DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

[Stanley]

We have taken lots of learnings from this,
A quotation from and email from Talktalk this morning. I could point them at another area where they could do some learning.....

[Tizer]

Chris Catling, editor of Current Archaeology magazine, has commented in one of the recent issues on the debate about the use of the `historic present' - trying to spice up history by writing it as if it's happening now rather than in the past. But he added another bugbear, the use of the conditional word `would' in so much history writing and by tour leaders etc. Saying, for example, "The king would have eaten from this table" instead of simply "The king ate from this table". Each time he hears `would' he wants to ask "if what?" e.g. "The king would have eaten from this table if it were Sunday". He suggests people might be using `would' because they feel they should insert a note of uncertainty.

[Stanley]

Or because they have no confidence in their research...... Like politicians, it is a brave historian who flies a kite and comes up with 'probable certainties'. I love doing that.

[rossylass]

It's a long time since I visited this website. Had almost forgotten how brilliant it is.

I am still researching the Pickles' and other members of my theatrical family and trying to make a book out of it. I thought that you may be interested in a letter which I found in the correspondence column of the Burnley Advertiser. It's long but, (I think), fascinating. I can almost hear the author saying the words which are in a form of dialect. The letter was written in response to a report about a deputation from the Methodist Church arriving at Burnley Courthouse to oppose the granting of a theatrical license to Henry Pickles. They presented a petition signed by upwards of 600 people.

Burnley Advertiser Sat 27/11/1858

OUR THEAYTRES

“Sam Wild and Pickuls they opposes,
And blasphemes Shakespere through their noses”
Hudibrass

To the Editor of the Burnley Advertiser.
Sir.- The person as writes this here letter, though he’s only a scene-shifter and loblolly at a penny theaytre, has got it into his hed he knows a thing or two. And see in as how some of your gentry has tried to prevent my master from getting a license from the magerstrates for to haft stage plays, I should like to say a word or two on that subjec. I understand as these very pius gents presented a memorium to the magistrates objectin agen theaytres because they do harm to sunday scholars and sech young beans as them, as they takes a greet hinterest in. Now if they does harm to them hinterestin creatures, I should like to ax them gents how it is as they doesn’t do harm to the childer of our grashus sovereign and the nobility of this here relm? It always seems very queer to me, as the very same things as is spouted afore the best edicatedest classes of society and as every newspaper and periodicale is always a makin so much on every week and every day, as soon as it gets into the hands of us low chaps should be looked on as more hobgecshunabler nor prigging nor sweerin. I don’t hinted for to say as our company can do Shakspere in the same style as Keen or them fellows as hacts afore the nobility and gentry. Though for that matter Ive heerd as some of your pius gents preeches agen Shakspere too. Such chaps as them would be more usefully himployed if they was yoked to a donkey cart and made to fetch coals for poor folk, carridge free. They seems to think as because they are vertewous there should be no more cakes nor hale, nor penny theaytres neether. It seems to me, sir, as if thehattricle performances is considered by many of the most popelarest writers as helivatin, the persons as goes afore the magistrates for to prevent poor folk from amusing themselves in a armless way, because they happens to be of a different opinion from others as is more further learned nor them, must heav fairish cheeks of their own; and as they’ll never be hindered from gettin on and makin money by anything like bashfulness. I have heerd as some of these gents lives in a fine manshin, and as a carridge of their own, and a nice gardin, and, I der say, a many things as us poor devils knows nothin on. Now I should like to ax them, afore they takes their benevolent phis afore the megerstrates agen, just for to set themselves down in their own smug parler, afore a smug fire, and just afore they rings of their servant to bring em a jolly good brekfast, which they doesn’t need to be afeard as the factory bell’ll ring afore they’ve time to finish it all if they likes, with their feet hon the arty rug and their thumbs twiddlin just under the bottomest button of their caprishus weskits, just for to try to himagin, if so be as they can himagin anythin beyond a good dinner or somethin of that soart, just for to think of the difference between their ow cirkumstanses and other’s as frekent penny theaytres. When they’ve done their business which may be they’ll have ridden to it in their carridge if the wether wasn’t favourable for walkin, they retires to a suburbian residence may be and can hamuse themselves as they likes - I don’t say as their chic would be mine but they can do as they likes and that’s enuff. If their tastes is littery they can feed it; if it’s musikle may be their daughter can feed it; if it’s religious they can feed it and their bellies at the same time; and so on, hetceterer. But lets take the other kase. A poor lad gets up at five or six in a mornin and works ‘ard all the blessed dayleet as God sends to us all, but as some gets a vast deal more on nor others - which its same with other things I could menshun. Well, he works all day with a buz in his ears, with cotton maybe in his lungs, and at tod times wi’ tears in his eyes; and at neet he goes home tired. What is he to do? May be, his home isn’t quite as comfortable as some of them gents is. Maybe it asn't as many sochable charms for him. Maybe it isn’t as convenient for study. Maybe all the music he can get proceeds from the scourin’ stone or a squalid babby. Maybe everythink is upset and he couldn’t sit down to have a snooze by the fire, though he’s fitter for that nor anythink else. Well, there vein no quietness, nor carpets, nor musik, at leest as is agreeable to hearken to, at home, he turns out into the street. Where is he to go? he Mekanik’s Hinstitushun? Maybe, he’s not up to readin much or if so be as he is in his mind may be too jaded to atend to a book for any length of time; and maybe he doesn’t hunderstand chess or drafts; which they say as many goes there for to himprove their minds with them hinstructive games; which nothink but right if it’s only the proper place for it. Is he to go to the beer-shop? It’s a shame to say it - I don’t say whose shame - but it’s a shame, and a hinfernal shame, as that’s often the only place where he can go with any comfort to hisself. If not there has he to go to “Bradshaws”? Maybe, he doesn’t hunderstand political hiconomy, or any other subjec as is hushally talked about there over coffee and bacco. Is he to go to chapel or prayer meetin? May be his tastes hasn’t been suffishuntly hedicated to happreshiate them things as he ought to. Why then let him stand at the street corners and be —-—.

