FORGOTTEN CORNERS

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 18 May 2020, 03:32

One of the big changes in life over the last century has been the way home entertainment has changed. (Another aspect of my present pre-occupation with boredom)
One of the facets of life which constantly re-surfaced in my interviews for the LTP was the prevalence of music in the home. Almost every household had a couple of musical instruments, in some cases as things got easier a piano or harmonium. Violins and woodwinds were common and being portable were taken to neighbour's houses where they combined often resulting in ad-hoc ensembles like quartets. Further afield there were at least three orchestras in the town and of course in the early days the silent cinemas had orchestras to accompany the films. Have a look at Arthur Entwistle and Mrs Clarke in particular. Let's not forget the brass bands either, Barlick and Earby both had good ones. My mate Newton Pickles had an electric organ and was a good player. He and Olive his wife used to go to pubs at weekend where Newton played for the customers
Choirs were common, especially in the churches and chapels and very high levels of accomplishment were common. In those days oratorios were common and very well known singers performed regularly. As a lad I heard Kathleen Ferrier, Owen Brannigan, Isobel Baillie and Heddle Nash in Stockport, all largely forgotten names today. In Earby Hedley Bradshaw's wife Sophia was told by Kathleen Ferrier that she should sing professionally as she had such a wonderful contralto voice.

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Here's Hedley and Sophia with a friend Joan in 2002. I never heard her sing but have been assured it was a treat.
I'm sure that music is still important but in different ways. Perhaps it is the actual playing of an instrument and the chance to perform publicly that has declined. One more forgotten corner.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 20 May 2020, 03:36

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Hedley Bradshaw, Arnold Brown and Newton Pickles at Bancroft opening steaming in 1982. Hedley was engineer at Spring Mill in Earby, Arnold Brown lived in Salterforth and taught Newton to play his Hammond Organ and of course Newton Pickles. All good friends and all dead now so definitely a forgotten corner!
Newton had his opinions about the engineers in charge of all the engines he looked after and always said that Hedley wasn't really a natural engineer but was a good engine tenter because he had good routines and noticed things. One day he rang Newton and told him he was worried about the engine because he had a little tune he whistled as he oiled it and that morning the engine wasn't in time with his whistling. Newton didn't dismiss this but went down to have a listen. Sure enough, Hedley was right, Newton realised one of the valve eccentrics had slipped and the timing was wrong. They stopped the engine at dinnertime, Newton attended to the eccentric and after dinner Hedley tested it against his whistle and pronounced it cured. As Newton said, Hedley hadn't a clue as to what was up but he knew there was something and did exactly the right thing.
I love it and miss the old codgers!
That's reminded me of something Newton once said that gave me a clue about what he thought of me as an engineer. We were sat in the engine house one day and apropos of nothing at all he said "Given a bit more time I reckon we could make a half decent engineer out of you". I always told him that was the nicest thing he ever said to me.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 21 May 2020, 03:52

I read MD's fortnightly piece on Covid in Private Eye yesterday. I'd recommend it to you all.
He reminds me of Dr Charles Hill,the Radio Doctor. (LINK)
Evfery morning Dr Hill gave a short talk on the best way to ensure good health. His lugubrious delivery masked the value of his advice on every aspect of health. Together with Gert and Daisy, (LINK) the nation got a dose of good advice every morning, in the latter case, on cooking and nutrition.
If I remember rightly Charles Hill later had a political career and became Postmaster General for a time. (LINK)
The piece about Gert and Daisy doesn't mention their regular morning slot where they gave cooking tips.

In our exhibition, Propaganda: Power and Persuasion, you can hear an excerpt from the BBC radio programme The Kitchen Front. Broadcast on 20 December 1941, it features the characters Gert and Daisy, giving a recipe for mutton cooked as turkey (“murkey”).
The Kitchen Front was broadcast daily, following the 8am news bulletin, and was one of the BBC’s most-popular shows during the Second World War, with regular audiences of 5- 7 million. The programme was conceived as a means by which the Ministry of Food could communicate with the British public, explaining about rationing schemes, encouraging the use of foods which were more generally-available, and discouraging food waste. Additionally, the programme intended to boost morale, using humour and characters who were recognisable or familiar to the listening public.
Gert and Daisy were the creations of performers Elsie Waters and her sister Doris Ethel Waters. The characters were already popular before the War, having appeared at two Royal Variety performances in the 1920s and 1930s and releasing recordings of their sketches and songs. For two weeks in April 1940, Gert and Daisy performed Feed the Brute, a 5 minute programme broadcast at the end of the 6pm evening news, to give recipes and advice on food. The use of humour, and popular characters, was a huge success.

