POLITICS CORNER

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 05 Jul 2020, 04:00

Reading PE this week I am even more convinced that our politics is broken. What a shower of devious deadbeats!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 05 Jul 2020, 08:34

Priti Patel seems to be getting into even more trouble...

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 06 Jul 2020, 03:01

Tiz, I always trust first impressions when I first see someone and I had her blackballed from the start.
(Off piste I know but the same subject in a way. I have always had a healthy aversion to David Starkey right from the early days when he was a pundit on 'The Moral Maze' on R4. There has been nothing since to change that assessment. I note his past utterances have caught up with him in respect of the controversy started by Black Lives Matter.)
On a sour note. I know I am not flavour of the month on this one but I hate to see Johnson et al join in clapping for the NHS. Why don't they devote their attention to reading the Dilnot report (LINK), apply the recommendations and pay NHS staff and carers properly?
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 06 Jul 2020, 07:50

Trump wrapping himself in the American flag and pushing the American dream. Vowing to defeat rebels, left-wing, and Marxists, all enemies of the imagination. Boris following in his footsteps with a 'buy British' slogan. If this is the only thing they have to offer Lord help us.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 06 Jul 2020, 08:44

Trump is now losing many of those who voted for him not because they thought he'd make a good President but because they wanted to keep Hilary Clinton out of the job. His team are in a panic and targeting their publicity on his strongest supporters instead of those who will, or might, sway towards Biden. His failure to handle the virus crisis properly is also turning folk against him.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Whyperion » 06 Jul 2020, 23:15

plaques wrote:
06 Jul 2020, 07:50
. Boris following in his footsteps with a 'buy British' slogan.
It would be really great if Boris's Govt bought British - like Turkish PPE Gowns , French Passports. German, Chiniese and Italian Trains, Energy companies owned by the French, Telecoms by the Germans, Water by whomever.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 07 Jul 2020, 02:02

All many politicians are interested in is retaining power and income. Trump and Johnson are the two who affect us most at the moment. I get that impression about Trump as well Tiz.
I don't know what the shape of things to come is but am sure that Covid and its effects are going to be important. Let's hope we see some change in the right direction.
Later... See THIS BBC report of Johnson's comments on care homes. He seems to be placing the blame for 20,000 deaths on the homes. Is this just more Johnson firing from the hip or is he rehearsing the arguments that will be deployed in any debate on social care?
Whatever, he is almost universally attacked for it and quite right too. Shades of shortage of PPE being due to medics using it incorrectly.....
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 07 Jul 2020, 12:12

Later... no apology from Number 10 on care homes only a lame explanation. Charming...
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 08 Jul 2020, 07:43

Stanley wrote:
07 Jul 2020, 12:12
Later... no apology from Number 10 on care homes only a lame explanation. Charming...
Blame shifting has been going on a long time... See this wiki entry


“Men are only clever at shifting blame from their own shoulders to those of others.”

-Titus Livius (59 BC–17 AD)

Titus Livius (“Livy”), a Roman historian, discussed blame shifting in the distant past, suggesting that even though people disapprove of it this method of avoiding others’ censure is nothing new. Today, we continue to live in a culture where people remain motivated to avoid appearing blameworthy and quickly point their fingers at anyone but themselves when something goes wrong.

Although a substantial body of scholarly work has explored the nature of blame, as well as the cognitive and affective mechanisms that underlie people’s desire to blame and punish others for their actions, we know little about how exposure to blame-shifting agents impacts subsequent judgments, such as for other social targets. This is a worthwhile question to explore because blame shifting appears to be something social agents—particularly those in the public eye and concerned with their public image—engage in frequently when they publicly fail. For those who observe others’ attempts to shy away from blame, this may have unforeseen consequences, such as promoting a cynical expectation that other people will act in the same way, which can have consequences for how these others are socially evaluated. The present research explores this, investigating how exposure to leaders who shift blame for their own failures influences subsequent expectations that other agents will do the same.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 08 Jul 2020, 09:05

Trump might be shifting blame for America's troubles onto China but this is the FBI director speaking out. The UK needs to pay more attention to the dangers from China...
`FBI director: China is 'greatest threat' to US' LINK

