SHED MATTERS 2

[Stanley]

I went in the shed as happy as could be. I had made up my mind what I was doing.



On my Harrison quick change toolpost I have a block that has a Morse taper hole, for drilling obviously. I have never used it and having seen John using a dial gauge on his toolpost I decided to make a fitting from an old drill to do the same on mine. So far so good. I cleaned the old drill up and cut the fluted part off it and grabbed an adapter to fit it in the Morse 5 to 4 adapter I use in the headstock mandrel. As I put it in I remembered something Mick said the other day about the taper size, he doubted whether it was MT5. So I decided to investigate as it has always stuck out too far from the nose. A bit of blue on the taper and a plug in and bugger me he's right! It's nowhere near an MT5 and I have been happily turning between centres on it for 20 years!
So, I started digging.... I could find nothing and another thing I couldn't find was the specification sheet for the lathe I was sure I had! So I decided to go to the source and rang Heckmondwyke. Would you believe it but the only bloke who could have answered my question retired four weeks ago. They have no information about these older lathes, someone decided the archives were taking up too much space.
So, back to tinternetwebthingy...

My mandrel is 1 3/8"! bore and 1 5/8" at the screwed nose. (That's another thing, according to all the information I have found they discontinued the screwed nose before mine was made!) So another trawl on the web. What I've found is a reference to the internal radius at the nose is bored out to 1degree 26minutes and they say this translates to 1.5 degrees on the top slide to give this taper. This doesn't sound right to me, according to me there are 60 minutes in a degree so this isn't entirely accurate. Still, it's somewhere to start from!
So Mick, apologies to you, forget the MT5 centres and please let me know if this squares with what you found with your Harrison which is just about identical to mine.
I'm going to go back in and see what I can do about making an adaptor that fits! The clock is on hold for a while!

12:00 and I've made me dinner. Jack is walked and I'm sat down.... I went back in and decided that the most pressing matter was not the clock but a new centre that actually fits the mandrel. It will be soft but that's no problem as it has no wear on it.



First job was to set up a piece of old mill shafting I had about me. Too far out of the chuck so a little used accessory cane out, the fixed steady, When I bought this lathe, the fixed steady, the travelling steady and the four jaw chuck all had their original factory grease protection on them.



This is close of play. The bar is surfaced and centre drilled and ready for turning. Before I start I have to do some calculating....

[Bodger]

Re taper query, have you tried this link,
http://www.lathes.co.uk/

[Stanley]

Thanks Bodge, yes but I couldn't even find my lathe on there. According to every site I have looked at mine has the wrong mandrel in it for the year it was made. I know it's how it came out of the factory because Bolton Technical College bought it new and never did anything with it but use the three jaw that came with it. They didn't even use the screw-cutting gear or the power traverse because the gear wheel to drive the Norton box was hung in the back of the housing still greased up from the factory. In fact the only dust I found on it was compressed resin so I doubt if they even used it for metal. Health and safety gone mad I suppose.
However, a good sleep worked wonders. I woke up with the answer and the silly thing is that I solved it about a fortnight since.



Remember this when I started making the fly-cutter? I made a soft centre by turning a 60dagree cone on a silver steel rod held in the Harrison collet chuck. Guess what the collets mount in....



This bush which goes in the nose of the mandrel and is of course exactly the right taper because it was made by Harrisons for this lathe! So all I proved this morning was that I am a bum turner and not fit to let out. Forget all the preparations for turning the taper. I don't need to do any of that because I solved it a fortnight ago and never even realised it.
The reason I started off on this hare was that I wanted a way of holding the MT2 shank off the old drill true while I drilled it for the extension that will hold the indicator clock. My mind was fixed on an MT adapter from the taper in the mandrel to MT2, the taper on the drill. I realised when I woke up that there is an easy way round that one as well, Put the shank in the tail stock just like a normal drill and put the drill in the three jaw chuck or a collet. It has to be dead in line because I checked the tailstock alignment only the other day.
I promise I will try to do better......