Perhaps the government could have a look at these forgotten corners and start by giving MD the job of giving a non-political Covid update each day instead of the empty shell it is at present, aimed as it is at political survival.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 22 May 2020, 03:19

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Today's forgotten corner is a personal one. Best to start by looking at this LINK because I doubt if many will have heard of him.
Fausto Coppi (what a name!) was my hero in the days when I was cycling. He represented the pinnacle of achievement for anyone who rode a bike with gears and not the antediluvian fixed wheels of the National Cyclist's Union who looked with disdain on anyone who used a dérailleur gear. Coppi was the reason we used Italian gears, hubs and accessories. Our aim was to get our bikes as near to his as we could and boy did we enjoy them! (Particularly when free-wheeling downhill at speeds up to 70mph.) You may raise your eyebrows at that but our gang was once stopped in Whaley Bridge in the late 1940s by a police patrol who had clocked us at almost 70 on Long Hill coming down from Buxton. We used to overtake cars. I think secretly they admired us for doing it but had to put a stern face on and try to slow us down. Compare and contrast with a computer in the bedroom. No wonder I still have good legs! A forgotten Corner!
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 23 May 2020, 03:56

One of the things we frequently forget is the effect external unrelated factors can have on every day life. It was a bombing campaign by the Luftwaffe that brought the aero industry to Barlick and that saved us economically. I've always said we should have a statue to Hitler in the town! Now it is a virus that is going to be the next big influence.
Who could have foreseen that it would destroy the aviation and travel industry? But that is what has happened and the future looks bleak for Rolls and the associated support industries in the area. Even if they survive there are going to a lot of jobs lost and it's difficult to see what can replace them even in the long term.
We are now in the same boat as Mr Micawber, trusting in something turning up! One wonders if there will be anything and if so, what could it be?
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by PanBiker » 23 May 2020, 09:07

Stanley wrote:
22 May 2020, 03:19
He represented the pinnacle of achievement for anyone who rode a bike with gears and not the antediluvian fixed wheels of the National Cyclist's Union who looked with disdain on anyone who used a dérailleur gear.
Aided as well by his own admission of regular amphetamine use when racing. It wasn't illegal then but he could not have done it now.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 24 May 2020, 03:10

He was still fast Ian and the best!
I noted yesterday that bowlers in cricket matches are to be prohibited from spitting on the ball as an aid to polishing one side of it but sweat will be allowed. That reminded me of a small forgotten corner that was quite a controversy at the time but is now a forgotten corner.

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Dennis Compton (LINK) He was a pin up in those days and noted as a Brylcreem Boy, indeed he had an advertising contract with them. However, he was accused of using the haircream to modify the ball. I don't think it was ever banned but at the time was quite a news story!
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by PanBiker » 24 May 2020, 09:11

Stanley wrote:
24 May 2020, 03:10
He was still fast Ian
That's why they call it "Speed". Worked for German Storm Troopers, Axis and Allied Bomber Boys and fighter pilots and tankers during WWII. Pervitin for the Axis forces, we had our own equivalents with Benzedrine and others.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 25 May 2020, 03:16

Not really a factor Ian as they were all under the same rules.
The NCU said the same about free wheels and gearing. Remember when Pro-Plus was an over the counter remedy for tiredness?
We followed the Italians in other ways. Aluminium water bottles in a carrier on the frame, bonk bags with a couple of Mars Bars and a spare inner tube in. Happy days and boy did we do some miles..... Lots of it in very hilly terrain in Derbyshire as well, we never went for the easy rides! Winnatt's Pass was a favourite. Long Hill out of Whaley Bridge and the Cat and Fiddle over to Macclesfield.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 26 May 2020, 03:21