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 09 Jul 2020, 03:16

Bolton has the same, very strong, opinions about China.
David, some human traits have always been with us,like the tendency to blame others instead of accepting responsibility. Today it has been elevated to an art form.
Lots of comment about Rishi Sunak, not so much on his latest announcements but on the fact that he is being seen as a candidate for Leader of the Tories.
As for yesterday's announcements. Makes good press but what interests me are the people who are being left out. No word about easing the squeeze on the poor and chucking £1000 a head at employers for every person in training until January isn't going to solve youth unemployment. The bottom line is that the lowest 80 percentile account for about 80% of consumer spending which in turn is a major element in GDP. The multiplier is the most potent tool for affecting economic activity and all this talk about 'releasing' the money sitting in banks accounts has nothing to do with this, the major spenders are in debt and don't have savings. Add to this the businesses whose business potential is being cut in half by Covid precautions, they were doing badly in 'normal' times, they are on a hiding to nothing now. I predict that by September the true scale of unemployment is going to become evident and we will be looking at a 1930s scenario.
Then we really will start to see a blame game.....
Later... it occurred to me I had forgotten the £10 vouchers for eating out in the first three days of the week. Not a lot of good to me! Unless of course includes fish and chip shops!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 09 Jul 2020, 08:30

Stanley wrote:
09 Jul 2020, 03:16
No word about easing the squeeze on the poor and chucking £1000 a head at employers for every person in training until January isn't going to solve youth unemployment.
The comments from the CBI representative yesterday were limited to about 5 to 10 seconds, she did manage to get in that a 6month traing scheme was not an apprenticeship and offered little in adding skills for life. :sad:
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 09 Jul 2020, 08:56

The economics of this covid situation is getting difficult to understand. The longer term trend seems to be that the UK cannot continue to rely on low paid workers to keep the price of goods down. At some point manufacturing will have to introduce better techniques and robotics to keep up with the rest of the world. The result will be more unemployment especially if the service industry is part of this upgrade. If the government does nothing and just sits on their hands this release of labour will start immediately the furloughing ends. The governments support (bribe) to employers will help to keep some parts of the industry going and may prop up the spending potential of those kept in work. The alternative would be for an immediate big rise in unemployment and an increase in benefit payments. Either way the government is having to pay out. As far as governments image is concerned the support option is probably the best one to take. Having said all this especially with a no deal looming with the EU the outlook for the lower orders looks very bleak.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Whyperion » 09 Jul 2020, 09:18

Eating out m-w would appear to be stoking places with potential Covid-19 infections. and possibly taking trade away from the rest of the week. At one time places were shut on Mondays because fresh produce did not arrive as trains did not serve the markets on Sundays. But I have long said that 5% vat on eat-in food was a better means of high street support, with a small increase in Employer NHI to 15% all round, but with training allowances increased in direct payments.

Who will the Stamp Duty Change benefit ? First Time Buyers already were Zero for first £300k, so it is mainly movers , and there wont be that many of them and more in the south-east than other parts of the country. One group that could benefit are those in shared ownership where additional equity purchases had odd methods of calculating stamp duty. It also means homes of those whom have died could be easier and quicker to sell at the asking prices, which will throw money into the economy, and although bad for future land planning, housebuilders building to sell with completions due in the next 8 months should find they dont need to reduce prices so it protects corporate profits. Finally Buy-To-Lets, which will be handy for those portfolio building to house Hong Kong Fleeing Folk in Flats in Docklands and similar places - they still pay the 3% premium but the other reduction will come in very handy.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 09 Jul 2020, 09:19

Plaques, we need to do like Germany and the Asian countries and educate and train more of our young people in engineering, maths, science and technology.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 09 Jul 2020, 09:28

Add builders, joiners, plumbers and electricians to that list as well. You don''t need a degree for any of those but you will have a good chance of work for life.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Whyperion » 09 Jul 2020, 10:01

PanBiker wrote:
09 Jul 2020, 08:30
Stanley wrote:
09 Jul 2020, 03:16
No word about easing the squeeze on the poor and chucking £1000 a head at employers for every person in training until January isn't going to solve youth unemployment.
The comments from the CBI representative yesterday were limited to about 5 to 10 seconds, she did manage to get in that a 6month traing scheme was not an apprenticeship and offered little in adding skills for life. :sad:
No, but it keeps them off the Dole, but can employers actually provide productive (at apprentice or full min wage rate? activity - I did 6 months placements at university - I did computer analysis projects and advertising effectiveness studies as well as some internal signage manufacturing ) placements ? Hopefully it will be a route to proper apprentice work and so on, presumably NHS Trusts will be included as employers.

I feel the total cost of the takeaway budget may be less than flagged owing to lack of take up, but , like the Nightingales, being seen to do something rather than the effective things buys the ratings, the headlines, and feeds Rees -Mogg soundbites for Sunday Political Shows.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Whyperion » 09 Jul 2020, 10:30

If Boris has any sense - he has taken 'responsibilty' for the care homes situation, but blamed science on not knowing people without symptoms could pass on the disease (well that was a false statement as it was known - but was repeated at other times by ministers as a reason for not testing generally/ care home workers that you did not need to test people without symptoms). In fairness the fly on the wall No10 documentary did appear to show Johnson asking questions (maybe not the right ones), and getting unclear or conflicting advice and those advisors - political or scientific - did appear to be in a slight panic mode. The PPE supply question was not really addressed either in Johnsons PMQ response.