[doubleboost]

The books arrived today
Looking forward to a good read
I think Mick will be down your way soon
I have a xl polo shirt or a medium ( I wear a xl)
Thanks again for the book
John

[micktoon]

Hi Stanley, Glad you are getting things worked out for the lathe bush, one thing I have learnt about the large bore screwed spindle is its the same internal taper as the L00 fitment that took over from the screwed nose version so the bush fits our type and its not hearsay as that is what my bush is off, I can measure mine if you need, mine only has MT2 internal so an MT3 might be better. Another way of getting around the problem if you are just doing a quick job ( Keith Fenner on Youtube did this ) put a bit of bar in your 3 jaw and turn a 60 degree point on it and as long as you do not take it out its spot on, he keeps a bar and just re skims it each time to true it up. It will stick out but if that odes not matter for the job in hand its a quick way of getting a spot on centre.
Stanley the MT4 arobor thing is for face mills like this I think http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EMR-5R-50-22- ... 3f363b985b, they come in various diameters and the drive dog type bits differ for various cutters too.
Sounds like the books have arrived so thanks for that, I will be seeing John this week so will pick up your polo shirt .
Keep up the good work

Cheers Mick.

[Stanley]

Mick, as you can see the arbor is solved, I already had one for the collet set and can get the size off that if I ever decide to make a centre for the mandrel but that's not a priority.
Glad John has the books, I hope you enjoy reading about the big jobs and the story of my Pickles' lathes is in there as well.
Grab the XL short for me....
I'm sure you are right about the arbor, again, not a biggie, it's just that I tripped over it in the treasure chest and it puzzled me.
All well and I look forward to a visit, I shall fill the boot with goodies.....

[Stanley]

No messing about this morning. A bit of a clean up and straight into the job in hand, mounting an indicator on the quick change tool post.



Back to front drilling but just as effective. Then a bit of careful turning. I have to measure everything twice and then check it again. Slows me down but avoids mistakes. That's why it took me until 11AM to do such a simple job. Never mind, it's finished.



A good clean round, get the swarf out and that will do for the day....

[Stanley]

Today will be more tool-making. Edge finders a la Doubleboost this time....
12:30. everything done, my dinner made and I stop for the first time since 07:30. I'm doing better at standing in the shed now, the muscles are getting used to it and I'm a lot more mobile than I was when I was sat reading.



All me ducks in a row, the bearings and stock bar ready for a start. The bearings are all used ones and so the first job was to wash them out with paraffin.



Close of play and we are fully equipped with ball bearing edge finders. The bearings are a close fit on the shafts and will not come off as they have had a coat of Loctite shaft fit... Once again an occasional mistake with the measuring but patience and plenty of bar to go at solved that one! Well pleased with the morning....

[Stanley]

It's been a busy morning.... I started with a clear idea in my head, I wanted to make a carriage stop for the lathe bed like John's. Thinking about how to make it set my mind onto the subject of hexagon head screws and I realised that I hadn't seen my handy little set of Allen Keys in a holder for a while. This nagged me and I decided to have a search for it. Big mistake! (But first I had a good clean up on the lathe and vacuumed the floor....



One of the first things that happened was that I realised I had never addressed this block full of various small milling cutters so I allowed myself to be diverted into looking at what was in there as I hadn't looked for years. That blew away half an hour....



Getting back to the Allen Keys... I realised I had to go through all my toolboxes to see where I had secreted them. This was the first box...



Someone once asked me why I had so many spanners, I told them it was because I was a lousy fitter. In truth, in those days you needed at least three sets, Whitworth, AF and Metric. When I opened this box I realised that this was a good time to sort out some Whitworth spanners for ready use as I often have to go all round the shed to find a particular one. So I put a selection in a metal tray that sits behind the Harrison lathe. I still hadn't found the Allen keys...



