MEDICAL MATTERS

[Tardis]

Richard, how nice to hear of a good outcome. Just imagine what that would have cost in the US! Nye did a good job......

It is a good result

I dare say that it cost the NHS a substantial amount too, and the taxpayer

Remember that in the US all those doctors pay the full price for their education too, and repayments have to reflect that model. Very difficult to make direct comparisons unless it is in outcomes

[Tizer]

..and my anaemia may be treated with EPO, so I'll not be entering any cycling events in the near future

Make sure your medics are not fond of alternative remedies or they might read EPO as Evening Primrose Oil, that was what the abbreviation meant until erythropoetin came into the limelight!

[Stanley]

"I dare say that it cost the NHS a substantial amount too, and the taxpayer"

Of course it did but you know fine that the point is that it was free at the point of use to the user. That's the whole point (and beauty ) of the NHS. Could you afford to go private?

[Tardis]

"I dare say that it cost the NHS a substantial amount too, and the taxpayer"

Of course it did but you know fine that the point is that it was free at the point of use to the user. That's the whole point (and beauty ) of the NHS. Could you afford to go private?

The point I make is that the NHS is paid for out of National Insurance, and I did once upon a time have private health insurance, it was very useful for dental treatment too. It isn't free, and never has been, just no one wishes to be accountable for the spending.

Likewise in the US, they do have Medicaid and Medicare which ensures that no one is denied medical care.

Does the US equivalent of NICE restrict access to new treatments?

I see from today's Lancashire Telegraph that GP's want to charge between £5-£25 to visit your GP

[Stanley]

"Likewise in the US, they do have Medicaid and Medicare which ensures that no one is denied medical care."

Do you really believe that!? When did anyone in the UK commit suicide because they couldn't get access to basic medical care without bankrupting their family? People with long term medical conditions who can't afford the medication. Both common in the US.

[Tardis]

"Likewise in the US, they do have Medicaid and Medicare which ensures that no one is denied medical care."

Do you really believe that!? When did anyone in the UK commit suicide because they couldn't get access to basic medical care without bankrupting their family? People with long term medical conditions who can't afford the medication. Both common in the US.

I am not aware of these scare stories, I am aware of friends in the US who have had to fight to get Medicaid and Medicare, one of which was a WWII vet who the US law states is entitled to free health care. They go it in the end.

You pay your insurance and the system should be robust enough to stand up to challenges

[Tardis]

..and my anaemia may be treated with EPO, so I'll not be entering any cycling events in the near future

Make sure your medics are not fond of alternative remedies or they might read EPO as Evening Primrose Oil, that was what the abbreviation meant until erythropoetin came into the limelight!

Cerainly need something to alleviate the tiredness, but Evening Primrose Oil might just send me to sleep

[Tizer]

Cerainly need something to alleviate the tiredness, but Evening Primrose Oil might just send me to sleep

Well, taking Evening Primrose Oil would mean that at least you wouldn't suffer from pre-menstrual tension!

[Tardis]

Cerainly need something to alleviate the tiredness, but Evening Primrose Oil might just send me to sleep

Well, taking Evening Primrose Oil would mean that at least you wouldn't suffer from pre-menstrual tension!

[Stanley]

They aren't scare stories, they are the hard facts of life in a system where health care is commercial. A friend's uncle committed suicide and I have other friends who can attest to people with long term conditions not being able to afford basic medication. Have you never seen news reports of the enormous queues when free medical care events are held? Why do you think Clinton and Obama risked their political careers to improve Medicare and Medicaid and both failed?

[Tardis]

Oh long term conditions. I've never heard of funding being refused for acute conditions. I know a lot of folk on pre/post transplant in the US

In this country, with our medical insurance scheme, you can't even guarantee to be treated like a human being if you have a chronic condition.

In this country if you get an altruistic donor, you can't even guarantee that you will receive that donation, until very recently and then it might have to be tied altruism, despite the fact that a transplanted person could save the NHS over £500k over 10 years versus dialysis, not to mention quality of life etc

& no, I do not want a system where organs are for sale

[EileenDavid]

I can only speak as I find our NHS and I have received excellent treatment from the nursing staff and doctors. The problem with the NHS is too many administration staff bleeding it dry and behaving as though they are the most important people. Sack the lot and employ more medical staff that would be an improvement. Eileen

[Tizer]

I can only speak as I find our NHS and I have received excellent treatment from the nursing staff and doctors...

I'd say exactly the same but with the qualification "..as far as they can manage, taking into account the shortage of staff and the need to do paperwork etc". We've been let down a number of times due to nurses not having enough time to deal with so many patients at once. Not usually their fault, but caused by flaws in the system of management.

[Marilyn]

As you know, my husband was in hospital twice recently, dreadfully sick...the first time with Septicaemia ( which required two operations and every test known to man, including bone scans and ultrasounds and daily blood tests and X-rays. A week of that was spent in Intensive Care.)
The second admission was a couple of weeks later...infection in the heart had caused blockages to three major arteries. He suffered a heart attack and had three stents inserted ( by three surgeons) in a 90 minute operation.
Yesterday we got the account for the second admission.
It was over £20,000. The breakdown in costs showed the ninety minute theatre cost alone was £6,500 of that bill.
We have private medical insurance...and paid NOTHING toward the bill.
We all moan about paying health insurance, which is compulsory here if you earn over £20,000 per year.
We certainly aren't complaining!
( there were other specialist and pharmacy bills we had to pay, but 'peanuts' compared to the hospital bill. ( between the two hospital admissions, the accounts totalled over £30,000).

