it? Your guess is as good as mine.
On the whole, Parliament is putting up a principled and orthodox defence against the dark arts. I don't see how they could do any better.
Thank God for Bercow......
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 23 Oct 2019, 08:41

Last night's votes on the Withdrawal Bill have left me a little confused. The headlines on the first vote are being proclaimed as a big victory for Johnson. Typically from the Times...The House of Commons has voted to support Boris Johnson’s Brexit bill in principle in a major victory for the prime minister. My understanding is that they haven't agreed to the bill but only agreed to discuss it. The second vote on the timetable being allowed to discuss it was rejected. The bill now sits in limbo or purgatory waiting to be cleansed, if that is possible, to some undefined timetable. This leaves Johnson having to ask for an EU extension giving rise to the possibility of another childish unsigned letter to add to the list of things he's thrown out of his pram. Whatever happened to the court ruling on the first letter?

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 23 Oct 2019, 08:48

plaques wrote:
23 Oct 2019, 08:41
Whatever happened to the court ruling on the first letter?
It's probably been conveniently forgotton and almost certainly not even noticed by the electorate in general. This also true for all the other lies and downright breaking of the law. The goldfish memory of the electorate coupled with the help of rabid media working on your side is what Boris is banking on if it comes to hey lads hey.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tripps » 23 Oct 2019, 08:58

PanBiker wrote:
23 Oct 2019, 08:48
It's probably been conveniently forgotten
I believe it is adjourned, but still ongoing in the Edinburgh Court of Sessions or some such. I doubt if Joanna Cherry QC MP will let it be forgotten. :smile:
plaques wrote:
23 Oct 2019, 08:41
My understanding is that they haven't agreed to the bill but only agreed to discuss it.
The Guardian (above) - says -
"MPs simply voted for it to receive a second reading, some of them motivated by the desire not to endorse it but to amend it."
Born to be mild. . .

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 23 Oct 2019, 11:43

Tripps wrote:
23 Oct 2019, 08:58
The Guardian (above) - says -
"MPs simply voted for it to receive a second reading, some of them motivated by the desire not to endorse it but to amend it."
There is now a suggestion that this 'second reading' can be interpreted as a meaningful vote and allows the UK to leave on the 31 st Oct. I wonder how many 'rebel' MP's knew of this possibility before they voted to accept it? WAB vote Perhaps we need another King John magna carter plus some of his followers held at ransom as guarantee he will toe the line. There wouldn't be many volunteers I suspect.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 23 Oct 2019, 15:51

I was pleased to hear Ken Clark making a string of scathing comments about Dom Cummings on the radio this morning. I've rarely heard such from him, he's usually more relaxed and taking it all in his stride. He's seems to be irked by The Dom, but then who isn't? :smile:

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 24 Oct 2019, 02:54

The Mekon is a blot on The Body Politic.....
I've given up analysing, I am just watching and waiting.
It makes you wonder what Cabinet Meetings are like these days. Informed discussion or just rubber-stamping exercises?
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by chinatyke » 24 Oct 2019, 05:38

19292

Source: ChinaDaily.com.cn


Crashing into reality
By Cai Meng | China Daily | Updated: 2019-10-24 09:30

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 24 Oct 2019, 05:56

Sadly China, quite accurate!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 24 Oct 2019, 08:35

Pressure is rising in the journalist world that they are becoming the official mouth pieces for Downing Streets false news.
Quote...It’s chilling. From the Mail, The Times to the BBC and ITN, everyone is peddling Downing Street’s lies and smears. They’re turning their readers into dupes.
The complaint is they are passing on these anonymous stories without any of the normal validation checks. Output from the Cabinet office or Downing St press secretaries is considered as acceptable with minimal scrutiny. Although there has always been anonymous sources which are seen as an important feature of journalism there has been a step change since Johnson and Cummings entered Downing St in peddling miss-information. The thinking is that not only are they being asked to push these lies but the newspaper owners are complicit in allowing it to happen.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 24 Oct 2019, 08:47

This may be one of them but on the other hand it wouldn't surprise me. The Sun claims that Dominick Cummings is leading calls to abandon attempts to get the prime minister's deal through Parliament and go for an election.

This sort of thing is worrying - Boris avoiding scrutiny by refusing at the last minute to attend a Commons liaison committee, the third time he has cancelled, and saying it will have to be 5 or 6 moths in the future, he's too busy with Brexit. You can tell he's learnt his lessons from Trump!
`Johnson accused of avoiding scrutiny after postponing committee appearance' LINK

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Whyperion » 24 Oct 2019, 11:44

Stanley wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 02:54

I've given up analysing, I am just watching and waiting.
Half watched Peston on ITV last night, seems he has too, looked clueless right at the end, no meaningful information from anyone supposedly in control of this present Nation.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 25 Oct 2019, 02:45

Tiz and P. I have to agree with both of you. The currency of political debate has been debased and like the monetary version, once done it takes a lot of rectifying.
I particularly agree with the theory that some papers are colluding with Cummings...
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