Eureka, I found them, would you believe in the rack of boxes on the wall over the bench, one of which was clearly labelled Allen Keys.... By this time I was in seek and find mode and I decided that I wanted to get the other toolbox out from under the stairs which weighed well over 100lbs....



As you can see this is full of washers and Whitworth nuts and bolts. So many times I have needed a nut or a particular bolt but it has been too much trouble to get this box out. In addition it has square headed bolts in it as well, very old but ideal for making holding down bolts for the beds of the milling machines. I found a new home for this box below the grinder where it won't be in the way and is accessible. Definitely an improvement! I won't bore you with the other goodies I found during the search, like my collection of brass wire brushes and some files I had forgotten about.



By this time the carriage stop wasn't a runner and so I filled my oil gun and went over the Harrison miller and the lathe. Give Harrison their due they put plenty of oil nipples on their machines, they wanted them to last forever. Every one given a good dose of oil.



One thing I forgot to mention the other day was that I remembered this Teng dish. If you haven't seen one before you might wonder what's special about it. They have a powerful magnet in the base covered with rubber and stay where they are put on steel. Anything steel inside them is glued to the dish so in theory you can mount them vertically. Just the thing for part of my centre drill collection.

So, a tale of what some people would see as a wasted morning but it definitely wasn't, it was another step towards the perfect workshop. Very tiring, five hours on my feet but Im happy with where I am now! Tomorrow is carriage stop once I have my usual Friday tasks out of the way.

[doubleboost]

Good job on the edge finders
A dab of paint helps one see them slowing down
Regards
John

[Stanley]

All thanks to you John. Watching your videos is fascinating and it was you that triggered me off again when my eyes went AWOL! Measuring is a bugger but I'm learning fast! (I can always blame my mistakes on my eyes now!)
I am working my way through your videos John and yesterday loaded Brewery Shaft Nenthead fully expecting to see you in the shed making a shaft for a brewery. Bugger me it was you doing the opposite of what I used to do, instead of going 250 feet up a stack you were going 250 feet down a shaft. Interesting stuff and of course right up my street, Industrial Archaeology was and is still my day job. I'd recommend you all to go to Youtube, type in Doubleboost and look for the video....
I'm chasing another of your tips John, I want to make a carriage stop like yours. I made one but found it worked better on the 1927 lathe. Yours is a much better design for the Harrison.

[Stanley]

This was the start of the morning at nine o'clock. The object of the exercise was to make an accurate template of the profile of the front edge of the bed of the lathe for the carriage stop.



Close of play. Don't laugh at how long it took me, it ain't easy when you can't see.....
That’s enough for today!

[micktoon]

Hi Stanley , good to see you have been sorting out and getting the shed ship shape and Bristol fashion I laughed at your comment about the template ' don't laugh ' I did but only because I know that type of thing once done looks like it would take two minutes but can take all morning ( even with good ish eyes lol ) I stronly recommend you to make that twice the length you need Stanley, that way once its done with no mistakes ( I have faith in you ) ................You can give me the other half you no longer need as it should fit my lathe nicely

In your box of small milling cutters you have two with wheel type tops angled to an pointed edge with serrated teeth, I have one similar but its got say 2mm shank and I thought was a dental type burr but a couple of dentist types have seen it and said its not dental, its handy for carving so had wondered what it was maybe a watchmakers milling cutter of some sort ? , I will get a photo of it and post it.
Keep up the good work.
Oh the Clarkson arrived and is not bad at all , needs a good sorting out but works and all there really machine wise , just some attachments to find.
Cheers Mick.

[Stanley]

What a good thought Mick! And just in time... I was thinking about making the marking out easier because we both know that transferring from a card template to the material is yet another place where the whole thing can go wrong. I decided to drill holes where the angles meet.... I shall make two and send you the best one!
On the subject of mistakes, I have always published mine on Shed Matters because I know a lot of beginners read the posts and it'd dishonest to hide your errors, they can learn for them as well. I remember making the con rods for the 5As I was making and forgot to but the journal at right angles to the crank bearing, luckily they made good blanks for the valve rods so I partially saved the situation.
Those bevelled cutters are very old and almost certainly for gear-cutting escapement wheels for clocks. If yours are so small, they would be for watches. Funnily enough, I have a friend who makes clocks and keep letting my eye wander over designs for a simple bracket clock....
Email me your street address so I can post the clamp.....

