POLITICS CORNER

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

In 1947 when I took the 11plus things were a bit different. There were no colleges as such, a simple choice between sitting further entrance examinations for specific grammar schools, going to the secondary modern or if you were in the higher end of the results you were offered a place at Stockport School which was a sort of state grammar school but regarded as a peg below 'proper' grammar school. I sat three examinations for Manchester, Hulme and Stockport Grammar schools. All were difficult and the first report was that I failed all of them. There must have been a clearing process and eventually I got two offers, one for Hulme and one for Stockport. I took Stockport and never regretted it. I was advised to stay on in 1953 and go for university but I knew that my parents couldn't afford it so I went farming instead, another decision I never regretted. Eventually I went to Lancaster in 1979. I must have done good, they made me an Honorary Fellow.... I always remember my last meeting with my academic mentor Austin Woolrych (OBITUARY) when he informed me I had been incredibly lucky and had just missed being 'Tarred with the brush of academic brilliance' by getting a First. I think he liked mentoring me because as I was a mature student he could try out his latest wines on me!
One thing that struck me when I was doing the interviews for the LTP was the number of working class children who qualified at 11plus for Ermysteads or Skipton High School for girls but were prevented from going for a variety of reasons. One was by the move being blocked by the governors of the local school but the main reason was that the parents couldn't afford the cost of travel and uniforms. There is little doubt in my mind that all of them would have done at least as well as I did. Ian is right, the thinking behind this policy is elitist and it would be far better if the secondary schools were lifted to the level of the best grammar schools. New Road school at Barlick did this early on, all my daughters went there and all did well, two getting degrees at University. Given good teaching kids will rise to their level.....
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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It gets worse though, not only Grammars but all State and Faith Schools are going to be allowed to be selective. What next, marking the properties of lower ability children or ethnic minorities? Inclusion has gone out of the window and we will all be poorer for it.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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Why don't we simply call every secondary school `Grammar School' and then do something about the most important aspect, the quality of the teaching and the subjects studied? After all, that's really what it's all about, not what we call schools. Also I'd prefer to stop having `faith schools' and make them all mixed with regard to religion. Do away with RI as a subject in schools and leave it to parents to sort out with churches etc if they want their children to follow a religion. In school we would still discuss religion in lessons such as History and Life Studies but from an outside, unbiased view.

I'm bothered by all this talk about social mobility, especially with regard to schools and education. What does it mean? It seems to hark back to our British obsession with `class'. The more we talk about social mobility the more we reinforce old class distinctions. If it means shifting into a higher earning band then let's call it financial mobility. Are we frightened about the word `wealth', is it a dirty word perhaps? Or does social mobility mean career mobility? But let's get away from this focus on `class'. I'll bet people from other countries are puzzled by the phrase.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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I think this 'educational reform' is Mrs May throwing a dead cat onto the table. It will keep the media talking about something other than Brexit for a while. Seems to be working. :smile:

The two bald men were fighting over the comb again last night again. Not sure why - Paddy Power has closed the book. Corbyn was 20 to 1 on, at the last show.
Looks like he's home and dry.

PS Saw Jeremy on TV. He's certainly smartened himself up from when he first became leader. His jacket, shirt and tie ensemble was exemplary. :smile:
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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Good posts.... My only addition is that if we are going to chuck money at 'education', take class out of it immediately by putting it into Primary Schools!!
I think David is spot on with the dead cat. Just the thing to distract the hide-bound reactionaries in the Tory Party..... The fact that she is evidently behind this indicates that I might be right about May's Tory DNA. She could be further to the right than Cameron. Remember some of the heartless decisions taken on deporting migrants under her watch at the Home Office..... No compunction about splitting families.
Jeremy, I agree David about his dress. I think he has learned a lot about leadership in the last few months and wait to see what he will do if and when the vote is as overwhelming as it looks at the moment.
On the wider front, we are still not seeing any indication of what Brexit means or what the strategies are. Then add all the other decisions pending that Cameron kicked down the road..... (Cameron. Who he?)
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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"..throwing a dead cat onto the table.."
I've heard of the `dead cat bounce' but not that phrase. Is it a Tripps composition or am I not getting out enough?