Yes sir, that’s the answer in so many words, zeptin only one as I don’t exactly know how to spell, as them gents gives by their proceedins to then questions as I’ve axed. Now my answer, and wiser folks nor me or them either, would be, let him go to the Theyatre and be hamused. Let him himagin hisself to be Prince Tinselcap in disguise and be in love for an hour with the lovely Lindamira. What if hus as behind the scenes knows as it’s all paint and flummery! It’s the same behind more scenes than ours. Or, even, let him shake his thin sides with laughing at a low farce; surely merriment isn’t such a drug with him as he’ll object to it because the cause on it happens to be so very vulgar as respectable folks would sooner squeeze all the thin blood out of their thin lips nor’d they be indoced to laugh at such stuff. Not as this is all as he can get out of a penny Theaytre even. It is possible as he might get a glimmer of somethin better still; somethin as they couldn’t mend even at a sunday school; at least, not wheer them young hinnicents was hitructed to sign their preshus memorium. Though I have heerd as they wouldn’t all sign it. Honour to them as didn’t! And if any on em ever wants to see a performance let em come to me any neet, and I’ll get em into a place free gratis, for nothin. And if so be, as they’re very little ones, though I’m generally hengaged, I’ve a brother as comes heer o’most every night, as his very fond of children and actin, and they shall sit ov his nee, and he says as he’ll take em out whenever there’s anythin as loikly to be hoffensive to their infant morels. Or if this is not considered suffishent, their teachers can come with ‘em for once, and we’ll get hup the hinterestin drummer of Joseph and his brotherin, and the farce shall be John Barleycorn, the songs temperance melodies, and all the dance Spurgeon hornpipes. Tough I couldn’t promise as we could give this performance more than once, as our ushal hodiences has generally such low tastes, they’d ‘ardly think it worth while com in to heer twise.

