SHED MATTERS 2

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Stanley
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

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Enough shed improvement, I feel the need to do something concrete and with a purpose. I'm going to start by converting these excellent castings from my late friend Geoff Smith at Pitt Street foundry in Keighley into an HP cylinder for a Stuart 5A engine. They are worthless now as they are but when I've done it it could be attractive for anyone building a 5A with limited resources. The 5A is a bit too big for the normal 3" lathe and the biggest problems are the cylinder and the flywheel. I have both and it could be a good help for someone. I shall be doing it the way |Newton taught me. Everybody has their own way of approaching this. I note that Doublejohn starts with the face of the valve chest. I start with the cylinder ends. It could be useful for beginners to see the process as it applies to all such castings. This doesn't mean Newton's way is any better but he did know a thing or two about engines! His way was how they did it with the full size article.
One thing about quality of castings, Geoff used good iron and flaws and spongy shops are absent. Always examine your castings carefully before you start, especially for blow holes, the most usual fault with inferior metal. No point putting work into a bad casting. By the way, I shall be working from the original Stuart drawings even though Newton's version of the 5A was slightly different having a longer con-rod and hence slightly larger standards. Apart from that they are identical.

Later, 11:00. Only had 30 minutes in the shed, had to write an obituary....

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First job was to paint the castings where appropriate with layout ink. White for castings and blue for steel. This is in between because idle bugger me used the same brush. I did this early this morning so it would be be bone dry. Next job was a good clean up. Cast iron dust is mucky stuff and bad enough when it's dry but if it's mixed with oil and nasty swarf from yesterdays turning it's even worse. This way it can be vacuumed up frequently. I did the carpets as well, nowt like a straight edge and a clean start.

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Next job was to get the four jaw onto the lathe. As I've said before, this lathe was the best £1000 I ever spent. It came out of Bolton Technical College and god alone knows what they were teaching them. The four jaw, faceplate, catch plate and gear for the Norton box had never been used, still coated with the protective grease that was on it when it came out of the factory. It had only been used for turning Tufnol, I suppose on Health and safety grounds and the only thing that had any wear was the three jaw. So this 9" Pratt chuck is to all intents and purposes, brand new.
Tomorrow there are no distractions.... Looking forward to it! ( By the way, note the board on the lathe bed. Anyone can drop a chuck as it's coming off the threads on the nose and once you mark the ways it is there forever!)
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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I have finished all my tasks, girded my loins and got my act together. Let's go and make some muck!

11:25. A good morning....

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As Newton told me, grab it in the four jaw as best you can and machine a face on the end. It helps if you examine the casting carefully first and pic the best end to butt against the four jaw face, that way you stand a chance of getting the bore oriented correctly. Don't worry too much about any minor wobble because you're going to have to bore a lot out to get your two and a quarter diameter bore. Time for centre finding later. You’ll see that I got a good face using the brave little carbide tool that managed to cut the hard shank of the milling cutter the other day. The nominal length of the cylinder is 3" overall but no need to worry a lot about that because being a vertical there is no problem if it's slightly over length. Indeed, a bit extra can be a godsend if you get the centres on your crankshaft a bit wrong and finish up with a slightly longer stroke than you intended.

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When you take the casting out of the chuck slacken two jaws only and you'll find you can get a very similar register to what you had with the first end. Belt it a couple of times with a rubber mallet and listen to the note. You will be able to tell when it has seated properly, then tighten up all round and get stuck in again. This casting is a bit out because the end of the slide valve face is nearer the cylinder face on this end. Again, this is no problem, the only thing that is crucial is that the slide valve face is parallel and central to the bore, the critical thing is where you put the slots for the valve passages and that can be decided later.

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Nice to be able to get one of the toys out and use it on the cylinder. The faces measure at 3.185" and within a thou of being parallel. That'll do me.

So we have two parallel faces that are machined smooth enough for final assembly, they don't need any further treatment. Normally the next stage would be the throw the casting in the milling vice and cut the slide valve face concentric with and parallel to the bore but there is a problem with this set of castings in that the cast block on the side of the cylinder isn't dead square to the bore. In order to get an accurate measurement to choose the right orientation I need to find the centre of the bore but there is nothing there to mark! That's for tomorrow, there's an easy way round the problem...
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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I said yesterday that I was satisfied with the faces being within a thou of parallel. This cylinder ought to be perfect, god knows I've made enough of them. I went out and measured it again this morning and as I suspected my eyes had let me down, It's 3.197 max with a variation of 2 thou. This is nattering me and today I'll re-chuck it using the last face I turned against the chuck and give it a 5 thou skim and see what happens. I know it's not picking but one of the things even I forget is how castings react when you cut the as cast face off them. Castings are a mass of stresses and continually change shape as you machine them because you are relieving stresses. At one time every foundry had piles of castings outside rusting away. This was because they did the initial machining and then either aged them by leaving them in the weather for six months or 'normalising' them with a long soak in a furnace at red heat. This let the stresses out and they could do the final close fitting knowing the casting was relatively stable. When I was refurbishing old steam valves you could turn a face, go and have your lunch hour and when you came back the cut was uneven because even an old casting will relieve itself.
There won't be a lot done today because Mick is visiting to collect the plunder for him and John. I suspect they will be happy men.....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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It's been a busy day. Mick the Shed came

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And amongst other things brought me my Twastard Engineering Polo shirt from John.