While walking down our lane yesterday we were passed by a cyclist kitted out in all the usual cyclist gear. He was wearing a red shirt, had a beard and looked just like Jeremy Corbyn. So now we play a new game...`spot Jeremy'. It's surprising, once you start looking, he pops up everywhere!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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Quite the reverse I'd say. You get out plenty, and I spend far too much time on the world wide cobweb, and listening to talk radio shows. :smile:
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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Thanks, Tripps. I think that warrants a copy of the appropriate bit of the article being posted here:

It was Crosby who had been behind Michael Fallon’s attack on Miliband. In order to counter the apparent upturn in Labour’s campaign, Crosby had deployed his signature “dead cat” manoeuvre. Boris Johnson (who had previously employed Crosby as his campaign manager during the 2008 and 2012 London mayoral elections) had once described the strategy like this: “There is one thing that is absolutely certain about throwing a dead cat on the dining room table – and I don’t mean that people will be outraged, alarmed, disgusted. That is true, but irrelevant. The key point, says my Australian friend, is that everyone will shout, ‘Jeez, mate, there’s a dead cat on the table!’ In other words, they will be talking about the dead cat – the thing you want them to talk about – and they will not be talking about the issue that has been causing you so much grief.” (The Guardian, 20 January 2016)
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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I like the phrase because it describes the technique of misdirection so economically. Used by illusionists to divert the attention of their audience away from the part of the performance they want to conceal. All very clever but essentially a dishonest manoeuvre when used to interfere with the direction of legitimate debate. The 'Shock Doctrine' as explained by Naomi Klein is essentially the same technique and the classic example is the ploy the CIA used to destabilise the Chilean economy so they could depose Allende and replace him with Pinochet who they regarded as a more reliable head of state because he wasn't populist and left wing. Go back in history and look at the misery that caused!
I heard a report yesterday on R4 that politicians and bureaucrats in the EU are laughing at the confusion that is evident in the May government, particularly the faction that wants to punish the UK for destabilising the project. So, further evidence (as if we needed it) that politicians like Boris embrace the 'dead cat' as opposed to rational all-party debate, particularly when they have been tasked with managing the transition, is bad news. This is no way to run a railway!
A line of argument I am hearing more and more is that this is an unelected government with no agreed manifesto and as such is basically undemocratic. I've even heard it described as a 'Very British Coup'. There is more than a whiff of truth in this.
Later.... See THIS for even more trouble in the Labour leadership race. Did the man think that because he was a donor it gave him carte blanche to be a wrecker? The only hope for a good outcome from this lot is if Jeremy gets a good majority and uses it to root out the extremists of all descriptions. I don't know if he has it in him but if this sort of disloyalty and in-fighting is allowed to go on it will damage the party I support irreparably. Roll on whatever the dénouement is going to be, we need some stability. I'm not happy.....
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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Talking of donors...Owen Smith's `almost £70,000' support (which is most of his support) from Anthony Watson seems to be in the news. Watson's company is based in the Cayman Islands. But Smith says Corbyn `approved' Watson as a supporter. We are going around in circles.

The right-wing Jacob Rees-Mogg was on BH this morning. Guess what, asked if he would vote for Trump if he (Rees-Mogg) was an American he hedged around the question and tried to avoid giving a straight answer, but he definitely implied the answer was Yes. It was purely tribal - he would vote for Trump simply because Trump is the Republican, regardless that Trump is destroying that party.

As we would expect, the news media have blown up the Liam Fox `playing golf' comments into a storm. Business leaders are said to be distraught. If Britain's business leaders are seriously upset by Fox's comments then we really are in trouble and need a new set of business leaders. If they can't cope with that sort of stuff being thrown at them then they can't be much good at their job. The better leaders will just ignore it or have a laugh at the thought of a politician making such claims.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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Fox is safe now that Boris has strayed off piste by making a video for the pressure group pressing for early Brexit. (LINK). Downing Street says (yet again) that this is a private matter. That's three times this week! Boris is working with Gove again.... he'd better watch his back. I thought being Foreign Secretary was a full time job?
Chilling news that Hilary Clinton is unwell.... It will hearten Trump and perhaps damage her campaign.... I hope she gets better very quickly! (LINK)
I heard Mogg as well Tiz and like you thought he was very shifty. Classic case of right wing DNA trumping common sense.
As for Smith's funding.... Sooner or later the matter of party funding has to be addressed properly. Being a big donor to a political party is, too often, thinly veiled corruption and honour buying.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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The news this morning said that Hilary Clinton was being treated for pneumonia but is feeling a lot better. If her collapse had not been in public no one would have been any wiser.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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Hilary Clinton has suffered an infection, a physical problem. I think the Democrat supporters should be asking whether Donald Trump suffers from a mental problem - he certainly exhibits symptoms of mental disturbance!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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:laugh5:
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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The hysterical views about Hilary Clinton's physical condition are a symptom of the frenetic nature of US politics. Anyone who has ever been on a course of powerful antibiotics knows that the cure can be worse than the disease! Not surprising that a 68 year old woman was feeling a bit crook! Trump says he is going to issue an assessment of his physical condition.... With his money he can afford to find the right doctor!
I agree with Tiz, Trump is not the most stable man I have ever seen. Remember JFK's medical problems. FDR was a cripple but did his job. This is part of the election fight and the sooner we get back to politics the better.
Fascinating to watch the development of the grammar school row in the Tory Party, never mind the almost universal rejection of the principle by other parties, the Tories are split over it as well and many are asking about the direction and competence of the May administration. Like Cameron, she is going to get some hard knocks.
Cameron.... Now there's a thing. He is 'doing the right thing' he says by taking the Chiltern Hundreds (LINK). Or is he thinking that the sooner he gets out the less flak he is going to get as the effects of his disastrous time in office become evident. So many decisions put off and bad decisions made culminating in Cameron's Catastrophe'. History isn't going to be kind to him. (Or Blair!)
One thing springs to mind, could he by any chance be heading for the revolving door?
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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It looks as if Pendle could disappear under the new boundary change proposals....we would be in Colne & Clitheroe, a mainly rural constituency running almost to Preston.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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Back to schools. My girls chose to go to our local high school . It was not the best in rochdale by any means. It had a long history of poor results, behaviour etc. They did not want to go to Oulder Hill, the better school in the area. They did well, both have good degrees, Msc and one a PhD. Both have good jobs, are well balanced individuals . The head teacher changed when the schools were reorganised. The teacher brought in tighter discipline and tighter uniform regulations but more out of school activities, which by the way my girls did not attend. This school now has a waiting list, progress made by pupils is one of the best in Rochdale. Two years ago the old school ( old grammar school) was knocked down and a new school built on site.

