ENERGY MATTERS

[plaques]

Inflation is dropping like a stone feather. The good news is that its because petrol prices have dropped. Fortunately I filled my car up twice once at the higher price and then at the lower price. As luck would have it I kept both the receipts. Tomorrow I'll be down to the petrol station to get my refund on the price difference. That's how it works isn't it.

[Stanley]

David, I agree, the fact that 90% of 'carbon offsets' are useless doesn't surprise me. add in deals like the one that keeps Drax going burning North American forests!
That's right Ken and it works for your grocery bills as well, I reckon we can all get .02% extra divi from the Co-op....

[Tizer]

From the beginning carbon credits were a scam and it's a reflection of the terrible mess we've got into with money-makers able to fool politicians and offer business leaders a way to easily boost their `green' image and avoid doing the work and research needed to counter climate change.

[plaques]

Will the price of natural gas drop? No, not according to the gas producers. They need the extra profit to develop new technology for producing Hydrogen, the supper clean green fuel. Which comes from..... Natural gas, ie: methane. CH4. All they have to do is split it and get rid of the Carbon in a safe way without adding it to the atmosphere. So far there is no known way of doing this in any cleaner way than burning gas itself. Another circular argument for keeping profits high and the gas flowing.

[PanBiker]

H2O as we all know as water.

I remember producing hydrogen from water at school using electrolysis. Cant see a problem in scaling it up and then using the Hydrogen to produce steel. That way we don't need another coal mine, simple, and clean.

Why don't they build hydrogen plants on the end of all our power stations?

[Tripps]

H2O as we all know as water.

Some have gone a little further with it and come up with Dihydrogen Monoxide.

[PanBiker]

Indeed but that does not alter the fact that you can extract Hydrogen from ordinary water.

[Stanley]

Cheap Hydrogen will come when we have electricity from fusion, not until.

[PanBiker]

We will be waiting a long time then I reckon. I cant see why a scaled up version of our standard science experiment can't be made workable here in the UK, that and other technologies for the interim. The USA produces about 10 million metric tonnes per year using a range of technologies including electrolysis, the latter are tied to their nuclear driven electricity production.

[plaques]

Cold fusion (Fleischmann–Pons ) was room temperature fusion. We have now moved up a notch to Low Temperature Nuclear fusion, but still not replicated by other scientists. Don't hold your breath. As Ian says water electrolysis is the obvious choice but we would need an excess of wind, wave, nuclear to make it work. The big oil companies are not keen on losing the profits from dirty energy and nuclear is years away. The southern counties don't want their country side spoilt with windmills and wave energy takes 40 before it shows a profit. The rich can afford high prices and the poor will just have to make do. Nothing new in the world.

[Tizer]

I remember producing hydrogen from water at school using electrolysis. Cant see a problem in scaling it up and then using the Hydrogen to produce steel. That way we don't need another coal mine, simple, and clean.

It's already done in Sweden where they have ample HE to make the leccy and use that to split water to yield hydrogen and oxygen.

Splitting methane not only gives you hydrogen but the pure carbon released is then used in the steel process.

[PanBiker]

For what steel industry we have left I would have thought that the Hydrogen route would have been a much better option than a new coal mine, I suppose it comes down to who will make most money from any development unfortunately.

[Stanley]

The only comment I would make about using coking coal in our steel making is that if it has to be used I would rather it was mined in this country under acceptably safe conditions. There is no such guarantee with coal imported from some countries abroad, the cheapest coal usually comes from the most dangerous mines.....

[Tizer]

`The race to make diesel engines run on hydrogen' LINK
`It's a new hydrogen-diesel hybrid engine affectionately known as "baby number two" that could help to decarbonise some of Australia's heaviest industries. The test rig is large - it has its own room adjoining a lab and looks at first glance like many other large motors, but beneath its metallic skin could lie game-changing technology. Engineers at the University of New South Wales (UNSW) say they have successfully modified a conventional diesel engine to use a mix of hydrogen and a small amount of diesel, claiming their patented technology has cut carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions by more than 85%.'...

[Stanley]

I wish them well but you can't get a pint out of a quart pot and it's the energy for weight ratio that is the killer. Don't put money on hydrogen power for high torque applications any time soon.....

[Tizer]

Hydrogen power for high torque applications are already developed to give high torque. There are many examples, e.g....
`Hydrogen ICE trucks offer lower cost shift away from diesel' Westport
`...Westport even sees a significant bump in performance from its hydrogen ICE engine versus a diesel equivalent, including 20% more power and 18% more torque.'...

