DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

[Tripps]

Is it similar in meaning to mither ?

[chinatyke]

I'm the opposite of David. I've always thought of oining as being derived from annoying and only came across mither when I lived in Tottington and I thought that meant pestering. Very similar meanings but used slightly differently.

[Stanley]

I've always understood oin as to mean getting on someone's nerves by mithering or pestering.
Hay making still on my mind. Foot cocks were 'dashed abroad' as soon as the dew went off them. If weather looked threatening the half dry hay was made into pikes which were larger than the cocks. These were a bugger because the only way to put them abroad was by hand with forks.
Last stage of drying was rolling the hay into 'windrows' so the breeze could blow through it. The horse drawn shaker picked the hay up when it was abroad and threw it in the air to 'loft' it. The old Lister side-rake gave way to the three point mounted Vicon Acrobat. The Massey Harris Dickie was a trailer mounted machine that turned swathes or rowed them up depending how it was set. The Bamford Wuffler did the same job as the shaker and could be set to make two fluffy rows or one thick windrow. The machinery manufacturers were very inventive when it came to names. The Acrobat got its name because it was hung on springs and if it hit a thick shop it leapt into the air over the top instead of overloading itself. Two or four wheeled carts were made to hold more by fitting 'raves' to each end. The last job was to drag a large rake with curved tines called a 'rover' up and down the hayfield to pick up the gleanings. Always a woman's job.

[David Whipp]

Stanley, last sentence illustrates importance of meaning of words!

I understand you are reporting historical fact; others may believe you to be expressing a misogynistic comment!

(Not oining you about this, you understand?)

[Tizer]

My dad still annoys people by saying "That's women's work". He applies it not just to cooking and cleaning the house but to anything he considers `below him' (e.g. sewing, nursing, looking after children).

I mentioned above about how often I had to correct scientists' writing when I was an editor. A few minutes after writing it I read a report from a British food company which included a claim that a product was good because it was packed with `neutraceuticals'. This is one of the words that I had to correct very often, possibly 50% of the occurrences. It refers to natural plant chemicals which have a nutritional benefit in the diet and is a fusion of the words `nutrient' and `pharmaceutical'. Hence the correct spelling is `nutraceutical' and not `neutraceutical'. It shocks me that technical people working in the food industry can't grasp the origin and meaning of the word.

[Stanley]

Simple statement of fact. The Rover was always pulled by women or sometimes bigger children. They had to be a certain height for the tines to work properly.



Kids reading Pam Ayres at Hey Farm in 1976. In the background there is a Rover hay rake.



An abandoned horse drawn hay rake seen on Folly Lane in 1982. It has been converted for tractor pulling.

[Stanley]

Just used 'scutter'. Where did that come from?

[PanBiker]

The hay rake in the field off Folly Lane is still there, fairly overgrown but still visible just over the wall.

[Cathy]

Just used the term 'I'll turf you off' (talking to my cat, haha) wonder where that comes from?

[Stanley]

That's an interesting one Cathy. None of the dictionaries seems to have an answer for the origin of 'turf' used as a verb. I wonder whether it comes from Irish and Scottish evictions, both areas where turves (peat) was used as fuel.

[Tizer]

When digging peat one uses the spade tool to throw each turf out of the trench to be stacked afterwards, so yes it sounds like the it might be the origin.

[Cathy]

Thanks, makes sense. Turf to me is new grass that is grown elsewhere and it comes in rolls that you just lay-out into a new place.

[Bodger]

https://www.google.ie/search?q=turf+cig ... CCIQ9QEwAQ

[Cathy]

When watching the Antique Masters show today they had a very old piece of equipment that the contestants had to identify. It turned out to be a holder for putting Rush into and then the Rush was burnt at both ends to provide light, this they said is where the saying 'burning the candle at both ends' comes from. When I looked into it further on the internet all they talk about is staying up late, partying too much and not getting enough sleep!!, which is what we have been taught to think it means. Strange how things change over time.

[Stanley]

New to me Cathy but it sounds feasible, rush-lights were so bad they needed two flames!

[Tizer]

Brewer's gives the phrase as "You can't burn the candle at both ends" so it must refer to ordinary candles...but a good try at an alternative origin, Cathy!

[Whyperion]

Brewer's gives the phrase as "You can't burn the candle at both ends" so it must refer to ordinary candles...but a good try at an alternative origin, Cathy!

