DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

[Whyperion]

I always thought Ackle was 'to be connected' as in these wires wont ackel (when solidering for example) and ex-military Royal Engineers. where they got it from I dont know

[Stanley]

Never heard of Ackle.....

[Bodger]

Am i right in thinking there is /was a word addle ie. to earn , addle some brass ?

[Tizer]

I don't know that one Bodger, perhaps Barlickers will know it?

Reading Obama's book I saw him refer to the `emcee'. He meant the MC, master of ceremonies.

[PanBiker]

Addled Eggs for bad ones.

[Stanley]

Yes Bodge, addle some brass was common. I always thought it might originate in 'handle'.... Then I looked it up... HERE'S what Wiktionary has to say and we are into urine and dung. I'll leave you to sort it out!

[Sue]

I have a question

Its FELL in Cumbria and the North East, its MOORS or MOORLAND. In Lancashire . Are these the same thing, words with different origins and what is the equivalent down south. Is it just HEATHLAND.
Where does a fell become a moor

[Stanley]

That's an interesting question Sue.....
Etymology of moor: "From Middle English mor, from Old English mōr, from Proto-Germanic *mōraz, from Proto-Indo-European *móri. Cognates include Welsh môr, Old Irish muir (from Proto-Celtic *mori); Scots muir, Dutch moer, Old Saxon mōr, Old Saxon mūr, German Moor and perhaps also Gothic 𐌼𐌰𐍂𐌴𐌹 (marei)."
Etymology of fell: "From Old Norse fell, fjall (“rock, mountain”), compare Norwegian Bokmål fjell 'mountain', from Proto-Germanic *felzą, *fel(e)zaz, *falisaz (compare German Felsen 'boulder, cliff', Middle Low German vels 'hill, mountain'), from Proto-Indo-European *pelso; compare Irish aill (“boulder, cliff”), Ancient Greek πέλλα (pélla, “stone”), Pashto پرښه‎ (parṣ̌a, “rock, rocky ledge”), Sanskrit पाषाण (pāşāņá, “stone”). Doublet of fjeld."
So Sue, The two words mean basically the same thing, a high and relatively infertile stretch of land. I think the big clue with fell is "From Old Norse fell, fjall (“rock, mountain”)", it's those Vikings again seeding our language with there's as they settled down to live with us.
Heath is more a lower and more level area of relatively infertile soil, often sandy. The etymolgy is:"From Middle English heeth, heth, hethe, from Old English hǣþ (“heath, untilled land, waste; heather”), from Proto-Germanic *haiþī (“heath, waste, untilled land”), from Proto-Indo-European *kayt- (“forest, wasteland, pasture”). Cognate with Dutch heide (“heath, moorland”), German Heide (“heath, moor”), Norwegian hei (“heath”), Swedish hed (“heath, moorland”), Old Welsh coit (“forest”), Welsh coed (“forest”), Latin būcētum (“pastureland”, literally “cow-pasture”) -cetum (“place of, grove of”). " As you can see this is a more central European set of antecedents and reflects on who had the greatest influence.
So it looks as though the answer to Fell and Moor is the degree of Scandinavian influence.

[Stanley]

On another matter... I heard a report about quarantining travellers in hotels and noted once again the fact that 'the government is working at pace on this'. We seem to get fashions in the language used by the spin doctors, 'working night and day' is another one. What exactly do these phrases mean? We all know that the answer is nothing, but they sound good in a sentence and if people aren't analysing what is being used can give the impression of an administration straining every sinew to get progress.
Do we really believe this?

[Sue]

Thank you very much, very interesting. We were watching Vera and they were referring to the fells, which of course I knew being from there. However we we were incomers and always referred to the moors generally when we lived there as Dad was Lancastrian . So i wonder where exactly geographically tge word changes

[plaques]

My layman's interpretation relies on the classification of 'fell running' ie: associated with the Three peeks race, lots of steep ups and downs, whereas moors have a gradual undulation connotation. Not very scientific but it will do for me.

[Tripps]

I thought about this, but can't compete with Stanley's in depth reply - summarised as

So it looks as though the answer to Fell and Moor is the degree of Scandinavian influence.

which is the conclusion I came to as well.

[Stanley]

[Tizer]

No fells down where I live! Mineralogical names use feld and fels, as in feldspar (rock crystal) and hornfels (horn rock). Mountains are fels in Swedish and Norwegian, bergs in German and Danish.

