CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tripps » 01 Jun 2020, 10:37

I think that in the situation in which Government spending has increased 'exponentially' - to coin a phrase - and its income has decreased at a similar rate, any return to a functioning economy would be welcome and essential, and the time for adding 'bells and whistles' is not now.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 02 Jun 2020, 02:39

Sorry David but I disagree. Sensible Green policies are not 'bells and whistles', they are essential.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tripps » 02 Jun 2020, 12:15

We'll see what happens over the next year or two. I won't even write what I think in my more pessimistic moments. Survival of society rather than CO2 levels may be the priority. :sad:
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Whyperion » 02 Jun 2020, 18:48

It is more going to be what China, India and Brazil does. At the largest land masses capable of making and influencing change. I assume that NZ,Aus, Europe have bought into renewables and society change already, along with Canada. Russia remains unknown but I think it will collapse under C-19 and the USA split tensions are going to give the oddest presidential elections ever. If that New York govner is savvy it would not hurt him to run a bid unless he fears taking votes off the democrats.

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 03 Jun 2020, 02:13

I'll agree with that David and I don't think it's pessimistic, nearer to reality I think.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Whyperion » 03 Jun 2020, 17:51

one for tizer (or wendy?) I notice EDF are doing a bit of a confusing deal with ground source/heat pumps for working with LPG/oil boiler systems
as there are (limited by quota) govt incentives it might be worth doing.
https://www.edfenergy.com/for-home/ener ... on-heating

Future Heat hybrid heating system
Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) scheme allows EDF Energy to recover the cost of equipment and installing the hybrid heating system, minus the one-off charge of £99 (inc VAT).

Once the Future Heat system has been installed, you'll need to assign your RHI subsidy payments to us. You'll also need to register the system for any other scheme requirements.

there is a charge of Monthly smart control fee (for seven years) £14.99 (inc VAT)
but the grant - you could also receive the government MMSP incentive of £1,610.
so that might balance out, indeed if it is a lump sum and you are under 75bank the lump sum in a personal pension and collect 25% govt subsidy on that too, invest appropriatley (difficult I know ) and that shoud chip in about £7 a quarter lump growth.

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer » 04 Jun 2020, 09:09

Tripps wrote:
02 Jun 2020, 12:15
We'll see what happens over the next year or two. I won't even write what I think in my more pessimistic moments. Survival of society rather than CO2 levels may be the priority. :sad:
I understand your concerns Tripps but survival of society and CO2 levels are inextricably linked. Both have to be dealt with and on a global level.

Pluggy is the man to ask about hybrid heating systems and I think he's been planning an air source system for his house. Ground source is OK if you have a large area of land (like Wendy) or a small river/large stream or lake.

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer » 05 Jun 2020, 08:59

It often depresses me to see so much money spent by billionaires on vanity projects when some of that cash would help us deal with the climate crisis. Here's the Professor of Climate Physics at the University of Oxford who feels the same...
`Can computers solve UK weird weather puzzle?' LINK
`A top climate scientist has called for more investment in climate computing to explain the UK’s recent topsy-turvy weather. Prof Tim Palmer from Oxford University said there were still too many unknowns in climate forecasting. And in the month the SpaceX launch grabbed headlines, he said just one of the firm's billions could transform climate modelling....“It is very frustrating to see space get quite so much attention when we can’t be sure what will happen to the climate on Earth. If only we could secure one of their billions for computer modelling that would be a big help”...

