CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 12 Dec 2019, 09:02

The absence of politicians has meant more room on Today for the really important matters. Fisrt was a very good report on Greta Thunberg speaking before to UN conference in Madrid. She is a remarkable young woman and it's generally agreed that her speech was well thought out, fully referenced and to the point.
Then we had I think it was Dieter Helm and an author who has just written a well received book on carbon taxes. The point they made was that if a country like UK imports carbon intensive goods from the US it is a moot point as to who is to blame. The Polluting US or us because in affect we are exporting our carbon dependency. The same applies to imports from China or other countries. I understand the thinking and leaned something this morning.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer » 12 Dec 2019, 09:58

A further comment to add to my response to Chinatyke's posting of the graph based on the Berner & Kothavala GEOCARB paper of 2001. The authors of the paper didn't make any claims about modern climate change and in fact their work played a part in explaining what is happening now. Berner studied the carbon cycle as it occurred in early geological eras. As usual, climate deniers have taken the work out of context. The original Berner & Kothavala GEOCARB paper is readily available online: LINK

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 15 Dec 2019, 06:18

See THIS BBC report of the conference in Madrid. It's shameful the way some countries are dragging their feet. Next year's meeting is in Glasgow. If there has been no advance by then panic might begin to set in.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer » 22 Dec 2019, 10:19

`Australia fires: PM Scott Morrison sorry for Hawaii holiday during crisis' LINK
Note this: `He conceded that climate change was contributing to changing weather patterns, but denied that it had directly caused Australia's wildfires. "It's not a credible suggestion to make that link," he argued.'
He just doesn't seem able to grasp it, does he? Here he's making one of those `straw man' arguments. Mr Scott Morrison, please read this:
Scientists are not saying that climate change `directly caused' these fires, or the ones in the US, or anywhere else. Climate change wasn't the match that started the fires, or the stroke of lightning that did it. There have always been forest fires. The point is that climate change does alter a number of factors in a way that makes them much more intense and more frequent. And you are one of the people who have prevented us tackling climate change in recent decades.

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 23 Dec 2019, 04:58

Exactly right Tiz. From your mouth to God's ear!
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer » 23 Dec 2019, 10:12

Kevin Rudd was on the radio this morning to bring some sense to it all. His policies to control climate change were ditched by Morrison. It's mind boggling when you think how much damage is being done to our world by the deniers who've held back climate protection for all these years - and now they have the audacity to complain that the proposed controls are too severe.

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 24 Dec 2019, 03:49

I heard him and thought he made a lot of sense.
In the present climate this could backfire on Morrison in a big way and if it does he can go back to Hawaii and finish his holiday!
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 25 Dec 2019, 05:03

My thoughts go out to all those whose Xmas has been ruined by being flooded out. Life can be a bugger. (And then you die.)
Then they turn to the fat cat MPs and their Xmas.....
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by plaques » 25 Dec 2019, 10:14

Take a break and go to Mustique for Christmas, its only 4315 miles (8630 total)
International travellers can fly to Barbados and then take a connecting flight to Mustique. There are regular scheduled flights between St. Vincent and Mustique. Private charters are also offered. Mustique's airport is located in the northern half of the island.
I believe they do some very nice hot baths there.

Now lets see, Ah yes, global warming,

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 26 Dec 2019, 04:04

It's the insensitivity of it that bugs me P. Of course the stock defence is to say that people like us are indulging in 'the politics of envy' which simply emphasises how distant they are from real life.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Whyperion » 29 Dec 2019, 05:01

plaques wrote:
25 Dec 2019, 10:14
Take a break and go to Mustique for Christmas, its only 4315 miles (8630 total)
International travellers can fly to Barbados and then take a connecting flight to Mustique. There are regular scheduled flights between St. Vincent and Mustique. Private charters are also offered. Mustique's airport is located in the northern half of the island.
I believe they do some very nice hot baths there.

Now lets see, Ah yes, global warming,
It wasnt headline news in the papers that were urging us to Vote Boris a couple of weeks ago. Dont suppose he bought one way tickets though ?

