ENERGY MATTERS

[PanBiker]

Good idea Tiz, isn't the fact that the North Sea is not very deep a large contributory factor in the coastal erosion? Could solve multiple problems at once. After all, the plethora of oil platforms out there are all stood on the sea bed and is it not what the Dutch did to reclaim vast areas of coastline? Same principal I think but keep the lagoon and use turbines rather than backfilling.

[Tizer]

Building the lagoon wall would be much more difficult than putting in oil platforms or wind turbines due to its size and the resistance to the tide and storms. But Dogger Bank would be a shallow spot...if you can keep the ships away!

EDIT: Another thought....why not build energy lagoons around the offshore wind farms that are already in place or proposed? They're already an obstacle to shipping and the sea floor in the area must be firm enough for foundations. It would also make maintenance of the turbines easier by keeping the water surface calmer. I assume the electricity generated could be taken ashore by the same cables as the turbine electricity or at least the same route could be used, and it could be distributed using the same infrastructure.

[PanBiker]

The difficulty would be there wherever they built it though. I would have thought shallower water would have been a benefit. If you look at the money that would be used just for coastal defence on the East coast it does look very attractive.

[Stanley]

Sounds good to me. Send this exchange to the interested parties....?

[PanBiker]

I had the same thought about the existing wind farms. You could introduce supplementary piles between the existing turbines and then create vertical tracks or rails on them to accept metal shutters between the piles. These could be dropped into place to create the lagoon. Heavy engineering yes but we are good at that when we set our mind to it. 70 years ago we built two complete artificial harbours in Scotland and towed them bit by bit to Normandy. All done without detection by the enemy. Let no one say it can't be done. Mentioned before but a good proportion of Holland is man made. If the ingenuity to terraform a country is there a bit of a lagoon should be no problem.

[Tizer]

It needs someone with knowledge of Twitter and Facebook to make the idea `go viral' on the Internet!

Another idea that has been ticking away in my brain is something that could benefit both energy and politics. There's a lot of trouble again over Iran with Israel getting hot under the collar because the West is talking about helping Iran with nuclear power. Surely we should drop that idea and instead advise Iran to stay away from nuclear with all its attendant problems of radioactive waste etc and offer to help them install solar power instead. Wikipedia states: "With about 300 clear sunny days a year and an average of 2,200 kilowatt-hour solar radiation per square meter, Iran has a great potential to tap solar energy." It already has a couple of solar power stations and of wind power stations plus many hydro and gas powered:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_po ... Iran#Solar
We should be helping them with all those non-nuclear power sources which Iran, as a country, is well suited for. It shouldn't need nuclear power. If Iran then still demands nuclear we'll know what they want it for and it won't be electricity and we'll be in a better position to counter, diplomatically, any more moves they make in that direction.

[Stanley]

This may be a partial answer.... Electricity from urine..... LINK

[Tizer]

Remember how The Financial Times reported that the energy industry was dreading the eclipse because it might affect solar electricity supply? Well guess what...today on its front page the FT reports that the eclipse "ended without disrupting power supplies". It also says: "There had been warnings of the prospect of disrupted supplies during the event, leading to an unusual amount of co-operation between Europe's grid operators".

[Pluggy]

http://oneguyfrombarlick.co.uk/viewtopi ... 150#p69114

Seems I said that a while back.

Completely overdoing the BS with the European Co-operation thing. It was never going to be anything other than a complete non event.

[Tizer]

I wonder if the FT got worked up about power shortage for the wrong reason by thinking it was lack of solar electricity generation that was a cause for concern when really the grid operators were only concerned about the `electric kettle' effect - millions of people switching on the kettle at the same time after the eclipse. Apparently it did result in a big surge in power consumption but not to the level of the 3 gigawatts after the 1999 eclipse. Incidentally, they say that the kettle effect from TV programmes ending is less obvious these days because there are so many TV channels now and viewers are spread over more programmes than in the old days.

[Pluggy]

The electric kettle effect would far outweigh the lack of solar generation. But a good telly program will do that a lot more often than a solar eclipse, even if there isn't much good telly these days.....