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Whyperion » 05 Jun 2020, 10:14

Interesting running modelling without some of the factor inputs like rising and risen CO2 to see what 'normal' weather might look like and is the present weather 'normal'

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Pluggy » 05 Jun 2020, 12:14

Somebody rattled my cage regarding heat pumps. My understanding is that the RHI (renewable heat incentive) government system isn't available for hybrid heating systems. It depends on an inspection of your premises where they evaluate the insulation and estimate how much heat you will need to keep the place warm and you are paid on that when you change over to a heat pump system (Ground or Air Source). Having a hybrid system makes it difficult / impossible to determine how much of the heating is produced by the Oil/Gas/LPG boiler and how much is coming from the heat pump system. I had to tear out the my gas boiler and depend entirely on a heat pump. It has to be fitted by an approved installer and its costly (I was quoted £8000 for my small terraced property), I'd probably get that back of the course of the 7 years the RHI runs for, Heat pumps have some caveats which are often talked around or down played by those with a vested interest in selling you a system, The present thinking in the pluggy household is a homebrew hybrid system where I keep the gas boiler to use when the heat pump will struggle or get inefficient / expensive (basically when it gets very cold) and as a standby if the heat pump is on the blink. I'd do it myself but I'm pretty much disabled now, so I'm looking at hiring a handyman to work under my instruction. I perceive plumbers to be expensive and I suspect few will have a clue about installing a heat pump anyway. I'm thimking about half the cost of going the processional RHI route and I get to keep the gas. Maybe in the future when the heat pump has proven itself and climate change has made last winter more typical and not freakishly mild , I'll go down the route of getting shut of the gas bill.

On a side note with the ridiculous amount of sunshine we've had this spring, the FIT payments for my solar panels this quarter are the highest ever and spring has always played second fiddle to the summer payments.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 06 Jun 2020, 02:37

"On a side note with the ridiculous amount of sunshine we've had this spring, the FIT payments for my solar panels this quarter are the highest ever and spring has always played second fiddle to the summer payments."
So it must be a record Spring, Pluggs says so!
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer » 06 Jun 2020, 09:32

Thanks for the update Pluggy and I wish you luck with the project and with finding a suitable `green' plumber. :smile:

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Whyperion » 06 Jun 2020, 18:11

Pluggy wrote:
05 Jun 2020, 12:14
Somebody rattled my cage regarding heat pumps. My understanding is that the RHI (renewable heat incentive) government system isn't available for hybrid heating systems. It depends on an inspection of your premises where they evaluate the insulation and estimate how much heat you will need to keep the place warm and you are paid on that when you change over to a heat pump system (Ground or Air Source). Having a hybrid system makes it difficult / impossible to determine how much of the heating is produced by the Oil/Gas/LPG boiler and how much is coming from the heat pump system. I had to tear out the my gas boiler and depend entirely on a heat pump. It has to be fitted by an approved installer and its costly (I was quoted £8000 for my small terraced property), I'd probably get that back of the course of the 7 years the RHI runs for, Heat pumps have some caveats which are often talked around or down played by those with a vested interest in selling you a system, The present thinking in the pluggy household is a homebrew hybrid system where I keep the gas boiler to use when the heat pump will struggle or get inefficient / expensive (basically when it gets very cold) and as a standby if the heat pump is on the blink. I'd do it myself but I'm pretty much disabled now, so I'm looking at hiring a handyman to work under my instruction. I perceive plumbers to be expensive and I suspect few will have a clue about installing a heat pump anyway. I'm thimking about half the cost of going the processional RHI route and I get to keep the gas. Maybe in the future when the heat pump has proven itself and climate change has made last winter more typical and not freakishly mild , I'll go down the route of getting shut of the gas bill.

On a side note with the ridiculous amount of sunshine we've had this spring, the FIT payments for my solar panels this quarter are the highest ever and spring has always played second fiddle to the summer payments.
I THINK that is what I found on the EDF ? page. More small print was a monthly charge for maintenance/safety inspections. For LPG/Oil I think you can keep the bolier. For Gas supply I dont know - space heating is one thing, a warm shower if with kids another. I suspect unless you have a large flank wall losing heat there is little benefit for a single terraced house. Now if you were landlord of three or four in a run or one of the large farmhouses / villas up the higher points of Manchester Road or mid-range commercial buildings where there is a larger demand - more bedrooms etc, then there is scope for the Heat Pump alternatives.

