STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS

[Stanley]

Call me old fashioned but when I look at the present generation of machines controlled by computers, especially planes with 'fly by wire' I get a wave of nostalgia for wire cables and skilled operators.... And then a rogue pilot deliberately flies a plane into a hillside.....
The value of an engine as a timekeeper depended on the accuracy of the clock in the engine house. There are recorded problems of engineers running to Railway Time and weavers running to Post Office Time when there was a difference between the two. The weavers set their clocks by the post office clock, the engineer relied on the Manchester Man's watch when he came home from the exchange.... They decided to run to Post Office Time.

[PanBiker]

Call me old fashioned but when I look at the present generation of machines controlled by computers, especially planes with 'fly by wire' I get a wave of nostalgia for wire cables and skilled operators.... And then a rogue pilot deliberately flies a plane into a hillside.....

A bit off topic but did you hear the report of I think a cargo jet that crashed the other day. Apparently the crash has been traced to incorrect engine management software loaded at its last overhaul. When the pilots tried to apply maximum thrust for climb the software said no and the plane simply fell out of the sky, nothing that the pilots could do about it, very scary.

[Tizer]

That might be the one I was referring to which triggered Stanley's comment. The software controls the turbine blades and there's a separate computer and its software for each engine - but there's no safety factor in that when someone installs the same duff software in all the engines during maintenance. The crew tried to override it but there's another `safety' feature which, ironically, wouldn't let them take over. We're making everything too complicated.

[Stanley]

Tiz could be right, engineering is always a search for improvement and this is fine as long as they work well in practice. This particular failure of the software has hit the headlines and will doubtless be addressed but there was a similar development in steam engines that escaped notice...
The 'Uniflow' engine was hailed as a great technical advance in steam engine design. It did away with half the valve gear as the exhaust was out of a ring of ports in the centre of the stroke and on paper it was a great improvement in thermal efficiency. However, if you talk to someone like Newton who had experience of them you get a different story. The exhaust arrangement meant less expansion of steam and because there was no exhaust at the end of the stroke they had very high compression which at low speeds (when stopping) meant very lumpy running, shocks sent down the lineshaft and broken bevel gears in the shed. Further, because higher temperatures were maintained in the ends of the cylinder the bore had to be barrel shaped which made them harder to manufacture and rebore. They were fine when running on continuous duty on a simple application like driving a generator and these were the ones that got the publicity. Newton hated them (he had several on his books) and he reckoned that it was switching over to Uniflows that bankrupted many engine makers including Newton, Bean and Mitchell.

[Stanley]

[Stanley]

I've been thinking about the effectiveness of 'improvements' in steam engine design. By 1920 the most popular configuration for the medium powered engines that survived the longest had settled on the cross compound engine running on saturated steam and using expansive working effected by Corliss valves. They were a good balance between efficiency, simplicity of design and longevity. Properly sizes and maintained they were remarkably trouble free. Many of the problems we see in latter years were either because of bad supervision or overloading.
Innovations like the Uniflow design, super-heating of steam and drop valves were theoretically successful but in practice raised maintenance and running costs. For instance, super-heating has obvious advantages but if improved oils were not used accelerated wear was the result.
Compared with the new technology of electric motors engines were much cheaper in terms of capital cost (all of them were written off the books) and energy costs. So why did they suddenly become bad news?

[Stanley]

One very powerful influence was that after WW2 a decision was taken to enlarge and modernise the National Grid. In order to enlarge the customer base and therefore consumption a campaign was mounted by the National Industrial Fuel Efficiency Council. They sent representatives round industry to promote the benefits of electric drives. These were universally known as the 'Nifemen'. Their sales ploy was to highlight the inefficiency and disadvantages of the steam engine and promote the flexibility and cheapness of electric power. Remember that many of the steam engines had received minimal maintenance during the war years and the owners faced large repair and maintenance bills to bring them back up to scratch.
At Bancroft Shed, when the Nifeman called the management sent for Newton Pickles to advise them. Newton listened to the rosy picture painted by the salesmen and asked if they would guarantee the savings and if they proved false, pay for the restitution of the engine. They wouldn't do this of course and the management declined the change over. Bancroft ran efficiently on its engine until other problems in the textile industry led to closure 30 years later.
Other mills swallowed the bait and electrified. How well did they do? I have some examples....

[Bodger]

Stanley, a nice little engine driving this shop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WXHNBMLZZM

[Stanley]

Interesting bloke and he's gone to a lot of trouble. He must spend more time cleaning up than I do! But, in reality, so much more efficient to just push a button..... My only criticism is that everything looks a bit too clean and his boiler would benefit from some lagging. It must get hot in there in summer!

[Stanley]

Back to the Nifemen.... One of the engines Newton had on his books for years was Broughton Road Shed in Skipton. They had a good war weaving very high standard parachute and balloon cloth on government contracts so they came out post war with a healthy balance sheet, a good business and a reliable engine. The father decided this was a good time to retire and let his sons get on with managing the business. They swallowed the Nifemen's sales pitch hook line and sinker and decided to electrify. If you want the whole story go to the LTP and look at Newton's transcripts. The bottom line is that a few months after electrification, scrapping the engine and losing their old engineer they were in trouble and sent for Newton for advice. During the meeting they gave figures for the fuel consumption on the boiler (Which they still needed for heating and process steam) but the old man chipped in and said ask them about the stock coal they burned!
The upshot was that they were burning more coal after electrification than they were with the engine. When Newton inspected the plant he found that their boilerman was useless, he was injecting cold feed water with the fire pump and mismanaging the boiler so badly he was running on full fires all the time. In the heating season he couldn't cope with the load and this was an additional cost because the plant was not reliable.
The 'cure' for the immediate problems was to reinstate the original feed pump and economisers, install a proper condensate return system in the mill and get the feed water back up to temperature. The boilerman was sacked and a new qualified man set on. Even with these improvements the overall cost of coal and electricity was far higher than it had been with the engine and was a contributing factor to the business finally winding up and closing.
This was not an isolated example. See the LTP for Newton's account of the electrification of Pendle Street mill in Nelson, one of the most economical plants in the town. Almost exactly the same story, a catalogue of errors that eventually closed the mill.
Some mills were successfully electrified and Brown and Pickles did many conversions putting large electric motors on the ends of the cross shafts in the shed. This seemed to suit the old Lancashire Looms best as it retained the advantages of belt drive to the looms with the minimum of disruption because the shafts could be converted one by one without halting production.
On a different subject.... today I go to have a look at an old friend, a project I have been associated with for thirty years, the old Jubilee engine in its new house at Masson Mill in Derbyshire. I am told I might see it running..... Can't wait!