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 01 Jan 2020, 04:55

The reports of low temperatures in Delhi and catastrophic bush fires in Oz before the really hot weather has arrived.
Can climate change be denied?
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tripps » 01 Jan 2020, 16:54

Stanley wrote:
01 Jan 2020, 04:55
Can climate change be denied?
As Mao Tse Tung is reported to have said about the impact of the French Revolution

'It's too early to say' . :smile:
Born to be mild. . .

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 02 Jan 2020, 03:08

I like that David..... :biggrin2:
See THIS BBC report of one good news story from the fires. Saving the animals in a zoo. I know Nowra, it makes it more immediate somehow.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer » 03 Jan 2020, 11:23

I wonder how far this smoke will travel?
Image

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 04 Jan 2020, 03:42

That's an impressive and frightening picture Tiz.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer » 04 Jan 2020, 10:31

You probably heard the two Aussies arguing about climate change on the Today programme this morning. A woman talking science, the man still trying to claim climate change was not involved and that the fires were due to not doing the old Aborigine controlled `hazard burning'. The lady had to point out to him that hazard burning had to be abandoned because the effects of climate change have made it too dangerous.

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 05 Jan 2020, 04:27

I did Tiz and it reminded me of a story I was told in NSW about a young fire officer discussing a problem patch of scrubland with a Tribal Elder. He was telling the old man that a controlled burn was too dangerous but the old bloke said Na, that's OK, struck a match and tossed it in. By the time the fire truck arrived the fire had burned itself out.
I understand the point about contributing to global warming but as is so often the case in differences between theory and practice circumstances alter cases. If a controlled back burn can prevent a larger fire I think it's still a strategy that's used on many occasions, not only in Australia.
Later, on an intervener ob World Service a NSW fire chief said that today's cooler and wet conditions will allow them to do some back burning to contain the fire fronts.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by chinatyke » 07 Jan 2020, 08:35

Today it is 31C in the shade on my balcony at 4pm. The historical weather data from www.Foreca.com shows an average of 15C high/8C low for this town with a minimum -1C low in 2003 and max 23C high in 2017. Their own website shows a current temp of 28C, so it is a new record high for us. A glorious winter for us so far, I love it! Still in short sleeves, no Damart in sight. Climate change or just a statistical outlier?

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer » 07 Jan 2020, 11:51

One thing that seems to be left out in the news about the Aussie forest fires is that they are always worse than in many other places because of the dense eucalyptus forests. The eucalyptus oil is volatile and very inflammable. The trees emit clouds of the vapour and ignition can lead to a fire flashing through the forest very fast. Individual trees have been known to explode. The Blue Mountains got their name from the blue haze caused by the eucalyptus oil vapour in the air.

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 08 Jan 2020, 04:30

Very true Tiz and my understanding is that Eucalyptus forests have evolved so that they need occasional fires to clear the underbrush and keep them viable. So it's a natural process.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer » 08 Jan 2020, 10:24

Yes, and other plants in the forests have evolved to survive by recovering from underground.

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 09 Jan 2020, 03:51

Pity the principle can't be extended to houses!
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer » 19 Jan 2020, 10:38

This is what I meant about the Aussie forest fires being fuelled by eucalyptus oil...
`Australia fires: Have gum trees made the bushfires worse?' LINK
Interesting to find that eucalyptus have been introduced into other parts of the world as a quick growing (therefore cheap) source of paper instead of native trees and are now adding to the fire hazard in those countries too (especially Portugal). At our last house we planted two eucalyptus and they'd grown to about 40 feet in 10 years when we decided they were too vigorous and cut them down. Then they kept sprouting from the roots!

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by chinatyke » 19 Jan 2020, 11:32

Tizer wrote:
19 Jan 2020, 10:38
This is what I meant about the Aussie forest fires being fuelled by eucalyptus oil...
`Australia fires: Have gum trees made the bushfires worse?' LINK
Interesting to find that eucalyptus have been introduced into other parts of the world as a quick growing (therefore cheap) source of paper instead of native trees and are now adding to the fire hazard in those countries too (especially Portugal). At our last house we planted two eucalyptus and they'd grown to about 40 feet in 10 years when we decided they were too vigorous and cut them down. Then they kept sprouting from the roots!
That's why they are planted here in southern China: a 10-years growing cycle to provide fodder for the local paper mill.

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