As to winters, the UK is a narrow bit of land where the smallest change in a low or high pressure system can get us airflow from the South, The East, The North or The West at any time and for any duration, so the 1963 winter could never be ruled out again - at least in the present lifetimes - since even if the Artic does warm it is still colder than UK normally is or is likely to be, if the Gulf Stream packs up as the artic warms (from cold to not quite so cold), it will be bone-chilling in the UK in the winter.

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Whyperion » 07 Jun 2020, 00:10

more for pluggy, or anyone in rainy lancashire.

in gutter /downpipe turbines for your own hydro-electric

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6oNxckjEiEand associated suggestions

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Pluggy » 07 Jun 2020, 13:25

I came across that video last week. I dismissed it as a waste of time. Barely enough power to charge a mobile phone and only when its raining ... The solar panels will at least run the heat pump when the sun is shining.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 08 Jun 2020, 02:17

Can anyone remember the Lucas Freelite systems? A lot of farms had them before the mains arrived. A car dynamo with a windmill mounted on the spindle . They were quite effective but only low-vo for lighting.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Whyperion » 08 Jun 2020, 13:52

Are lighterwieght alternators with a rectifier better and more efficient.
The in drain turbines - maybe if fitted in multiple on a tall building (tower block, church)

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Whyperion » 09 Jun 2020, 08:03

BBC Website reports
" Great Britain is about to pass a significant landmark - at midnight on Wednesday it will have gone two full months without burning coal to generate power.

A decade ago about 40% of the country's electricity came from coal; coronavirus is part of the story, but far from all.[BBC Does not explain fully]

When Britain went into lockdown, electricity demand plummeted; the National Grid responded by taking power plants off the network.

The four remaining coal-fired plants were among the first to be shut down.

The last coal generator came off the system at midnight on 9 April. No coal has been burnt for electricity since. "

Drax is basically burning wood pellets from USA Forests. Which wont exactly help the pound to dollar cost. Also there is a CO2 cost on shipping movements, so it is not wholly the answer to pollution and energy consumption.

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer » 10 Jun 2020, 08:39

The Russian Arctic oil spill goes from bad to worse...
`Russian Arctic oil spill pollutes big lake near Norilsk' LINK
`Diesel oil from a huge spill in Russia's Arctic north has polluted a large freshwater lake and there is a risk it could spread into the Arctic Ocean, a senior Russian official says. Emergency teams are trying to contain the oil, which has now travelled about 20km (12 miles) north of Norilsk from a collapsed fuel tank. It is the worst accident of its kind in modern times in Russia's Arctic region, environmentalists and officials say. The oil started leaking on 29 May. So far about 21,000 tonnes have contaminated the Ambarnaya river and surrounding subsoil....The power plant where it happened is run by a subsidiary of Norilsk Nickel, the world's leading nickel and palladium producer....Greenpeace has compared it to the 1989 Exxon Valdez disaster in Alaska...'.

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 11 Jun 2020, 02:48

And I will repeat, if it is (as reported) same fraction as diesel oil it will be impossible to clean up, it diffuses too rapidly and pollutes greater areas.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer » 11 Jun 2020, 09:05

Seeing and hearing the George Floyd supporters taking up the call `I Can't Breathe' prompts me to suggest that climate change and environmental campaigners should adopt the same call. The pollution and increasing temperatures globally will lead to a situation where we'll all be saying `I Can't Breathe' and if nothing is done we'll eventually all be as dead as George Floyd.

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 12 Jun 2020, 03:54

Unfortunately that's the way the evidence is pointing Tiz. What a commentary on the way we 'manage' our environment. It's already true in some polluted streets in our major cities.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Whyperion » 17 Jun 2020, 20:14

Elon Musk and related items related to better Lithium Salt recovery and Battery efficiency. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53067009 to me the obvious is for Battery Packs to be rented, if charging for 300 miles cannot be done quickly changeable packs would also be useful.

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 22 Jun 2020, 12:14

Nowt on the web yet but a late report that a town in Siberia has recorded the highest Arctic temperature ever, "as warm as Florida". 38C was recorded.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 23 Jun 2020, 03:09

LINK for the BBC report on the 38C temperature in the Arctic.
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