And this from a year ago, referring to a JCB project...
`Spark ignition is used to ignite the directly-injected hydrogen, and the engine’s compression ratio is reduced accordingly. A large variable-geometry turbo-charger (twice the size of the standard diesel unit) is specified for two reasons: one being that hydrogen does not disperse well in a confined cylinder so the momentum of a big slug of air is needed to mix the gas, and the other is that a generous supply of controllable intake air allows the torque characteristics of a conventional diesel engine to be replicated.' LINK

[Stanley]

The problem is Peter the amount of fuel they need to burn to give the total energy load. Nothing beats diesel for packing the most useable energy in the smallest space. This is important when the vehicle has to carry its own fuel supply. The fuel tank ends up being the largest component of the vehicle.

[PanBiker]

Octopus currently have a peak time energy saving drive. They pay you for saving units over predefined periods. The saving sessions are notified on the website and via the Octopus app that you can get for smart phones. You opt in to the notified session and then they pay you £3.37 per unit of energy saved during the period. Today's session is 17.00 - 18.00, easy really, we will make a brew just before 5pm switch as much of as is practical and delay making tea until after 6pm.

[Stanley]

My gas fitter made an interesting comment yesterday when I was talking to him about Centrica's failings. He said that the word on the street was that Octopus are spending a fortune on customer relations at the moment to 'buy' new customers. Of course, as he works for them you could say well he would say that wouldn't he. But he sounded genuine to me and that's just the sort of behaviour you would expect a canny management indulge in.
Worth thinking about......

[PanBiker]

The energy saving initiative announced yesterday in the media as a first. Octopus have been operating the scheme since last November. They have also taken over Bulb Energy which failed.

I have opted in to today's saving session, slightly extended 16.30 - 18.00

Tea already planned, Chilli's from the freezer. Potatoes will be par cooked in the microwave before 4.30pm then finished off in the air fryer at 6pm while the chilli's are heating. Grating the cheese doesn't involve any mains supplied energy.

[Tripps]

The energy saving initiative announced yesterday in the media as a first

It's a National Grid scheme. Octopus are one of many participating energy companies. It was used in California a while ago and the inevitable outcome has been Time of use pricing

This is a little bribe is to get a higher uptake of remote metering. The energy companies then as above, can charge different rates for different times of the day. There'll be no choice once that happens.

The media today don't seem to understand the scheme, and some silly amounts of refund have been bandied about. As I understand it, a comparison will be made between what you actually use in the designated time period and the average of your previous use in the same period. The refund will be calculated on the difference.

I can't think of any other business where you are incentivised to buy less of the product.


Seperately - I'm struggling to understand why someone with a prepayment meter (cash in advance with no risk at all to the Company) pays a higher tarriff than someone who buys the product on credit.

[Stanley]

"I'm struggling to understand why someone with a prepayment meter (cash in advance with no risk at all to the Company) pays a higher tariff than someone who buys the product on credit."
What a good point! We all used to pay in advance by a coin in the slot at one time. Then we started getting a paper bill once a month which we paid at the local Gas Showroom.
Happy days......

[Big Kev]

Seperately - I'm struggling to understand why someone with a prepayment meter (cash in advance with no risk at all to the Company) pays a higher tarriff than someone who buys the product on credit.

It's to pay for the extra infrastructure used to 'top up' the meters. Paypoint, Payzone, Boost etc. They'll all want their bit of the pie.

[Stanley]

I had a spell yesterday when I had repeated calls on the landline. I never pick it up as it is always a nuisance call. There were so many calls I did 1471 and looked the number up. Here's what I found....
The phone number +441183150367 is rated neutrally by the users on our website and is mostly categorized as a survey, According to tellows's users the caller claims to be calling from British Gas. After some research, we have not found who is behind this number, and this certainly does not add to the reliability of the number itself. If you are not sure about the caller, you should hang up. We recommend not calling the number back or giving the caller any personal information.
Other receivers have said it is a robo call for a survey following a BG gas engineer's visit.
All I can say is that it's an intrusion and I can do without it.

[Pluggy]

Came across this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64261457 Remids me of me......

Regarding hydrogen, my opinion is that its a non starter for everthing except planes and rockets. As as already been started its incredibly bulky for the energy if contains. On top of that its very explosive, difficult to store, rots iron and steel and leaks on a whim. You can only be cleanly produce it by electrolysis and electrolysis is at the very best 50% efficient. Getting it out of natural gas produces more CO2 for the energy produced than just burning the natural gas. Piping it into homes for domestic heating is pure folly, The government would be better listening to scientists than lobbyists fpr the fossil fuel industry who are very keen to promote prosucing it from their stuff and then somehow magicking the carbon away. Don't get me started on carbon capture, its entirely un proven, trials have expensive failures. Its a bigger scam than recycling plastic.

Electric for land transport, ideallly through cables like trains, trams and trolley busses, batteries otherwise. Private motorised transport is a luxury we can't afford (as the government is finding out, Electic cars won't be enough to meet carbon targets they've committed to) Heat pumps for space and water heating, Ammonia for shipping (ships have lots of space to deal with using a poison as fuel) Curtail air transport as much as possible. Then humans as a species might make it to 2200