I Suppose if you had a horizontal holder in the middle like the rush one you could, but it would be a bit messy.

Question: Whats the proper name for Liquid Washing Powder? (Washing Liquid is too confused with Washing-Up Liquid, Liquid Soap is generally squirted out of those press-down plungers that always leave a few ml in the bottom of the (often fancy) container, and Liqui-Tabs (TM?) are the liquid bundled up in a disolvable wrapper - except in my washing machines where it seems to form a gunge at the bottom of the door aperture gasket- I must get my machines levelled).

[Stanley]

Funny how words catch your eye (or ear in this case). I heard the word 'glee' used to describe the mood of the people who posted the beheading video. I realised that whilst glee is usually associated with enthusiasm for beneficial things it can also have a darker significance. When I looked it up in Webster I found there is a secondary meaning in NE England and Scotland, to squint as in eyes. (I qualify that because a squint is also a stone masons term for the chamfering of the corner of a building where it would otherwise be an obstruction.)
I've just heard Tweet of the Day, today it's the Golden Eagle. The lady described it as 'magisterial' I think she might have meant 'majestic'.

[Tizer]

Some time ago Tripps flagged up the increasing use of `existential' and he was right to warn us - it's become an epidemic and I still don't know what most of the media people mean when they use it now.

[Tripps]

Good to see someone is paying attention.

My latest annoying word is 'conversation' . Keep an ear out for it.

Further to 'need to' instead of 'should. A lady on Womans Hour said last week "I am not a 'should - er', in fact I avoid the word 'should' altogether". Suspicions confirmed. Don't be judgmental - pretend you're doing me a favour rather than telling me what to do.

[Stanley]

I hit this syndrome so often. I always try to avoid telling people what to do and 'need to' and 'should' are too close to commands for my liking. For instance, if you are recommending a book, do just that, say it is worth attention but don't instruct people to read it. In political spin words like 'conversation' and phrases like 'looking at this' are used to avoid precision and commitment. ( I heard the Minister of Defence saying that the government was 'scoping' the provision of arms to the Kurds, what the hell does that mean? These are deliberate evasions but there is also the lack of precision, clarity and truth introduced by bad editing and sloppy work. On the main BBC news last night the large graphic that accompanied the announcement of the Rotherham report said clearly that 14,000 had been abused, it should of course have been 1,400. This is simple laziness and incompetence.

[Stanley]

One has to admire the art form which is copy writing for advertisements. Consider this from the latest advertisement on TV for Walker's new range of 'Deli' products.
"Real ingredients for authentic taste". Sounds reasonable at first hearing and is obviously intended to persuade the public that the new range is stuffed full of the best ingredients. But have a closer look, of course the ingredients are 'real', if they weren't they would be imaginary and not present on the product. What exactly does 'authentic taste' mean? What are we comparing it with? In effect it means nothing but is intended to give the impression that they really are using exotic ingredients.
It reminds me of the old favourite, 'Guaranteed for life'. Question is the life of what? The user or the product? It sounds great but is actually meaningless if not qualified by a definition of what 'life' is. Definitely a candidate for the Cunning Wheeze department.

[Tizer]

Unfortunately a book called `Gwynne's Grammar' written by (what a surprise) N.M. Gwynne has become very popular, especially after being recommended by none other than Michael Gove. Gwynne and others like him are language fundamentalists and they demand that we obey their rules of grammar instead of accepting that language evolves and the object is good communication, not obeying so-called `rules' slavishly. Oliver Kamm in The Times is fighting a rearguard action and keeps digging out examples of what the fundamentalists would say was `bad grammar' from well-known and highly-regarded authors. The fundamentalists (or sticklers as Kamm calls them) are making it harder for those like us who appreciate good communication but want to see precision and accuracy - they are misleading writers into thinking rules are all that's needed, never mind the message.

If you read the blurb on this Amazon page about Gwynne's book you'll get an idea of what the man's about:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gwynnes-Grammar ... 291781344X

[Tripps]

"or sticklers as Kamm calls them"

There was a BBC correspondent called Angus Stickler who from google seems to have vanished from the scene following the Newsnight (false) revelations about Lord McAlpine.

I recall him saying that the name derived from the referee of a Cornish wrestling match, who would as a last resort use a stick to separate the participants.

Not a lot of people know that.

[Tizer]

Thanks for that, Micheal Caine Tripps!