12 years ago..... It's looking a lot better now!

[Bodger]

Stanley, have a look at pic. #2 on the link , water wheel shaft, other pics worth a peep also
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/an ... -a-305400/

[Stanley]

Wonderful! They were supermen! Some big lumps there... God knows what that is on the planer, biggest work piece I have ever seen.....

See THIS for a Wikipedia article on one of most famous strikes in American Labour history. Andrew Carnegie may have given millions to charity but he didn't show much charity to the men in the pictures......
Jubilee is looking good... See Shed Matters.

[Stanley]

If any of you watched Bargain Hunt yesterday you'll have seen Robert and Tim Wonacott at Masson and the engine running. Go to iPlayer and watch it.... Robert is a very private man and the only reason he allows exposure like this is for the advertising value for Masson Mill. Over the years his activities in Industrial Archaeology have not always pleased the higher echelons but he has probably achieved more than any other single individual in the field. Masson Mill would not be there if it wasn't for him and the Jubilee engine would have been scrapped like so many others. That engine running in the engine house at Masson is the culmination of thirty years hard work and expense. A good man!

[Stanley]

Not all engines had a saviour....



Dee Mill was a fine engine under the care of Courtaulds and the Northern Mill Engine Society. They fell out, the mill was closed and as the engine and house were scheduled as an Ancient Monument and thus became a bar to developing the site. Successive owners neglected it until in 1992 it was dragged down to this.



Littlewood's Home shopping owned the site and wanted to develop it. They made enquiries and were given my name and so came to me and asked me if I could get them permission to demolish. I argued the case and got the consent and that's how I became notorious in some quarters as the man who destroyed the engine. It never bothered me, it was the right thing to do, it was well past saving in any sort of meaningful form.

[Stanley]

You may wonder why the engine, 'fully protected' by scheduling as an Ancient Monument (same protection as Stonehenge....) could be allowed to get to this state. The owners wanted shut of it so simply left it open to vandalism. The basis of my application for consent to demolish was that scheduling did nothing to protect an artefact if there was not individual will and care to back it up. It took the various committees in London months to agree with me because in effect they were admitting they were powerless but in the end the logic prevailed and we got the permission. The point I am making is that Dee didn't have a Robert Aram behind it. The people who said they cared did nothing and we lost a fine engine. As part of my case I had to prove that nobody was interested in it. Littlewoods understood what I was doing and were very patient, it paid off in the end.

[Stanley]

Just one pic illustrating the scale of the problem moving the engine. The LP cylinder coming out of the house at Padiham. Big lumps, imaginative solutions. Thanks to Gissings, all accomplished with no damage at all.

[Stanley]

Once at Masson the engine parts had to be moved over a road that had rooms underneath it and so a track of heavy girders had to be laid down to support and distribute the weight. Slow careful work.....

[Stanley]

Before anything went in this massive foundation had to be manufactured and installed. Visitors will never see it. A quality job!

[Stanley]

At the time I thought the girder foundation was perhaps over-engineered but now it is finished I have to admit it's a great comfort to know that the engine is on a superb, stable foundation. Nothing better was ever done in the hay day of steam!

[Stanley]

Looking at the Masson bed and thinking about it reminded me of something. On a traditional installation where the bed was subject to changes in temperature depending on how hard the engine was working, only the foundation bolts at each end of the bed were dead tight, the rest were left relatively slack to allow the bed to breathe on expansion and contraction to prevent cracking of the casting.

[Stanley]

Some of you may have remember me talking about how castings alter shape as the stress comes out of them. That was why, if possible, they were left to rust outside for months in the foundry yard to allow the stresses to relieve themselves. It's striking that particularly when making replacement cylinders after a breakdown Newton Pickles had to machine castings that were too hot to touch when delivered, they were still red hoy inside and had to be left to cool, if they were lucky, over a weekend. Despite this they machined them very accurately and didn't seem to have any problems with distortion. Perhaps this was because they were so big. So if any modern archaeologist is measuring an old cylinder up and assessing the accuracy of manufacture they must factor in the fact that many were made before they were stable. The miracle is that Newton and his ilk got away with it.....

[Stanley]

Replacement cylinder for Plumb Street Mill. It was red hot when delivered.

[Stanley]

I remember Newton saying that when the Plumb Street cylinder was delivered it was snowing and the flakes sizzled when they hit the casting. He knew immediately they were in trouble!

[Stanley]

Just a reminder that Newton's transcripts in the LTP are well worth reading. Lots of valuable information in there about engines and maintenance. B&P did some very big jobs..... Look on the Index Page for the LTP and get in there and dig! You can download the lot if you want and make it searchable.

[Stanley]

The self contained overtype engine never spread outside the agricultural industry in Britain but on the continent they were widely used in industry, some o0pf them were big engines like this one here. The attraction was the small space taken up by the plant and the fact it could be moved relatively easily.