BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

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BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by Thomo » 15 Jul 2013, 14:55

This fairly unique event for the town is now set to be on Sunday the 8th of September 2013. It will be the culmination of a great deal of effort by many people, some local, others not so. The granite panels are being produced by a firm of stonemasons in Burnley, the Yorkshire Regiment has again been contacted and it appears that we have a Band and Troops for the occasion. The local Council has worked hard on this project, and we now have a basic plan of events and timing for the day. This due to its very nature still requires some "fine tuning". We of the Barnoldswick War Memorial Group have been invited to join the working party that is striving to make this event, Memorable, this invitation has been proudly accepted. It is now less than two months to the event itself, and much is still to be done, yet with men and women such as these, all is possible. As information becomes confirmed about this event, it will be posted here, and later with the local press and media. At this point I would wish to thank they who have shown an interest, or participated in trying to bring together a hugely satisfactory conclusion to what we are about:- Barnoldswick Town Council, Pendle Borough Council, Mr Chris Foster and his team from "Cravens Part in the Great War" CPGW, Mr. Scott Flaving from the "Dukes" museum at Halifax, Mr. Colin Brittain of Whitby, The Regimental Secretary of the Yorkshire Regiment and such websites as:- Ancestry UK, Lancashire and Yorkshire BMD, CWGC, Soldiers Died, not forgetting OGFB, and they who I have "Chatted" with, in the town, over the garden gate or online. Again many thanks!
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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by Thomo » 20 Jul 2013, 09:25

Progress is steady, yet rewarding in the work being done for this event. The stonemasons have been in touch this week to see if there were any updates and to check on the details, the granite plaques are coming from a quarry at Aberdeen and are to be "Honed" Bohus Granite, a very close match to the existing Memorial. The deputy Secretary of the Yorkshire Regiment is coming to Barlick next week to discuss the initial details of the event, he will also receive the complete list of the names of the men who died in WW1 from the Regiments that make up the present day Yorkshire Regiment, ie, The Dukes, The Prince of Wales own Yorkshire Regiments, The East Yorkshire Regiment, the West Yorkshire Regiments and what was the Alexandra, Princess of Wales Own, (The Green Howards). The total number of names being 123, I know for certain that there were more in WW2. Formulating this list would have been a long task, but on working on the book, each time I have completed 10 pages, I add them to the hard copy. This is now at the 12th of November 1918, therefore I was able to use the book hard copy for reference, result, task done in 3 hours, a copy has also been sent to the Regimental Museum care of Scott Flaving, it is likely that he also will be here for the event.
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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by PanBiker » 20 Jul 2013, 11:51

Another step along the way Thomo and as discussed on the phone the other day all very positive and shaping up nicely. It will be nice to hear what the deputy Secretary of the regiment thinks of Barlick and the outline plans for the day. Good that monumental masons have checked for any changes before setting to with the inscriptions.
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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by Thomo » 22 Jul 2013, 10:30

Time now for a few statistics. On the War Memorial there are currently 285 names from WW1 and 61 from WW2 and other events, after the additions this will become: 319 from WW1 and 73 from WW2. In order to assess how many have died from what is now the Yorkshire Regiment in both Wars, I have done a basic scan of WW2 with reasonable success, just 24 names require a deeper search, the findings of this will be useful when I arrive at WW2 in the book, the book work for WW1 is almost at an end. Of the 318 men and 1 woman who died in, or as a result of WW1, over a third were from what is now the Yorkshire Regiment, 123 to be more precise. In WW2 this drops to about 10. Many more of the WW2 deaths were from the RAF Volunteer Reserve and The Royal Navy. There were men from Barlick caught up at Dunkirk, mostly Royal Engineers, in the Eastern Theatre of War there were about another 10, with a similar number in the Merchant Navy. In the Royal Navy, there were men from Barlick on HM Ships, Hood, Prince of Wales and Repulse, Charybdis and Gloucester, and the Submarines Turbulent and Usurper, D Day and what followed soon after also took its toll on the Barlick man, as did El Alamein. In 1974 after Exercise Midlink in the Indian Ocean I was on the Flagship of Flag Officer 1st Flotilla, Sir Terence Lewin, HMS Blake, We visited the site where the two Battleships, Prince of Wales and the Repulse were sunk and laid wreaths there, totally unaware that there were two fellow Barlickers down there, and a long way down indeed! There are 2 men from Barlick whose names will be on the Memorial from WW2, one was a member of the National Fire Service, men from "low Risk" areas were moved to the cities to bulk up the numbers fighting fires as a result of the bombing, this man died in the London Blitz. The other man was from the local "Home Guard" and was caught up in the bombing of Coventry. The research for WW2 will not be easy as information for those under the age of 29 will not be in the public domain for quite a while yet.
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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by PanBiker » 22 Jul 2013, 15:16

