DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

[plaques]

Snake in the grass
A treacherous person, This metaphor for treachery, alluding to a poisonous snake concealed in tall grass, was used in 37 b.c. by the Roman poet Virgil ( latet anguis in herba). It was first recorded in English in 1696 as the title of a book by Charles Leslie.

Could be applied to a number of MP's on both sides of the house.

[Tripps]

I just heard a tennis commentator say of a doubles pair -

'they get on like a house on fire'

We've all heard it, but what on earth is the link between being good friends, and a burning building.

[Stanley]

Shock value?

[Tizer]

I just heard a tennis commentator say of a doubles pair - 'they get on like a house on fire'
We've all heard it, but what on earth is the link between being good friends, and a burning building.

Brewer's Digest says it's derived from the days when houses were made of timber and thatch, would burn fast if they caught fire and you couldn't stop the fire. So it implies when the two friends met they would talk enthusiastically and you couldn't stop them!

[Tripps]

Thanks for that - sounds credible. I just couldn't imagine any connection.

[Stanley]

Have you ever noticed a field with an isolated short length of wall in the centre? In this area it is called a 'beal or beald' wall and is to give livestock shelter in inclement weather. I went digging to see whether I could find any root for the word and the only thing I can find is that a Celtic god associated with the sun was called Beal.

[cloghopper]

Hello everybody, talking to no. 1 son in Ireland yesterday who lives in Galway, we got on to the subject of Gaelic. Does anybody on the forum know or remember Dale's farmers counting their sheep in a form of Gaelic? I'm sure my dad at one point tried to teach me, or told me about it.
many thanks,
cloggy

[Wendyf]

Yan, tan, tethera. Here

[Tripps]

Ref Beal.
I was going to mention Beal Lane in Shaw near Oldham, then find you've done it for me by speaking of the River Beal on What attracted your attention thread. Is there a connection.

[PanBiker]

Hello everybody, talking to no. 1 son in Ireland yesterday who lives in Galway, we got on to the subject of Gaelic. Does anybody on the forum know or remember Dale's farmers counting their sheep in a form of Gaelic? I'm sure my dad at one point tried to teach me, or told me about it.
many thanks,
cloggy

My paternal Grandfather was a Dalesman from Dent and from the farming community he used this counting method. It was passed to my dad who mentioned the usage to me. Sally's Uncle Joe who is a Hawe's man who we visit when we are up that way also uses a variant, he counted off the field barns we could see on a recent walk we had together reported in another thread.

[cloghopper]

Thanks Wendy, fascinating article. And thanks other posters, glad I wasn't imagining things.
best regards,
cloggy

[Stanley]

River Beal runs through Shaw David. No connection that I am aware of.

[Tizer]

I saw a discussion in the newspaper recently about the difference between a pie and a tart. There was debate about which should have a top and/or a bottom, and whether there were regional differences.

[cloghopper]

I saw a discussion in the newspaper recently about the difference between a pie and a tart. There was debate about which should have a top and/or a bottom, and whether there were regional differences.

Isn't it just a question of savoury or sweet?
best rgds,
cloggy

[Tizer]

Ooh no, much more complicated than that! The responses from readers showed that there were regional differences and also different opinions between individuals within the regions. Disagreements abounded over whether or not they should have pastry tops and bottoms. I think the conclusion would have to be `it's whatever you think it is!

[Marilyn]

Here in OZ, there is a world of difference between a Pie, a Pastie, and a Tart. ( then of course, there are the Vegetarian versions of them)
I have had your English Pies and Pasties and you have some very confusing flavours. (Some I have screwed my nose up and just don't fancy... I remember recounting them to Cathy when I got home and saying our pie fillings were English Pastie fillings)
Tarts can be savoury or sweet.
Then there is the Quiche....and the Fritatta...

[Tizer]

A pie, to me, was always completely enclosed in pastry. I was brought up on delicious `potato pie' from Mrs Williamson's corner shop where the bakery was in the outhouse at the back. It wouldn't have impressed the nutritionists of today but was what we needed then - cheap and filling! It was filled with potato and one small piece of beef for flavour (or two if it was your lucky day). Later we would eat `pie and peas' in the pub which was always the same type of potato pie and served with mushy peas. It went down a treat with a glass of beer. It came as a shock when I began to venture afield and was faced with other foods described as `pie'!

[Marilyn]

To us, Pies are either round or square with a stout pastry base and perhaps a flaky or short pastry top, with a meat/chicken/gravy filling. Some may have a curry flavour. Some may have Cheese added. Some may have a Potato Topping instead of Pastry. Some may have a Potato topping with crumbled Bacon.
Pasties are half circle shape ( one straight side and one half moon side) and filled with a Veg only/ or Veg Cheese/ or Veg and Lamb filling. They have a short crust pastry as a rule...and are never square or filled with such odd things as Corned Beef ( which I have seen in UK).
Honestly, I never knew if I wanted a Pastie or a Pie over there, as shapes/pastry/fillings were all different.
We have the traditional Cornish Pastie here too...though there is a meat with veg /purely Veg choice.
Of course...then there are "gourmet fillings" to Pies ( usually a local thing) such as Tuna and Sweetcorn or Cheese and Leek or Goulash.
Pork Pies are generally not a Bakery item. They are usually sold by (English) Butchers. They have stout pastry all round and are taller than the average Bakery Pie.
Pies and Pasties are designed to be eaten using one hand, without dribbles or spillage or pastry failure. I had quite a few floppy ones in England that didn't live up to that requirement.

[Tizer]

And then to confuse the issue even further there are mince pies...which don't contain any of what I grew up to know as `mince' (minced meat). Of course, they did contain meat in days gone by when our ancestors had no qualms about mixing meat with fruit nuts, sherry etc. It was a benefit in those days when the meat might well be `past its sell by date' and moving about due to the wildlife growing in it.

[Stanley]

For me, pies have tops, tarts don't.....
How long since you heard anyone talk about 'twang toed' or 'pigeon toed'?

[Tizer]

I don't recall ever hearing `twang toed' but I think I remember 'pigeon toed being used.

On the radio this morning I heard John McDonnell refer to `fiscal and monetary policy'. Why say that - isn't `monetary' part of `fiscal'? It's all finance.

[Whyperion]

Confusingly Fiscal Policy relates to taxation, and how much , on what, at what time, is levied normally by central government.
Monetary Policy used to be in the old days credit restraints, fixed exchange rates, interest rates, sometimes controlled by government, sometimes target outsourced to 'independent' central banks. Many chancellors don't have the savvy to note how they are interlinked and how short term decisions have long term unintended consequences.

[Tizer]

Thanks Whippy, it doesn't help when the bankers and politicians decide the words have their jargon meanings rather than what they originally meant. Another bee in my bonnet is when the media people use the word `technology' and think it only refers to digital stuff. It's as if there was no such thing as technology until around 1990 when Bill Gates got going with Windows. The men and women who built Stonehenge were engaging in technology but I'll bet those media people wouldn't know how to move and lift heavy blocks of rock!

[Tripps]

I've just discovered that -

Myristicivorous means ‘devouring or habitually feeding upon nutmegs’.

That'll be me then - mostly on porridge.

[Stanley]

I had Myristicivorous white sauce with my cauliflower yesterday.....