Today's item is not so much a forgotten corner as an unconsidered trifle,a very similar beast.
If, in the course of your peregrinations you come across a lump of metal (Or anything else that is interesting and has possibilities) pick it up, take it home and pop it in a treasure chest. If Ian takes advantage of my services that's where the stock to do the job has come from, lumps of metal tripped over in the long grass.
It's quite amazing what lurks out there if you keep your eyes open. Never walk past it!
Most of the components for my projects comes from this source, what other people see as 'scrap' I have hardly bought anything in since retiring apart from essential items like small tools or castings. One of my most useful finds was a broken cast iron water tank with very thick walls. Good CI is hard to find and I can't tell you how often I have sawn a piece of rough material out of it and converted it to a precision component. It's old and therefore very good metal. In those days they were melting good iron not the endlessly recycled scrap they use these days.
Mind you, avoid old firebars and bed frames! The worst metal in the world!
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Whyperion » 26 May 2020, 13:09

thats a pity I have some angle 6ft long probably off a slientnight postwar bed ( the main frame went owing to the house it came from putting half in the garage, which I did not get to until I had cleared the house).

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 27 May 2020, 03:36

Bin it.
I slept in this morning, no sweat! But It doesn't mean things have to be skimped. That struck me as I automatically went through my bleach routine just now as I brewed my essential and wonderful morning coffee.
A mild degree of OCD in important routines like this is no handicap, indeed I'd say it was an advantage. Jack would agree, he loves his timetable.
(Senior moment. I thought I was in Household tips!)
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 28 May 2020, 03:53

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A personal forgotten corner from way back prompted by tripping over this pic in the archive. Victoria Wood and Russell Harty at Radio Lancashire in the days when it was owned by Oyston (A name to conjure with but that's another subject, I once went to a reception at his house.....) Willy Russell was on the same programme with us (Educating Rita). Fascinating experience and interesting people. Harty was a very strange character. I was sitting next to him at a dinner at Gawthorpe Hall on another occasion when he fondled me under the table cloth. I told him he was on the wrong horse! Still I suppose it's a claim to fame...... It's an almost forgotten corner now.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 29 May 2020, 04:03

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Ian's pic of me being useful in the shed.

You may have noted that this morning my mind has been on the Shed. One of the things that concerns many of us is that the advent of modern production methods like CNC and particularly AI is eroding basic machining skills in industry. They are becoming a forgotten corner.

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I am nowhere near the standard of my hero Johnny Pickles but he was a perfect example of the accomplished machinist, nothing was beyond his skills. However, imperfect though my efforts are in comparison, the tradition of men in sheds lives on in our back streets and who knows, may one day be the kernel of a new move towards basic skills. There are thousands of us quietly working away and preserving old skills and ways of making and more importantly, repairing everyday items and long may it continue!
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Whyperion » 29 May 2020, 21:18

Re-found a few of an acquaintances photos on flickr. I presume this MMB wagon, near unloading at Express Dairy, Morden, Surrey, (now gone as an islamic sect mosque), operated around the farms in rural East Surrey. The blue livery i dont think was used for very long. Image
Tanker is 1976 chassis, photo about 1980

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 30 May 2020, 03:25

I noticed yesterday that whilst not looking distressed the trees on the Green in the centre of Barlick are showing signs of the drought we are in. Not surprising really. If you look at the later planted ones in the avenue that the path goes through you might notice the way the roots are at the surface. This is because the Green used to be the railway sidings for the station and there is only a thin layer of topsoil with stone underneath.

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This means that the roots can't get deep down and so the trees can struggle for water in a dry time. Luckily they seem to cope with this but as I noted yesterday can soon show signs of distress.

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1892, before the sidings became redundant. A forgotten corner today for many.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 31 May 2020, 03:42

I was interrogating the pic of the sidings and my attention was drawn to the structure behind the Midland Rail goods wagon on the right. I eventually decided it was the elevated water tank for the locomotive watering point on the other side of the road at the end of the station platform.