[Stanley]

All right, before anyone starts nagging I know I was playing about... The job was to make two blanks for the carriage stops starting from a piece of second hand 2" shafting. I decided that it would be a good thing to oil up the 1956 lathe and do the initial clean up cut on that just to meke sure everything was OK. So here I am having fun! I soon got serious....



I set the bar up in the steady and got a clean diameter before parting a 2" lump off.



Close of play, all I have to do now is split this in two....
On the way round the 1956 lathe I found one or two things that needed tidying up. So even more improvements and I;m well pleased. We are not on piece work!!

[Stanley]

I was a good lad this morning, got in there and made the two blanks, nicely finished and chamfered. Then I painted them with blue and the next bit was what took the time, transferring the template to the blanks in the proper position, marking them up and then spotting all the engles just inside the measurements to leave me room for some fitting after the meat has been taken out.



Then I set up the mill with a small centre drill in place and altered the belts to give me 1400rpm for the small drill. It's a pain changing the belts but there you are, it's only a cheap mill.



Close of play, ready for a start in the morning. One thing I did was put the mill on and let it run at speed for a minute or two because I oiled it the other day. It chucked oil out all over the shop but these things happen.
I was reminded of a story Newton once told mew about being called out to an engine that was running very badly, the governor was hunting all over the place. Newton soon sussed what the problem was, the governor hadn't been oiled for yonks. He got the tenter to stop the engine for two minutes while he gave the governor a good oiling with thin loom oil and then they restarted. Newton said the oil came out of the bearings like blood and he'd used plenty so it flew all over the nice clean engine house. The engineer complained bitterly but his governor soon settled down and started running as it should. No blood in the shed, just clean oil.....

[Stanley]

Started the morning off by spotting all my punch marks with a small centre drill. I used the X and Y axis to strai9ghten up the location of the centre pops where I thought they were a little bit out.



Then I drilled the main points of the angle changes right through with a 3/32" drill. By the time I had this done and the mill cleaned up it was 10:00 and time for me to go to the surgery to let Dracula take an armful of blood... Tomorrow I shall sort out a slitting saw.

[micktoon]

Hi Stanley , things are coming along very nicely, and looking neat too especially considering your eye troubles. I bet you will be right about them small cutters being for watchmaking, I will have to search the net and see if I can see them, a search for dental burr images came up with nothing looking like that at all.
I am looking forward to tomorrows progress now. As for my postal address, ...............I think the deal should be if you make the bed stop, I have to come and collect it Stanley

Keep up the good work.
Cheers Mick.

[Stanley]

That means no plunder visit until I have finished the stops!
I'm going to drill the retaining bolt hole to cutting size of the bottom thread before I cut the block in two. Plan is to saw inside my marked lines and file to fit. I can see some chain drilling on the horizon for one face! Now that's old fashioned for you!
Glad it looks neat, secret when you can't see is to do everything very slowly and try to anticipate the faults. Makes it hard but in the end I'll get there!

[Stanley]

In the shed before 08:00 and first job was to tidy the bench. The bar of brass surfaced yesterday when I was clearing a corner of the shed out. It was buried and I had forgotten it so it's now in a more handy position (in another corner!). The India stone has gone into the ready use honing stone box. All was cleaned up yesterday so straight into looking at the problem of getting my holding bolts in the right position. Lots of things to take into account, I didn't want to weaken the stop by putting the holes in the wrong position whare they were near interfering with the cut outs.



First thing I wanted was an accurate register on the periphery of the stops to aid setting up for the cuts. I wanted to do my machining of them as a pair so the best way was to use the through holes in the stops to register them both accurately against each other.