He loaded up the plunder and we had a pot of tea and a good natter.

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Meanwhile, in the shed, I had found Johnny's wood turning cutter and made a mess of the lathe...

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I wanted a plug to drive in the end of the bore on the cylinder so I could find an accurate centre.

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Note how light it is, Mick brought me a couple of the Ikea LED lamps, just the job!

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Using the centre I had found I started boring the cylinder out. Notice another of the LED lights clipped above the lathe.

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I didn't bore it out to finished size but did enough to get a parallel hole in the right place with a fine cut to finish with to see what the finish was like. Lovely iron, a finish like this doesn't need anything more than a piston working in it to give a perfect bore.
That's enough for the day. Mick brought me a workshop manual for the T&G grinder as well. Nice visit and I think John will be pleased when Mick has a divi with him.....
I can now go about making sure the face of the slide valve is properly oriented and the right size. By the way, i skimmed the end face and it's now withinn half a thou. It had altered slightly during the night.....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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Hi Stanley I am finally back home, the usual road works and speed restrictions on the way back. I enjoyed the visit today and wish I had not been limited for time, good to see both You and Jack in good health. I am glad you liked the bits and Bob from John and Myself and thanks again for the plunder, I will be dividing out with John and am sure it will all be put to good use in future projects :grin: . Good to see you back in that shed anyway, I had been starting to get a bit worried in the summer that you had hung up your micrometer for good :laugh5:

Keep up the good work
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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So did I... I think that my eyes frightened me more than I thought they did, I was frightened in case I couldn't do it any more....
Now I have a hole in the centre of the casting I can do some proper measurements and make sure the slide valve face is in the right position.
Later at 08:10. I'm ready to go into the shed but thought I'd post a pic of one of the small lights Mick gave me. Absolutely brilliant in more ways than one. Thanks Mick!

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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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I once saw one bigger than that in Leeds Bodge. I was there to look at a boiler and the bloke showed me round saying he'd take me to see their planer. We went into the building and when I asked him where it was he said "You're stood in it!" They made Centurion tanks and they could plane three turret rings at once.

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After a lot of careful measuring and checking two or three times I was ready to pop the cylinder under the mill and machine the slide valve face. As always, the cylinder was a bit too big for the vice. I suppose I should have got the big one that Mick refurbished for me but it was easier to just take the back jaw plate out. I started cutting but wasn't satisfied with the cutter so I dressed the wheel on the T&C grinder and sharpened it again. Much better and left a very acceptable finish that won't take a lot of rubbing down to get a perfect seat.

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While I had it in there and everything was square I milled the sides of the valve block as well. That's enough for the day, I need my afternoon sleep, I missed out yesterday!
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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You look well in that shirt lol
Regards
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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Hi Stanley , glad the lights have helped with seeing what you are doing, looks like you have made somemore progress today too. I have been to Johns tonight and dropped off his plunder :grin: so he was very pleased.
This is a link to the site with the photos of Hendy lathes being made, some excellent photos on the 1943 factory tour. If I did not have a million other time consuming things on the go I would love to have a go at Painting a couple, I looked all over the net for photos like this the other year and found none, then stumbled on these by accident http://www.lathes.co.uk/hendeyfactory/
There is some skillful people in them photos, you would be hard pushed to find a place like that now The Hendys are American but there will have been lots of similar place in England too, sad that its just us in our shed now !