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In the very early days there was no mains water supply and the source of the water for the engines was Wellhouse Mill. It was pumped up to the station from there 24X7. My source for this is the CHSC minute books. When the shed company bought the moribund mill from the Craven Bank they were surprised to find one Cornish boiler in steam solely used to run a small steam pump that was sending water up to the station, a situation that had existed since the railway opened (Wellhouse was built and started in 1853). This was no doubt connected with the fact that Bracewell, who built the mill, was also a promoter of and investor in the original Barlick branch line to the Midland Railway at Sough. The CHSC directors immediately took steps to end the arrangement and force the then MR that by then ran the branch to go on the mains which existed when CHSC bought the mill in 1903. A small forgotten corner.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 01 Jun 2020, 03:37

Thinking about the fact that under Barlick the pipe from Wellhouse to the station will still be in place I remembered another forgotten pipe.

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Remember me pointing out this stain on the wall in the Pioneer car park? It's still visible but fainter now. At the time I said it was a treacle stain from the days when it was mined in Barlick and exported. Actually, it's from spillage of liquor from the condensers at the coal fired gasworks as it was loaded into tank wagons for exporting as chemical feedstock. The point is that it was pumped from the gasworks through a pipe into the station yard where it could be loaded into the tank wagons via a flexible pipe. There was evidently a lack of coordination between the bloke handling the pipe and his mate on the valve that controlled the flow! The liquor was complex stuff containing all the fractions and included the gas tar. That's what has stained the wall no doubt.
That pipe will still be in place between the site where the gasworks was and what was then the station yard. It will be in good condition internally as well as the tar will have preserved it.
I often look at the small anonymous cast iron valve covers in the streets and wonder if they are water or something a bit stronger.

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This one in Hill Street is an old Skipton Water Department valve but others are smaller and anonymous.
Forgotten corners!

Later.... I did a pic of this one in lower North Avenue.

Image
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Tripps » 01 Jun 2020, 09:42

Like a Jeremy Corbyn 'tribute act'.

:laugh5:
Born to be mild. . .

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 02 Jun 2020, 02:42

Except that I don't have an allotment and don't make jam..... :biggrin2:
Discoursing on forgotten pipes over the last two days has reminded me of two things. The first is another forgotten 6" cast iron pipe from the Corn Mill to Wellhouse installed by Bracewell to divert water from there to his new Wellhouse mill and another 6" CI pipe from the overflow of the Wellhouse dams direct to the Stock Beck in what is now Victory Park. I have irrefutable evidence for both of these.

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Here is one of two pipes in the bank of the Stock Beck. One of them (I'm not sure which) is the overflow from the dams and was put in by Bracewell to ensure that the water couldn't be used by his cousins to drive Old Coates Mill as it was at too low a level. The other is the most famous forgotten pipe of all, the Bowker Drain which I have chronicled elsewhere.
The second matter is the crop of myths you get frequently about secret tunnels. We seem to have a collective fascination for them. I have been told that there is definitely a tunnel from the cellar of Monks House on Manchester Road to either the site of the old monastery or even Gill Church a mile away. There are reports of a culvert from Butts Mill to Wellhouse and occasionally you get rumours of old mine workings and disused mine shafts. I once had an enquiry from a person selling a house about whether it was true that there was a shaft under their house. Not surprisingly this originated in the buyer who was trying to get the asking price lowered. I was able to reassure them of course, no disused shafts under houses in Barlick!
I once talked to Newton Pickles about this and he said he had asked his dad Johnny the same question. Johnny said to ignore the stories. He reckoned they all emanated from the fact that over the years many large stone drains and culverts were installed and occasionally an excavation for something broke into one of them and an explanation had to be found. Another 'secret tunnel'!
There is a common thread in all these stories and it is water. We forget today how important water and control of it was in the early history of the town. Drainage, supply and use for power all played a part. It paid to invest in culverts and many were built. Court battles were fought over riparian rights.
So whenever you hear about another secret tunnel, take it with a large pinch of salt and remember my forgotten corners.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 03 Jun 2020, 03:37