My point, like Stanley's, it's the school ethos and teaching that matters. Many of my girls peers from swimming etc went to Bury grammar or Bacup and Rawtenstall grammar. They became educational snobs to my two. They may have got better GCSEs results but did not reach the academic heights of my two.

However on the side of grammar schools, I passed for one quite unexpectedly I feel. Maybe I am wrong. However it changed my life. I became more focused at school and became a high achiever. Maybe I would have done anyway had there been a good alternative to grammars at the time, but there wasn't. My school lost its grammar status when I was in the third year. We became a multi educational unit with 7 secondary modern school we had the same uniform with free flow of pupils between the schools . The fore runner of the comprehensive built 15 years later. No pupils came to my school until sixth form as we were the only one doing the o level curriculum. Several got moved to the secondary moderns. The name changed to the deanery school. When I applied to university we were told to put THE DEANERY GRAMMAR SCHOOL. Now that is elitist.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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So, Cameron is quitting, well there's a surprise. Not much point in hanging around after you have buggered the country! Off he will ride towards the sunset until he gets his title. That will just ensure that we still have to pay for him for attending the "other house". If times get really bad he will write a book or two with all the good bit's in, hang on a sec, better rephrase that, he will get someone else to write a load of bullshit about his tenure of the post, stupid people will buy it and Dave will be home and dry, literally.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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My three have all attended our local high school in Barlick and have/are done well academically.

Think Cameron's resignation highlights what a self centred pri person he is.

Am spluttering in my porridge this morning about the parliamentary boundary changes - Barnoldswick is chucked into a Lancashire leftover hotpot in a constituency called 'Clitheroe and Colne', but which actually stretches all the way to Preston and Bamber Bridge along the A59 (but doesn't include Gisburn)!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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Would Pendle no longer exist...is it just a parliamentary borough?
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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It didn't exist before the 1974 boundary changes. It's another redistribution of Tory voters to ensure continuation of the species.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by David Whipp »

The council boundaries won't be affected by the changes Wendy; it's the MP constituencies that are being reviewed.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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David Whipp wrote:Am spluttering in my porridge this morning about the parliamentary boundary changes - Barnoldswick is chucked into a Lancashire leftover hotpot in a constituency called 'Clitheroe and Colne', but which actually stretches all the way to Preston and Bamber Bridge along the A59 (but doesn't include Gisburn)!
A call for independence perhaps?
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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I agree with Sue about schools, a few good teachers and a well supported child can surmount what other parents see as 'bad schools'. I might be wrong but I think the example of their dad going back to school and chasing a degree was a spur to my kids..... I was the first in the extended family to go for it. Two daughters followed and like David's kids went to what we then called New Road School.
A bit of history for you.... Nelson didn't exist until the textile boom in the pate 19th century led to rapid growth. It was always part of the Clitheroe constituency but when the Clitheroe electors woke up to the fact they had a Labour MP because of the number of voters in 'Little Moscow' there was a rapid separation of Nelson from Clitheroe. The Boundary Commission is turning the clock back.
As for Cameron.... read THIS Guardian report of the damning criticism of Cameron by the Parliamentary Foreign Affairs Committee. According to them Cameron personally drove the policy through parliament against opposition and had no clear plan. When the 'initiative' fell to pieces he blamed the Libyans for not taking advantage of democracy and refused to give evidence when the committee investigated. Now who does this remind me of..... Some legacy!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

The antics of our leaders have been trumped by real life.
Having said that, read THIS account of what Herman van Rompuy believes about Brexit, What struck me is that he told Cameron the referendum was a mistake.
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