Cheers Mick.
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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John, does it mean I am now a member of the Barmy Army (Ponteland Branch)?
Mick, I wish I'd been there..... I've bookmarked the Hendy site, will look later.
I know some of you out there watch the Bum Fitter to pick up tips on specific things, (that's why I watch John Doubleboost on Youtube!). Be aware that newton died before he could finish my training so occasionally I go off piste. However, recognise that everything I have done to that cylinder so far refers back to the first two faces I found and established. Once I had the centre bored in I had a correct reference for the slide valve face. I squared the vice up on the mill bed using Johns ball bearing on a stick so I know that is parallel. When I cleaned up the sides of the face I kept the same depth setting on the cutter as I side milled it so there are two tiny ledges at the bottom of the face and when I use these today to mount the cylinder the other way up my cutter will be running dead parallel with the opposite face. The basic principle is to do things in such a way so that they are self-referencing and all square with each other. Makes fitting later on a lot easier.
Most satisfactory thing yesterday was going back to that cutter. Best sharpening job on an end mill I have ever done and due to reading the instructions John brought me! (I might whip through the other 3/4 cutters again on the same setting!)
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Bodger »

micktoon, thanks for the Hendey tour, have you looked at this site?, if you look under contributor Asquith you will find lots of great pics of old machine tools, here are some samples, you can look and enjoy any of his posts they are all interesting.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/an ... ls-168975/
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/an ... er-111890/
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/an ... es-112022/


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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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Bodge, Askers is a site member and yes, I've looked at a lot of his stuff.

I started the day by going through the 3/4 cutters again.

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Then I set the cylinder up again and cut the bosses that are the seats for the drain cocks.

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What we need to do now is bore it out to finished size. Best way would be to mount it on the saddle of the lathe and line bore it but the Harrison has no facilities for doing that easily so we'll do it a different way. First thing to do is sort out a boring tool, I've foumd one and set it up so we are almost ready... One thing I must do is make myself a good end cutting boring bar......;
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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Thanks John, I have bookmarked it for later.....
That boring bar kept me awake last night! However I'm going to finish the bore with the one I have even though I'm not completely happy with it. Then I might address the matter of making a better one for this size...... I have a very good piece of steel that might do, question is how machinable it is.....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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I've had a look at the video John put up and it covers the arrival of the plunder! Thanks for that John and particularly the link to the site.
If you want to see the video click this LINK

Later at 11:00.

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I've been on jankers today, having to do work caused by my own stupidity. No disasters, it's just that I slipped up when I did the initial machining on the bore, I should have mounted the casting so that I could finish it to size in one operation but I couldn't because the way I had it mounted, I would have been into the chuck at the end of the cut. Only one way round it, make a mandrel so I could accurately locate the chuck in the four jaw.

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I had a piece of old 2" mill shafting which was just the job. I turned it true and made sure I had a good centre in the outboard end. Then turn it down to a snug fit in the bore. Then it got frustrating! I wanted my Gilbows to cut a piece of lead to go between the cylinder and the chuck so I had proper warning when I got down to the blind end of the cut. Could I find them? I had tidied them up in the reorganisation and I can't find them for the life of me! As is always the case, in a couple of days I will stumble over them. One good thing was that during the 30 minutes I spent cursing and swearing I found out where I had put my hide hammers! One thing you might note, I gave the original Pratt three jaw a trot out, not as accurate as my Polish chuck but a bit bigger.

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I used a big pair of scissors to cut the lead. Here's the casting back in the four jaw supported by the centre and ready for checking in the chuck itself with the indicator. That will be the first job tomorrow. (Now where did I put those Gilbows.....)
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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I think I must have got my mojo back. I was in the shed at 06:30 this morning clocking the cylinder in the 4 jaw and getting it to within a thou of where it was before. All wasted work of course if I'd bored it to size in the first place...

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The way my eyes are I don't trust anything so I got the old Verdict indicator that Arthur Entwistle gave me when he retired from the tool room. Small range, very accurate and Arthur swore by it. It picked up a bit more variation so I made my final adjustments, made sure the casting was nipped tight and then set up the boring tool.

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This is a cranked carbide tipped cutter that Mick gave me the other day. A bit of sharpening and relieving and I think this will do a good job. I've set up the carriage stop at the end of the stroke and we are ready for some finish boring. When Newton was boring cylinders he always gave his cutters a rounded tip to avoid gramophone marks. If it was good enough for him it's good enough for me! Onward and upward!
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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Straight into boring and the first cut proved all the setting up was worthwhile, no change in note so it was parallel.

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I don't trust my eyes and so went very carefully. I was taking 20 thou a time, no rush and I measured with the digi callipers and a snap gauge and mike. No two readings the same, digi callipers are OK for a rough idea but give me the mike for accuracy. Quietly away and I finished up dead on the money, 2.250" last cut was 13 thou on my slowest feed and the finish of the bore is excellent.

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When the bore was finished, while it was still on the same set up I took a skim across the face, put a tiny bevel on the end of the bore and took a skim round the outside circumference to give me a register for the cover.

