My mate and firebeater, John Plummer, about his business in the boiler house at Bancroft in 1977. A good firebeater is an engine tenter's best asset. John kept the steam locked on the pressure I wanted for the engine no matter what the rest of the mill demanded of him. This skill was never fully recognised by those who hadn't experienced the job. A good man and I miss him.
STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
My mate and firebeater, John Plummer, about his business in the boiler house at Bancroft in 1977. A good firebeater is an engine tenter's best asset. John kept the steam locked on the pressure I wanted for the engine no matter what the rest of the mill demanded of him. This skill was never fully recognised by those who hadn't experienced the job. A good man and I miss him.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Stanley and Newton playing out at Ellenroad in 1985. Newton was a great help to me when I was reviving the engine at Ellenroad. It was good to have someone with his experience checking up on me and making sure I didn't go astray. He taught me all I know about engines.... a good man and I miss him.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
One of the surprising things about steam engines was that all the time I ran Bancroft we never had to pay anyone for ash disposal. There was always someone who wanted some for a path or foundation for a patio. In the old days many mills charged local builders for running a mortar mill off the end of the lineshaft and using the clinker from the boiler to make ash-lime mortar. If you look at the older buildings in the town you can date them by the mortar, pre the steam engines it was lime mortar, after that it was ash-lime, a very good mortar. The fly ash from the flues was kept separate because it was the best thing ever for bedding stone flags on because, due to the sharp edges on the grains, once tamped in position it was stable unlike sand. Here's my old GP Arthur Morrison doing his bit to keep us tidy.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
The lineshaft in Bancroft weaving shed. At the far end, where is had reduced to 3" diameter it poked through the wall and was used at one point as the drive for a mortar mill run by a local builder to make ash lime mortar form the boiler clinker. This was a vary common arrangement in the early mills when vast quantities of mortar were required for the expansion of the mill towns.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Bit off piste but a good place to post a pic of the classic lime mortar that was the old standard for building before ash-lime mortar became available after the steam mills came to town. The black flecks are unburned bits of fuel used in the kiln. Over the years this mortar sets like glass. This example was in the gable end wall of the knicker shop that Sally ran at the end of Frank Street.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Scaling the inside of the boiler at Bancroft, hot and dirty but essential.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
That picture was done by Daniel Meadows. If you look carefully you'll see there are three blokes in there.....

Inside the Lancashire boiler at Bancroft in 1977. Lots of information here. You're facing the front of the boiler. On the left is the extended feed water inlet pipe, it discharge well into the boiler to mitigate the electrostatic corrosion caused by the intermixing of relatively cool water with the superheated water under pressure in the boiler. The corrosion attacked the pipe instead of the boiler plates. The arrangement of pipes hung above the furnace tubes is the float for the low water warning valve. The two Adamson furnace tubes take up most of the space, the riveted joints have spacer rings in them which aid flexibility in them during expansion and contraction. First used by Dan Adamson in Manchester, hence the name. Notice the thin layer of scale. This is ideal, enough to protect the plates against corrosion but not enough to hinder heat transfer, this shows that the water treatment was well-matched to water quality and operating conditions.
Inside the Lancashire boiler at Bancroft in 1977. Lots of information here. You're facing the front of the boiler. On the left is the extended feed water inlet pipe, it discharge well into the boiler to mitigate the electrostatic corrosion caused by the intermixing of relatively cool water with the superheated water under pressure in the boiler. The corrosion attacked the pipe instead of the boiler plates. The arrangement of pipes hung above the furnace tubes is the float for the low water warning valve. The two Adamson furnace tubes take up most of the space, the riveted joints have spacer rings in them which aid flexibility in them during expansion and contraction. First used by Dan Adamson in Manchester, hence the name. Notice the thin layer of scale. This is ideal, enough to protect the plates against corrosion but not enough to hinder heat transfer, this shows that the water treatment was well-matched to water quality and operating conditions.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Jack from Weldone entering a hot boiler for more scaling. Not the best job in the world.....
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Jack Platt on ash disposal duty in 1977 at Bancroft Shed.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Dennis Sterriker and Joe Elstone at Bancroft in 1977. They worked as a team always for Rochdale Electric welding and did my boiler repairs during the annual shut down. Dennis was a welder and riveter and Joe was his labourer. Good hands!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Resetting the boiler at Ellenroad in 1988. Almost finished, the side flue tiles are in place, insulated with ash and the slag wool is there to allow movement as the boiler expands. More ash to go on and then the flags on top.
Stanley Challenger Graham
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scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
The finished job in 1989. Ready for some insulation.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
A better picture of the finished job. Tidy, and a lot of work went into getting this result. I doubt if there is a better boiler setting in the country.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
In contrast, here's the 60 year old boiler top at Bancroft Shed in 1977. Asbestos insulation and leaky brickwork in the settings.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
One type of steam engine was of course the steam hammer. Here's a model hammer I made. I tried it out on lead strip and it worked well! Let's put it this way, you wouldn't want your finger in it when it dropped!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
5 mins. + of barring engines
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPW0BehBfE0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPW0BehBfE0
- Stanley
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Good stuff Bodge!

The barring engine at Bancroft. 1977.
The barring engine at Bancroft. 1977.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
The barring engine at Jubilee engine Padiham. The small flywheel was handy, you could bar the engine over by turning it using a tommy bar in the holes on the rim.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
The big barring engine on the Ellenroad engine. This was a replacement as the original suffered an accident. It had a lot of weight to move when the ropes were on the wheel, not only the 85ton flywheel plus all the motion work on the engine but all the shafting in the mill as well. At Victoria in Earby there was so much weight and friction in the shafting that they had to bar the engine over for half an hour before starting on a cold morning. If they had simply put steam on the engine it would have sheared the crank pin off before it moved the weight. Remember, there was no clutch! The weight was instantaneous.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Bit of a cheat this one as the Whitelees never had a barring engine, it was moved round by pulling on the spokes of the flywheel. However, as installed at the Holcroft Foundry the engine could be rotated by an electric motor driving the roller chain in the picture.
Stanley Challenger Graham
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scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Terry Gissing supervising the rebuilding of the flywheel on the Jubilee engine at Masson. This gives a very clear idea of how the spokes were located and secured in the flywheel boss. The two registers turned on the spoke locate it in the hole in the boss. The orientation is marked by fitters marks on the boss and the spoke and it is drawn into the hole by the large cotter. There are also four massive studs just to make sure. The Flywheel on the Whitelees engine was exactly the same construction but without the holding down bolts. The interesting thing about this design is that it can all be achieved on a large lathe. Remember that accurate planing machines big enough to generate flat surfaces were not common when these engines were built.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Whitelees engine opening ceremony 13 May 1992. 'Barring' the engine over into a starting position.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Brew time at Berry's Whitegate sawmill at Sough near Earby in 1989. The shop was driven by a gas engine and the unique feature of the shop was that the lineshafts were under the floor and drove upwards. None of the usual exposed belts.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
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Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Apologies for the quality, I must have had the shakes that day! The Mayroyd water wheel at Hebden bridge. It and its weir and culvert are a Scheduled Monument and it is believed it is a Fairbairn wheel.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!