Your last sentence sums up the reason why I had to resort to the local papers for finding the missing names from WWII. The MOD has not yet made the information we require available in an easily searchable form unless you already know the name. Having said this a lot is still under a duty of care. If you check back in the research thread you should find all the avenues that I have explored so far. It will be worth a re-read to save covering the same ground when you look for further information.

The majority of my research posts were on the old site though and are no longer accessible which is a great shame. I still have the references for the micro fiches in the library for each of the reports in the papers with date. Not a lot of information there though, I did included most of it though when I posted it.
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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by Thomo » 22 Jul 2013, 15:33

Its OK Ian, I copied it all at the time and have it on file. Much of the stuff about families for the book concerning WW1 came from Ancestry. only a small amount of this will be available for WW2, thankfully my Sister and her Husband have good memories, both were born in the 1920s.
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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by Thomo » 23 Jul 2013, 13:59

In the wake of Major (Retd) Herons visit to the town yesterday, we now have a band, and troops from the 4th Battalion T/A Reg (Halifax) for the event. Other local groups are being contacted with a view to making this a special occasion, no rain dances please!! There is still much to be done, but we will get there. If there are any "Veterans" out there amongst you, then please join in, you will be most welcome.
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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by Thomo » 25 Jul 2013, 13:51

It is just as well that we did not pursue a presence by the 3rd Battalion of the Yorkshire Regiment, originally the Dukes. They have just ceased to exist, and are now a part of the 1st Battalion. It is also just as well that we were not reliant on the towns Band for this occasion, they are otherwise engaged on the 8th. Apart from that, work is progressing steadily on the event, with several contacts being made to "beef" up the occasion, details of this will be made public when confirmed.
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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by Thomo » 26 Jul 2013, 19:58

And now, with much hard work already done, some kind person has brought all of this to the attention of the Duke of Lancasters Regiment, who are now "Kicking Off" big time, enough to call a special meeting meeting shortly in darkest Lancashire. We need to be clear about this, in World Wars 1 & 2, Barnoldswick was in Yorkshire, the names that are, or will be on the memorial are those of men who lived here, the bulk of them born here. The number of men who died in WW1 from Regiments that now make up the current Yorkshire Regiment was 123, whereas the numbers of men from the Regiments that are now a part of the current Duke of Lancasters was 37. There is little doubt that someone is making mischief, and sooner or later we "Will" find out who, and all Hell will fall around their ears. If the other Dukes wish to attend, they will be welcome, but will not be up front!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by Thomo » 26 Jul 2013, 20:28

It did not take long to find out where that came from, another local town, and the tragic loss of a young Soldier. Whilst we are sorry for the loss of this young mans life, we cannot structure events here around the wishes of they who do not, and this concerns men who died when Barlick was still in Yorkshire, of the names to be added from WW1, 11 were in the Duke of Wellingtons West Riding Regiment.
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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by Tardis » 27 Jul 2013, 13:37

Do we have a full list of who has been invited to attend yet?

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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by Thomo » 28 Jul 2013, 09:08

No Tardis, we do not. A number of invitations have been sent out to various bodies, all of whom would add substance and character to the event, these groups come from both sides of the "Border" (ours and theirs) Inviting the Yorkshire Regiment was not an attempt to put the Duke of Lancaster's noses out of joint, it was done for historical reasons. The Duke of Lancaster's were contacted at the same time as the Yorkshires, I understand that the reply was not promising, they would still be welcomed, but must accept that they will not be playing the lead role. Much hard work has gone into this project and there have been many obstacles, there is no time now for petty squabbling about who comes or who does not. There is one member of BWMG who has worked tirelessly on our behalf and I find it sickening that he is to face a grilling shortly over this episode, fortunately, he has the inner strength and moral courage to stand his corner, This is not the time for "cross party" rivalries or any other kind of interference, personal or otherwise, it is not about who does what now, it is about service personnel who gave their lives in two World Wars on our behalf and deserve recognition for their sacrifice. Groups from both sides of the border have been invited to attend, in many cases there has not yet been a response. Also under way is an attempt to add something a bit extra special to the occasion, the initial response was immediate and progress is being made, we should know the result shortly. A full list will available just as soon as all possibilities have been explored. and invitations have been extended.
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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by Tardis » 29 Jul 2013, 10:24