But Boris should find a way of cancelling Brexit and retiring out of being PM, what honorable route can he find ? And off to a Greek Isle with Dad. handing the poisoned plate to Ruishi.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 10 Jul 2020, 02:37

The comments focussing in on education are spot on in my book. The politicians are (as usual) looking for a quick fix. Plastering over the cracks instead of underpinning the foundations. If there is a solution it is in a massive upgrading of education from year one and it will be 20 years before the results start to bear fruit. Some of us have always recognised and advocated this. Don't hold your breath!
How about raising benefits? An immediate benefit to GDP via consumption because those people spend it. Then look at a meaningful land tax. Lloyd George proposed a similar measure in 1910 and failed, nobody has seriously threatened one since. Then, a la Piketty, a global wealth tax with no hiding places. Again, don't hold your breath.
Meanwhile, in another part of the forest I see that the US Supreme Court has ruled that Trump must make his tax returns available to the courts. :biggrin2:
Did my ears deceive me or did I just hear a report that Chris Grayling is being put forward as the Chair of the Parliamentary Intelligence Committee? Good Grief! (As David would say, what could possibly go wrong....)
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 10 Jul 2020, 08:51

Tory party backing away from the proposed cancelling of the over 75's free BBC licence. Johnson and Co all think its wrong but its nothing to do with us Gov. The current extension lasting until the 1st August was to help all those in lockdown to keep abreast with the covid situation but now the briefings have been reduced to an absolute minimum and we are back to mushroom management its now perfectly acceptable to keep everyone in the dark. The old excuse is trotted out that those who are in hardship and on supplementary benefit will not pay the fee. Forgotten is the fact that somewhere like 20% of people who are eligible for benefit don't claim it being too proud to do so. Both the BBC's and the governments excuses on this matter scream at you lame ducks and anti-socialism. When are people going to wake up to these lame excuses?

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Big Kev » 10 Jul 2020, 08:59

plaques wrote:
10 Jul 2020, 08:51
Forgotten is the fact that somewhere like 20% of people who are eligible for benefit don't claim it being too proud to do so.
Apologies if this offends but surely it's more to do with being stubborn. If the TV licence is going to be free, for those over 75 in receipt of a particular benefit, how can they complain that they have to pay for it.
Prior to this change was the free TV licence not a 'benefit'?
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 10 Jul 2020, 10:33

One man's stubborn-ness is another man's pride. :smile:

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 10 Jul 2020, 11:55

Big Kev wrote:
10 Jul 2020, 08:59
Apologies if this offends but surely it's more to do with being stubborn. If the TV licence is going to be free, for those over 75 in receipt of a particular benefit, how can they complain that they have to pay for it.
No offence ever taken, OG needs different slants on things. As I understand it 5 years ago the BBC took over a government responsibility for providing a benefit in the way of free TV to over 75s. This agreement has now run out of time. In the case of those over 75s who are claiming additional benefits in addition to their state pensions the BBC has agreed to continue wave the fee. The people who are complaining are those who now have to pay the fee.
The bottom line is that 5 years ago the government dropped this socialist handout and is now hiding behind an agreement which put the onus onto the BBC.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Big Kev » 10 Jul 2020, 18:20

Do the majority of over 75s not have a higher income than those in younger age groups? Those that don't will be in receipt of a benefit of some kind, which, as you say, will entitle them to the free license.

https://www.moneywise.co.uk/news/2019-0 ... groups-are

I fully understand that some that had it now don't but are probably in a better position to pay for it than some young families.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 10 Jul 2020, 21:15

The typical argument about who should or should not get benefits usually starts with Alan Sugar, Mick Jagger, and a host of other millionaires, I'll leave the Queen out of it for now. It then works it way down to people who have worked and saved and consequently disenfranchised themselves because of their thrifty lifestyle. This group is then compared with people who may have spent their money relatively unwisely on booze, cigarettes and foreign holidays and not put any effort into personal advancement at all. This is a totally mischievous way of assessing any social benefit. Taking this argument a step further should all benefits be concentrated in giving to say a poor immigrant or down and out drunk everything that the rest have spent their lives working for just because they are poor giving everybody else gets nothing?
My beef on the TV licence is the way that it was done. Rather than come clean and say that the vast majority of pensioners don't warrant this perk so we are stopping it the government of the day slipped the cost onto a third party and wrapped it up in some negotiations than very few knew the detail about and then said 'nothing to do with us'. Governments are well aware that pensioners tend to use their vote and use use every trick in the book to pass the blame onto someone else. Then to cap it all they have the audacity to say the days of austerity are over. They are just lying through their teeth.

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