Hopin as my proporsishun may be exceeded to, I remain yours,
Very respectably
TALLOW JACK
Pe Hess. - I don’t know much about puncturating, but I think the spellin’ will be korrect, zeptin the word afore menshun’d which, if so be as you known how to spell it, you can put it in if you likes.

I know that strictly speaking it is not a Barlick related issue, but ... has anyone heard the term Loblolly?

[Stanley]

Morning Rossy, nice to see you popping in. I've come across loblolly but as loblolly boy, someone used as a gopher (go for this, go for that) Generally a term of contempt and I have heard it sometimes in common speech if someone was running somebody else down.

[David Whipp]

Is there a nautical connection for loblolly?

[Wendyf]

Lovely letter Rossylass! We have a little blackboard in the kitchen where we write a shopping list as shortages occur but they have to be spelt as badly as possible ...very similar to some of the words in your letter.

[plaques]

I was told that it referred to the old time ships crew members who threw the body parts overboard after the ships surgeon had done his bit. I can't confirm this but it came from a pal who did round Britain yachting.

[Tripps]

That seems to be right - but I also came across this. . .
"probably from English dialect lob to boil + obsolete English dialect lolly - broth
First Known Use: 1597"
So - related to Lob scouse ? which of course is Liverpool's version of Tater 'ash.

[Stanley]

Almost certainly David....

[Stanley]

'Dawdle' as in "he was dawdling down the street". Now where did that one come from and how common is it?

[Tizer]

I don't know about dawdle but I've discovered that to `egg' someone on is simply an Old Norse word for `encourage' and came here with the Vikings.

[Stanley]

'Eigg' as in the Isle of is old Norse for 'notch' because of the shape of the island.
I was singing an old army song to myself today, 'Maggie Mae' and in the extremely rude army version there is a reference to her knickers described as 'keks'. I have heard that in the Liverpool area for trousers or nether garments but never in Barlick. How common was it?

[PanBiker]

I knew of and used keks as trousers, fairly common usage when at school.

[Stanley]

Eric Spencer, gents outfitter in Ilkley always used to refer to a pair of trousers as "a trouser'. I looked up the origin in Webster. Fairly modern word thought to derive from a combination of 'trews' and 'drawers'.

[Stanley]

Ian referred to the 'flicks' this morning. Lovely, it's years since I heard that one! Origin of course is the way the early films flickered because of the slow frame rate.

[Bodger]

A word that ive not heard for a long time "cronk" as in cronk down, to sit on your haunches

[Cathy]

When celebrating something you often hear the term Charge your glasses '
This kind of charge means 'to fill'. British English formal or French from Charger

[chinatyke]

I was listening to the song Black Velvet Band and noticed the word traipsing. We used that regularly when I was a kid, but where does it come from and is it in regular use?

(The Chinese have crippled Google here so I cannot look it up.)

[Stanley]

Never heard 'cronk' before....
Traipsing. According to Webster it's an obscure variation of 'trape' a word vaguely associated with tramp. Seems to be a 19th century origin.

[Cathy]

I've often used the phrase People traipsing around like they own the place. Referring to people who are given a bit of authority but think they have power over everything.

[Cathy]

I said the phrase Bloody Nora! today when I learnt that over 11,000 hectares were burnt in the Adelaide Hills fire, perimeter 160kms. Have a look on Weather Topic for some images.
(Sorry Nora whoever you are:) )

[Stanley]

Have a look at THIS for a possible origin of the phrase Cathy. Mind you, beating someone to death with a stick of celery seems a bit far-fetched!

[Cathy]

I can accept Nora becoming Horror because of the accent but the celery part sounds like an urban myth to me.

[Stanley]

I suppose it all depends on how big the weapon was. If it was a complete root I suppose you could do some damage.
If you can describe someone as being 'inept', can a person be 'ept'?