Just asking

Best of luck with getting all the dignatories present. The recent Earby one was very well done

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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by Thomo » 29 Jul 2013, 13:44

Thank you all. There is nothing I would like better than to post more details about what is taking place, but there is a great deal of "try and then wait" happening at present, indeed a letter has gone off this morning to try and add a little extra to the occasion. There is to be a meeting tomorrow evening of interested parties, which I will be attending, hopefully we can clarify then just what, or what is not going to take place, what we are trying to do may be revealed at that time, this depends on the mood of the meeting! Time is drawing short and there is still much to do, and above all, we must get it right, or to use a Naval term "we could have a right old pot mess". In short, if the responses to invitations came back as quickly as the invitations went out, we would not have so much of a problem.
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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by Thomo » 31 Jul 2013, 12:22

At last there is some light at the end of this particular tunnel, and not just a glimmer either. This morning the Chairman of the Council and fellow BWMG member Ken Hartley and I had a meeting with two representatives from the 4th Battalion, the Yorkshire Regiment. They quickly realised that this event deserved more than just a token presence and have gone away determined to do the best they can for us, and these two knew what they were talking about, both Ken and I came away from it feeling a great deal happier, and much relieved. As a result I am now going to give out a little of what is happening to add a little extra to the day. First, we are working with a contact at Rolls Royce Heritage Trust to see if we can get their Spitfire MK XIX up here for the event, all of the required information has been passed to the pilot to see if it is possible or not. Second, a letter has gone to the Colonel in Chief of the Yorkshire Regiment, His Royal Highness, the Duke of York, asking if he would write a short message to be read out at the Ceremony. Other groups that have been invited to attend are from the surrounding areas, ie, Skipton, Colne, Earby, Keighley and Burnley. The invited include The Royal British Legion, Sea and Army Cadets, Veterans and other interested parties. This work is still ongoing, and there is still a lot of sit and wait involved, also several "back up" plans are being pursued in order to achieve a good balance on the day. One of the Men who came this morning deals with the Regiments press coverage and is keen to get the maximum cover of the re-dedication. How this is all shaping up will be posted here when confirmed.
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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by Thomo » 01 Aug 2013, 12:21

This just in from Rolls Royce Heritage Trust:-

Dear Peter,

We should be able to circle the town as last time – we definitely won’t be able to come over the memorial. We will be in transit back to East Midlands from RAF Leuchars and as such I can’t give a definite time other than mid-morning-ish and we will, of course, be dependent on weather conditions on the day.



I hope this is a sufficiently firm “definite maybe” for you.

This one:-

Image



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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by Tardis » 02 Aug 2013, 14:56

Interesting colour. I could be a bit geeky and ask if it was an Air marshall's, a yank squadron or a trainer? :grin:

I shall hopefully be able to look up and see and hear the steady thrumming of the engine

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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by Thomo » 02 Aug 2013, 15:35

It is a MK XIX fitted with a RR Griffon Engine. It was a reconnaissance aircraft, and unarmed, fitted with cameras instead of guns. It has been over here before, but the fact that it is civil registered, means that it cannot make low level passes over built up areas. If the pilot circles the town and can see the centre of that circle, all should be able to see the aeroplane. Any further information about the aircraft is available if requested. The group based in Burnley, Saluteyou, who deal with the problems of ex service personnel have been invited to attend, and are very enthusiastic about this event . Slowly but surely this is all coming together, there is only just over a month left, and still much to be done, the worst part is the waiting for responses from the invited, a firm sorry we cannot attend would do, then we can implement back up plans. Apart from the one "hiccup" that we had that may have been "Sour Grapes" this has been an interesting exercise, and it now appears that the attempt to derail what we are about may be "dead in the water", I hope so, as this is not about individuals now, it is about Barlicks Past. The only thing that we have no control over, is of course the weather on the day, this could prevent the appearance of the Spitfire, and one of the back up plans. But this is I believe is still England, anything may, or may not happen.
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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by Stanley » 03 Aug 2013, 04:23