I don't contribute to the kettle problem, I have a 'superkettle' which keeps about 12 cups of water at boiling point. It gets filled once around once a day, and uses about 700 watts when its heating (vs around 3000 for a normal kettle). It does take about half an hour to get it back to temperature when its been refilled. Not a problem because we generally refill it after we make the brews and its ready by the time you want the next one. My wife poured scorn on it when I bought it, but after a week using it she swears by it. My dad wasn't particularly impressed when I bought him one, but he was swearing by his within the week. A fabulous lump of kit.....

http://www.superkettles.co.uk/

[Wendyf]

Interesting....

[Stanley]

I like that idea. It will go down well anywhere (like the US) where they are still on 110V and electric kettles have been a rarity.

[plaques]

I'm not convinced with the economics side of the argument. The energy used in warming the water will be the same whether its 750 watt or 3000 watt. Must people overfill their kettles and heat water up they do not use so in this respect there would be a saving. For convenience its probably a good idea. My fiends in Canada had this perpetual coffee pot. Heated 24/7. The worst tasting coffee I have ever had. YUK.

[Pluggy]

Stuff the economics, its the convenience....

[Big Kev]

I don't contribute to the kettle problem, I have a 'superkettle' which keeps about 12 cups of water at boiling point.

In the best tradition of Morecambe and Wise "Tea Ern'?" (urn)...

[Stanley]

I only boil what I need and there is value in freshly boiled water for tea....

[Stanley]

See THIS BBC report on the hectic dash to get solar power installed before the end of the month when the present subsidy ends. Industry sources say the rate will fall 80% from then onwards.Is this really the way to manage future energy supplies?

[Tizer]

It's only the subsidy for the industrial-scale solar projects - private ones are still subsidised. The Government is doing it because the panels have fallen dramatically in price. They'll soon become more efficient too and it'll probably get like the computer industry in the 1990s, the manufacturers improving them rapidly and you find you're panels are now outdated and you're being pressured to `trade up'.

[Stanley]

I watched the 'celebration' of the fact that they have 'hoovered' the sludge out of one of the used rod holding tanks and successfully transferred it to a stainless tank. Two things struck me, it's still only a temporary solution and the time scale for complete rehabilitation is still 120 years, if a deep geological storage site can be found..... remember when it was suggested that atomic electricity would be too cheap to be metered?

[Stanley]

Bad switch in leccy supply at 05:15 this morning, tiny drop out but didn't affect anything that was running.

[Tizer]

I'm glad to see the Government is paying attention to the potential of water source heating...
`Water "could warm a million homes in England"'
25 March 2015, BBC
A million properties across England could in future be heated by water from rivers, canals and the sea, the government says. The Department for Energy calculates this is the potential of a technology known as the water source heat pump. This relies on a heat exchanger, which uses a system akin to refrigeration to amplify warmth from pipes in the sea. If the energy from the process comes from renewables, properties can be warmed with near-zero carbon emissions. The government’s water source heat map identifies more than six gigawatts of potential low-carbon heat....
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32054802

[Stanley]

During my researches into water sites in the Lake district I was often struck by the possible savings from this technology powered by the water flow itself. Seems to me to be win-win. In many cases the essential infrastructure was already in place, disused only because of the old water use regulations which charged for the water used. A new Water Resources act eliminated that but it was too late for many sites.

[Tizer]

Manchester leads in technology yet again!
Financial Times, March 27, 2015
`Lightbulb moment as first mass-market graphene product goes live'
"The first mass market product made with the `miracle material' graphene is about to go on sale: a lightbulb. The invention is a dimmable LED lightbulb that can cut energy costs by at least 10 per cent and last for several years. Its developers at Manchester University say it is within months of going on sale. The bulb copies the classic design of the inventor Thomas Edison, but its filament has a coating of graphene, an atom-thick layer of carbon that is stronger than steel and conducts heat and electricity efficiently. Current dimmable LED bulbs cost £15 or more, but the price of the new bulb will be lower. Its maker, Graphene Lighting, is a spin-off company from Manchester University and an unnamed commercial partner."

This shows just how fast energy technology is changing. The one downside is that people will tend to hold back from buying becasue they know that an even better version may be just around the corner! (A bit like deflation giving us cheaper goods but people don't buy because they might be cheaper tomorrow.)

[Pluggy]

Re heat pumps :

For most applications, the cost of electricity to run the heat pump is no saving over the cost of gas (or oil nowadays) to heat just by burning the fuel. The extra complication of a refrigeration system and systems to stop the water freezing if things aren't all there makes it a non starter. The rampant greenies may adopt it, but it needs to make economic sense for every one else.