I wrote this 4 years ago;
"In my articles about the canal I mentioned wood as a household fuel. This triggered some thoughts that have been intriguing me for years. Those of you who are regular readers might remember me mentioning once that I found a reference that intrigued me so I bought the book that was the source. It was only when it arrived I found it was in Latin, not one of my languages. However, I did the best I could and found a rich seam of information. The book was the Bolton Priory Compotus 1286. (The accounts of the Priory) Here's what I found....
1296/97. Under Custus domorum. [Expenses connected with the house?] ‘Et sarratoribus in bosco de Bernolwyk. 2s/10d. [‘and for sawyers in Barnoldswick Wood’] 1297/98. ‘Et carpentariis laborantibus in Bosco de Bernolwik.” Payment made for carpenter’s work probably connected with wagon or carriage building in the ‘wood of Barnoldswick’. 3s/7d. Also payment to Johanni le Tournour; 12d, which seems to be for felling trees in the wood of Barnoldswick.
Doreen Crowther had sent me some evidence she had found. From the Court Rolls of the Honour of Clitheroe. Water mill at Colne repaired 1442/1443. Two loads of timber from Barnoldswick Wood carried there to make two ‘balkes’ at 8 pence per load. Two loads of timber for ‘ground werke’ at 8 pence per load. One load of timber for making a ‘sille’ under the ‘axeltree’; 8 pence. Paid 12 pence for carriage of another ‘sille’ and ‘ground sille’ from Pendle to Clitheroe. Same rolls record carriage of one axletree from Barnoldswick; 12 pence. Three loads of timber for the soles of the shears at the said mill [this is a fulling term and therefore must be referring to the Walk Mill.] at 8 pence per load. Carriage of three beams of ‘le shrendicg’ and other necessaries at 8 pence per load.
These references have intrigued me for years. They are firm evidence that Barlick was a source of large timbers, almost certainly oak. Barlick must have been a better source than Colne or anywhere nearer, otherwise, why come here? So when I saw the phrase Barnoldswick Wood in the Compotus my antennae started twitching. The 1297 entry is even more interesting because it too seems to be connected with expenses incurred by the Priory mill. However in this case it is specifically connected with labour connected with wagon-building. The 1312 entry of payments to Johanni le Tournour is a bit murky because of my lack of knowledge of Latin. I can’t find a proper translation of ‘meremio prosternendo’, ‘prosternendo’ is translated as to lay low, knock down, overthrow and I have guessed that this refers to felling trees. ‘Johanni le Tournour’ gets me twitching even more, could this be John the turner? The modern equivalent of John Turner."
This still intrigues me.

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Wood End on the 1853 OS map. There are estate maps as well. Why the name? It seems self evident, this was at the end of a wood extending back into Barlick. There are other clues, evidence of sawyers (Sagin Hill up to the Croft) and later sawmills like Ouzledale, mentions of wheelwrights and cart making are common. Hey Farm was where Crooks had wheelwrighting shop and the flywheel for the pole lathe was still there when I owned it. Harry Horsfield once told me that his uncle at Green End in Salterforth used to make carts when work on the farm was slack. There were two boatyards making 40ft wide beam canal boats at Salterforth.

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All these clues point to the exploitation of a local resource heavy enough to de-forest the area. Barlick Wood is no more! A forgotten corner.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Sue » 03 Jun 2020, 07:18

Thanks Stanley, another answer as to why John Widdup of Rochdale moved to Barnoldswick in 1790 ish. I must get my book going again. My brain was just not in writing mood whilst in France. I may not have sounded it but I was really quite depressed at times
If you keep searching you will find it

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 03 Jun 2020, 07:27

I had a funny turn this morning and went looking for a translation of the Bolton Priory Compotus. I didn't find one but Found another book by Ian Kershaw on the Priory that might contain some clues. Yes, you've guessed it, I spent £20. (It's like a disease....)
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Christian » 03 Jun 2020, 10:38

Well I bought a drone last week, had a fair play with it and decided that I'll tick some off the list and start sharing.

Standrise Earth Circle for ya..
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Christian » 03 Jun 2020, 10:41

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A short video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRf5hBhnLKo
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