[Stanley]

Every time I think about the origin of the word moor I hear Paul Robeson in my head singing The Peat-Bog Soldiers (Moorsoldaten), a song that originated in the inter war concentration camps in Germany.

[Tripps]

Great minds think alike. . . I spent a while checking it out on Youtube yesterday, but couldn't find the version I have by the Highwaymen on a 50 year old vinyl record. I've dug deeper (no pun intended) and found it now. Die Moorsoldaten

I think it means just a little bit more to me than most - as I was stationed not far from Bergen Belsen in Lower Saxony for a few years, and visited the place once. You don't forget things like that.

I found this which is worth reading - not sure how true it is.

"Peat Bog Soldiers" (Die Moorsoldaten) is one of Europe's best-known protest songs. It exists in countless European languages and became a Republican anthem during the Spanish Civil War. It was a symbol of resistance during the Second World War and is popular with the Peace movement today. It was written, composed and first performed in a Nazi concentration camp by prisoners.

This song was written by prisoners in Nazi moorland labour camps in Lower Saxony, Germany. The Emslandlager– as they were known – were for political opponents of the Third Reich.

In 1933, one camp, Börgermoor, held about 1,000 Socialist and Communist internees. They were banned from singing existing political songs so they wrote and composed their own. The words were written by Johann Esser (a miner) and Wolfgang Langhoff (an actor); the music was composed by Rudi Goguel and was later adapted by Hanns Eisler and Ernst Busch.

It was first performed at a Zircus Konzentrani ("concentration camp circus") on 28 August 1933 at Börgermoor camp.

The sixteen singers, mostly members of the Solinger workers choir, marched in holding spades over the shoulders of their green police uniforms (our prison uniforms at the time). I led the march, in blue overalls, with the handle of a broken spade for a conductor's baton. We sang and by the end of the second verse nearly all of the thousands of prisoners present gave voice to the chorus. With each verse, the chorus became more powerful and, by the end, the SS – who had turned up with their officers – were also singing, apparently because they too thought themselves "peat bog soldiers".

When they got to, ... "No more the peat bog soldiers

Will march with our spades to the moor.", the sixteen singers rammed their spades into the ground and marched out of the arena; leaving behind their spades which now had, sticking out of the peat bog, become crosses.

[Stanley]

I think you've found a bit of a gem there David. Certainly what I have believed ever since I learned about protest in the inter war years and the early internment camps.
I've never heard that version before. It's good but I still prefer my Robeson... (LINK)

[Tripps]

I came across this today - I like it.

'Factose intolerant'

[Stanley]

Does it mean what I think it means? If so there are too many of them about.....

[Stanley]

One thing about reading historical novels like Shardlake is that you get exposed to archaic words. A common one is 'coif' which I knew meant a head covering but I had a furtle to make sure...
"late 13c., "close-fitting cap," from Old French coife "skull-cap, cap worn under a helmet, headgear" (12c., Modern French coiffe), from Late Latin coifa "a cap, hood" (source of Italian cuffia, Spanish cofia, escofia), of West Germanic origin (compare Old High German kupphia, Middle High German kupfe "cap"). As "light cap of lace worn by women," mid-15c."



Worn by men as well as women, it was often a badge of office. in Shardlake's case, as a law officer when in formal dress.

[Tizer]

I haven't heard hullabaloo for a long time. I wonder where it came from (and where it's gone!)?

[Stanley]

See THIS Peter. Looks as though it could have started as a reference to the shouts of huntsmen and from there moved to any general disturbance.
I was looking at the word 'conniption' (Going into a tizz about something). I first heard it being used by my Jewish friends in NY and assumed it was a Yiddish root. I find that this is not the case, it is a modern American word. You learn something new every day. (What happens when your head gets full?)

[Tizer]

On another matter... I heard a report about quarantining travellers in hotels and noted once again the fact that 'the government is working at pace on this'. We seem to get fashions in the language used by the spin doctors...

The use of `at pace' seems to have suddenly gone ballistic. I heard Hancock use it several times in one interview. Whatever happened to quickly, promptly, speedily etc? And does Hancock use `at pace' to mean the same as those words or is it superfluous and he simply means `the government is working on this', i.e. padding out his sentence?

[PanBiker]

Who's pace? Usain Bolt, Moh Farrah, yours or mine? It's total nonsensical usage. Like you say just sound bite padding.

[Stanley]

The other one popular at the moment is 'working night and day'.
Oh no they're not!