It over-flew a while since for a RR anniversary and the Griffon sounds lovely..... A real growl!
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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by PanBiker » 04 Aug 2013, 16:19

Good news Peter, will catch up properly next week.
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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by Thomo » 05 Aug 2013, 14:19

Whilst trying to contact interested parties for this event, I have now realised that the structure of this countries heritage is being rapidly eroded. Even smaller towns like ours had their own associations or groups and clubs such as the Royal British Legion, Scouts and Guides, Boys and Girls Brigades, St. John Ambulance, Cadets and so on, in the larger towns they were a strong and well established item, this is sadly no longer the case. We here in Barlick have recently lost the Girls Brigade and now probably the Salvation Army. For St. John Ambulance you now have to contact Nelson Lancs, The British Legion Club there is now a Mosque, but enough of this before I upset anyone. I have had another go at contacting the Royal Navy Association at Skipton and re-sent the original mail having spoken with someone there, the contents of this mail will now also be passed to the RAF Association. Time is now drawing short at 4 weeks and 6 days to this event. They who have been invited must now respond fairly fast or the "backup" plans will be implemented, this will mean that the net is cast further afield. I am still waiting for a letter from "Buck House" but this is not a problem as I anticipated a long wait. There is still a chance that I may be able to get some more planes here in the afternoon from the RAF, and they can overfly the town, but that is now a job for tomorrow. I have also left a message for Lt, Pask at Burnley Sea Cadets, it is back to waiting now, and dammit, the rum bottles nearly empty!!!
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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by Thomo » 06 Aug 2013, 10:52

Progress is being made now, there is the monthly meeting of the RNA at Skipton tonight where the invitation will be on their agenda. Contact with the Skipton "Dukes" veterans has also been established, and tonight we have a meeting here in Barlick with as many local interested parties as can be mustered, getting everyone together at the same time and place as not been easy, but thankfully, the legal Dept, at Pendle seem to have gone quiet, this I believe is down to the determined and forthright efforts of the local Councillors who wish this to be a success, well done you! I have just had a call from the stonemasons, and everything is on track there, that is a big relief.
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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by Thomo » 07 Aug 2013, 12:02

Another meeting this morning with BET involvement, the results of which I understand will make the paper this week. There is no feedback as yet from the Skipton area, or Buck House, and so the wait goes on, one month and one day to go, now the rum bottle is empty, new one due on Friday. A PM this morning confirmed what I posted about the Salvation Army, this I find very sad as they are people who have done much, yet asked so little, unlike the JW's who have been at my door twice in 3 days, which part of "NO" do they not understand!
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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by Thomo » 07 Aug 2013, 19:44

Tomorrow it will be only one Month away from this event, the past couple of weeks have been very busy, and much has been achieved, but there has been a small shadow that has caused some concern, and could have put a damper on the planned occasion, this shadow has gone. This evening, at a Council Meeting the main item was a motion to grant the Honorary Freedom of the Town of Barnoldswick to the Yorkshire Regiment, and it is with great pleasure and immense relief that I can tell you now, that the motion was carried unanimously. To the Chairman and members of the Town Council I offer my sincere thanks for this, you have done us proud. And so now its back to the waiting game again, but with that out of the way, it will be easier.
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Re: BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

Post by Thomo » 09 Aug 2013, 18:44

Despite all of the attempts of many people to get this event right, another cloud has appeared. The basis of this project has involved working with all political parties and interested people from many parts of UK, beliefs and cultures. I was born here in Barlick in 1940 as a Yorkshireman, half of my family were from Yorkshire and the other half from Lancashire, that was never a problem, we were all happy. In 1974, this town became a part of Lancashire for administrative purposes, I was not here, I was serving my country in the Navy, and living in Eastney. I was not Asked! It was a shock I suppose when I came home, but it was one of those things you have to live with, and that is just what I have done. But now after much hard work I am extremely upset and angry that all of the work done by BWMG, and CPGW, The Town Council and the many individuals concerned is under attack from Lancashire. Pendle Council, Lancashire Constabulary, The Duke of Lancaster's Regiment, the BBC and others, some political. A man who has worked very hard for this event has again been called into question, accused of trying to re-start the war of the roses!! This is not about where we are or were, this is about good men and women who lived here, and quite a few were from Lancashire, who lost their lives for us and this Country. Believe me when I say, that this is enough, and if all the of the dissenters who are trying to de-rail this want some bad press, then that is just what they will receive.
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