[LizG]

We all pay health insurance in the hope that we never have to use it. I know we've paid for years with only minor claims.

It's comforting to know that it made things easier in your case. Bad enough that you had to go through the stress of the situation without having to face an horrendous bill at the end of it all. Good result all round, but I hope you never need it again.

[Marilyn]

I am seriously considering framing that account, Liz!
My jaw dropped to see it.

I am always complaining that I never use our health insurance ( I have the constitution of a draught horse and never get anything worse than the odd sore throat/ viral illness).
But I never want to be as sick as that poor man was...

[Stanley]

Good thing you were covered Maz. We are so lucky here of course in that we have the NHS. Wonderful service.....

[Marilyn]

Of course, we have free medical treatment for the unemployed, pensioners and the working poor, which is mostly free ( if not heavily funded).
But we do not have a 'cradle to grave' free system.
The system we do have is quite overloaded....those that pay little or nothing taking up the major need and availability of services...meaning waiting lists for those without private insurance blow out of all proportion. ( I recall Cazza waiting almost 12 months for a spinal appointment at the public hospital last year).
There is little we can do about that unless they find a fairer system where perhaps means testing works to promote a co-payment from everyone, depending on their circumstance ( I am afraid I do not see why people who choose not to work get free anything! OAP's would get better services if the lazy were forced to contribute something)

I think we have the perfect balance between the stress of getting sick in USA and the poor service/long waiting lists/limited choices of the UK system.

[Tizer]

A big advantage of the NHS approach to funding health care was shown when a few weeks ago it looked like I might have a gallstone. Tests were quickly arranged, including an ultrasound scan, but they all proved negative and the pain went and hasn't returned. If I was paying privately it would have cost me a LOT of money for the tests with little to show for it...and if the pain returns I'll have to have them again, and the cycle could be repeated a number of times.

[Marilyn]

I understand that Tiz, and that would be luck of the draw here ( pay and pay again here).
What I am saying is that if everyone paid SOMETHING ( if means test suggested the unemployed pay £10 for a service I had to pay £ 500...then there would be more in the communal 'pot' for expensive X-ray machines etc) and it would deter the people who turn up in Casualty with simple colds because they don't want to pay for a doctor ( who will tell them they only have a cold and are not dying).

[EileenDavid]

I don't think that the system should be means tested the unemployed etc haven't paid in so they are the ones who should have to pay together with all the imigrants who also haven't paid in half of whom only come over to us to get treated on the free I have heard that Spain are asking for an insurance document now before they will treat anyone from the UK. Not the E11 and if you haven't got additional travel insurance they want a credit card. Why don't we do the same? Eileen

[Cathy]

I volunteer 2 days each week at our local hospital. One of the departments that I help in is the accident and emergency department / switchboard ( i help the admin girls ), recently I was part of a conversation relating to payments. Every patient that comes in has to fill out forms and is asked for their medicare card (our government issued healthcare card), if they have one it means that their treatment will be free, if they don't, they have to pay $300. If they have private medical insurance, a bill for $300 will be given to them and they then claim it back from their insurer. It raises 'alarm bells' if they don't have either but I have no idea what the ensueing procedure is. You have to be a legal resident to get one. If you are from England (all of the UK ?) or New Zealand and you are here on holidays, our governments have a special aggreement and will treat you in a public hospital for free. Ambulances are not covered.

We have recently started having adverts on tele telling us that our medicare cards are like gold to us.

[Marilyn]

I don't want to single out any particular groups in society, though it is a fact that we pay dearly for health care to asylum seekers ( some of whom are not true asylum seekers).
The poor and vulnerable always need humane treatment, and I do not have a problem with that at all, and it should be provided in a way that always preserves dignity. Same with our old folk/ex-service people etc. we owe them a debt of gratitude. Similarly, the young need access to the best care...a parent's ability to pay should never prevent treatment.
(We probably all agree with these principles)

But just as an example, we have people in our neighbourhood who are on Methadone program's. ( great...they are getting the help they are willing to accept and it has to be good for both the individuals and community in return). But I do question that these same individuals, who once spent money, time, energy etc feeding their habits now get government paid taxi rides to and from a Methadone dispensing Chemist just ten minutes walk from their homes, twice a day! Have they suddenly lost the use of their legs? Why do they need more help to get Methadone than they did to get whatever they sourced and used previously? And...is it doing any good that there is now no requirement from them to at least make the effort to walk the ten minutes to the Chemist?

On the flip side, are the sad stories of couples mortgaging their homes for IVF treatment. ( now they could really do with some help). I feel for them.

[Cathy]

I'm sure there are particular groups of people out there that know how to milk the system, if they were denied they would probably kick up a stink and then the government would be accused of racism or class discrimination.

[Marilyn]

Correct Cazza.
And, as I tried to explain before, certain groups usage of the system make it 'top heavy' and the only way to recoup the costs needed for expensive treatment and machinery ( MRI scanners etc) is to overcharge those that can afford to pay.
Years ago now, I had to collect a medication from a hospital pharmacy. It was a horrendous price. ( it may have been an Inhaler for my son? Can't recall now). I queried the cost, as I had paid less in the past. I was told that prices were 'loaded' for those who could afford to pay, to subsidise those who got the same medication free.
Fair enough...I am all for 'helping others out' but why did I have to subsidise another THREE people getting that medication for free.
Come on! That is not fair at all.
Something has to give.