Once I was sure they were registered I marked the periphery and put a punch mark on for good measure. Then I clamped them together. Note that this is a forged clamp not a cast one so I could give it some welly!



Once I had them clamped it was relatively easy to transfer them to the milling vice and use the register line on the face which is at right angles to the body to get them clamped up level so the holes I was going to make would be vertical.



No going back now! You might wonder why I'm not going for it and simply putting in a 3/8" recess with a slot drill on the line of the bolt hole. Two things, first the fact my eyes are so bad and secondly because doing it this way enabled me to see clearly what the relationship between the bolt holes and the cut outs will be.



Once I was satisfied with the location I took a 3/8" register out with a slot drill, spotted both holes with a centre drill on the same setting as the slot drill and then boring straight through to tapping size for the 1/4 Whit cap screws.



Close of play. I have the holes in the right place and now I'm ready to cut the blocks in two prior to cutting out the internal shapes. That's enough for today... A good clean up so I have a straight edge tomorrow, everything put away. Tomorrow will be cutting things to pieces! No cock ups so far......

[Stanley]

Popped into the shed after tea for a bit of a gloat. Always a good thing to do. I found the arbour I had made for a slitting saw for another job and went to bed with the seeds of an idea in my head. This morning the back office in my brain delivered the results of the overnight committee meetings. Fit the retaining screws before splitting the block and cut out the triangular portion at the top before doing the easy flat bit at the bottom. Still mulling over the section of the shed roof shape at the top that I can't get the saw into.... At the moment chain drilling is the favourite! That's so old-fashioned. I hope something better occurs to me!

[Stanley]

First job was to drill the clearance hole part way through the block. No fancy measuring to get wrong, the old fashioned piece of Insulting tape on the drill as a marker. That done I took the saw and gear cutter I had used as a spacer off the arbor, found a good slitting saw and set about mounting it.



No half measures. These spacer washers with a key way cut in them will do for the arbor on the horizontal mill so I found a piece of EN8 (I don't know what they call it these days) got to size and started drilling the centre out. I wanted a 1" bore.



Over the years my acquisitive gene has served me well. I have a very full range of drills. It didn't take long to go through the sizes and bore the piece out to 1". I parted two washers off and cleaned them up. All they need now is the key way filing in them but I'd done enough...



Close of play....

[Stanley]

Yes, that's right. You should know by now that I like to have a straight edge each day in the shed. Couldn't resist it, went back in there and cut and filed the clearance holes for the key in the arbor that locates the slitting saw. No accuracy needed here, they are just clearance over the key so that they sit well on the saw. Marked therm with an 18T per inch hacksaw blade to get some meat out and soon had them filed square.



Johnny's 1927 lathe was just the tool to chamfer the edges of the spacers. Done in less time than it takes to tell and I was reminded once again what a lovely little lathe this is to work with. Runs sweet as a nut and cuts like silk with a sharp cutter because of the round leather rope drive.
So, I have my straight edge, I can start tomorrow with a clean up and getting the saw into the VM.

[micktoon]

Hi Stanley, looks like its full speed ahead now You are back into shed mode I am glad to see, you have too much skill and equipment to sit reading too much of the time lol. I like the locating rods through the two items Stanley , no slippage then.
I look forward to seeing the Horizontal mill in action again too , its been quite a while since you were chopping with it, I was always impressed with what it could do.
Cheers Mick.

[Stanley]

The Warco VM is a very basic tool made in Taiwan. Only eight speeds and no power drives on knee or table and definitely no DRO like John's! But it's reasonably accurate, built like a battleship and does a good job if used carefully. My unattainable dream is a big Bridgeport.... Harrisons made a vertical head for the horizontal mill but they are as rare as hen's teeth.
Will tap the holes in the stops first this morning and clear up. I mounted the saw late last night and even though I say it myself the arbor is a tidy job.