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That's enough for today. You can tell just by looking at it that it's right.... I'll tidy the other end up tomorrow.
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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Hi Stanley , you look like you are making up for lost time in the shed earlier on in the year and are making some good progress. As you say the finished job just looks right, very neat and tidy and lovely finish on the bore, well done :grin:
I am sure you will find plenty to keep you busy in the shed and with you having radiators too there will be no stopping for the winter either :wink:

Cheers Mick.
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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I have to admit that not lighting the stove yet is bothering me a bit but I console myself with the fact that the front room is still OK at night and the CH is probably still the cheapest option. Funny isn't it how something can look right, nice thing is it is also dead square and accurate, probably the best I have ever done. Very reassuring that care and experience can overcome the eyesight problem. Thanks to Mrs Harrison as well, she must be set up just right....
Shopping day today and I am a bit late up. I'm getting too good at this standing for a long time! When I was walking back from the shops at dinnertime yesterday I was convinced my braces must have come loose because the waistband of my trousers was flapping about. Braces were OK, it's me that's shrinking so another reason for quiet satisfaction.... I am a happy bunny!
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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Sorry Kids! No shed yesterday as I had to write enough articles for the paper to get us into January 2015. Normal service will be resumed later today.

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The job was to tidy up the other end of the cylinder so I mounted it in the four jaw and set about getting it flat to the chuck face and concentric. What a frustrating morning. I spent almost an hour trying to get somewhere near but in the end gave up on concentricity and simply faced the end to a good finish. My bad eyesight beat me! The next job is to cut the valve ports in the face so I blued it up and found the centre.

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This was the point where I took Jack for a walk and normally that would have been it but it struck me as I walked that if I had one of Doublejohn's ball bearing finders that would mount direct in the tool-holder it would make a job like this much easier. So when I got back I found a bit of square stock and a ball bearing. Mounted the 4 Jaw SC chuck and made myself a holder for the ball bearing.

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It didn't take long to make it but I knew that if I hadn't got it sat there ready I'd never make one in the middle of a job.

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Next time I hit that problem I shall have what I think is a solution!
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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Back from our walk before 08:00. I have a bit of cooking to do before I go in the shed but today's job is clearly in my mind. I want to accurately mark out the valve ports in the slide valve face. Drill and tap the passage through to face to the exhaust pipe and drill the steam passages. One word about the latter. Ignore any advice about drilling multiple holes, just drill the biggest one that will fit the size of your casting. I'm guessing that this will be 1/4" for this cylinder. Remember that one hole that size carries more steam than the equivalent in multiple holes. Remember your figure for Pye and do a few calculations....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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Brave words early this morning but things didn't turn out quite as planned.... First there was the housekeeping, washing and cooking. Then I realised I had a shirt that needed three buttons on it. Nowhere near as important as the shed of course but if you don't keep up with these things they overwhelm you in the end.

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When I went in the first thing that caught my eye and offended it was the rusty shank on the ball bearing finder I made yesterday. The right cutter was in the mill and everything was set up for it so I popped it in and squared it up, then ground a finish on the faces and broke the edges. Not a waste of time but there was still the cylinder.
As I've found out so often lately, accurate marking out is a challenge! It took me over half an hour to work out all my measurements, double check them and transfer to the vice on the mill table. I took care to set up the face dead level and then looked for a 5/32" end mill which is what the Stuart drawings say. I haven't got one so it will have to be 3/16". This is no problem as I can allow for the wider port when I make the slide valve. In one way it's better because the more room the steam has to get in, the better. Then I altered the drive belts to give me 1400rpm on the mill. By that time it was dog-walking time so I've left everything ready for cutting the ports tomorrow. Onward and upward!

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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by micktoon »

Hi Stanley , time well spent on the Bearing finder , it does look better and it will not annoy you each time you use it now :grin: I should get in my garage a bit this week I hope so will keep you posted on what i get up to. I went to a boot sale with John today and got some various sizes of silver steel rod, I am going to attempt to make some smaller size wood carving tools, they are about £25 - 30 each and there is not much to them so worth a go and I have been told the silver steel should hold a good sharp edge too.
The weather had improved today so the bootsale was on it had been horrible wet drizzle for two days previous.
The cylinder looks all ready for action tomorrow, hope all goes well .
Cheers Mick.
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

Yes, the cylinder is nicely set up, just some careful milling now with much waving of magnifying glasses and swearing! Those little lamps you gave me are a great help.
Silver steel is the ideal material for making wood carving tools. It's high carbon steel, exactly what the old lads used for the best tools. Ignore anything you hear about alloy steels or HSS, neither take as good an edge as carbon steel. Careful hardening and tempering when finished is the key and of course you know not to get them hot while grinding to shape. Best to get the initial form of the edge before you harden and temper and only sharpen by hand on a stone afterwards. Holtzappfel recommended honing with lapping paste on cast iron surface finishing with same same process on bronze for the perfect edge. Look up his goniostat for holding at the right angle when doing this.

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Stanley Challenger Graham
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