DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

[Tripps]

The wrong version of some phrases is currently used more often than the correct one, and has in some cases displaced it. I am thinking here of 'begs the question' which has a precise meaning in the field of logical fallacies, but has now changed almost exclusively to mean 'invites a follow up question.

Similarly - 'Cut you coat according to your cloth' is rarely seen now, but 'cut your cloth' often appears.

I note the judge in the Garry Glitter trial today has told the jury to 'grasp the nettle' .I wonder if he has considered that in Central London today quite a few of the jurors might not know what a nettle is, or why it needs to be grasped.

Chapped seems to be common, and middle English - unless you're playing dominoes with a Scot who will say ' I'm chapping (knocking) when he/she can't go.

[Stanley]

I have a vague memory of 'chaps' referring to cheeks. Sometimes 'chops' as well....

[LizG]

One that really annoys me is "the proof is in the pudding". No it's not!!!

In our house 'chaps' refers to leather trousers without a seat, worn over jodhpurs.

I bought myself a badge saying "I am silently correcting your grammar". My kids tell me that is wrong, I am very loud.

[Stanley]

No it isn't Liz, we are the silent guardians of the language!

[Stanley]

'Slathered' for slopping oil or grease over metal to protect it. Is this a word I've made up or is it in common use? When I was a lad I used to call weight scales 'nebbins'. Don't know where that came from!

[Tizer]

I wondered whether the word `dumbfounded' was something to do with a bell foundry...relating to a bell that was made (founded) without an incorrect sound and hence dumb. But the dictionary says it comes from `dumb' + `(con)found'.

[Stanley]

'Dumbgasted'......

[Tripps]

I have a vague memory of 'chaps' referring to cheeks. Sometimes 'chops' as well....

From a Scottish newspaper -

"First Minister and SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon has issued a rallying cry to party members, urging them to "chap every door" in the run up to May's election."

[Stanley]

Does that mean 'knock on' ?

[Tizer]

The BBC newsreader this morning referred to "reducing the number of unavoidable deaths in NHS hospitals" but had changed it to "avoidable deaths" in later news.

[Stanley]

'Wamble' for wobble. More in the South I think?

[Thomo]

My Great Grandfather, John Walsh was one of the "Blackburn Poets", some of his work was in the local dialect, here is one written about 1865:-

[Tripps]

Lots of dialect poets including John Walsh, covered here on Gerald Massey's website

John Walsh, and other dialect poets

[Thomo]

Thanks for that Tripps. Even in a relatively small area different dialect words may have the same meaning. Around where we are "Wah, Woh, Wor, Wi and Eawr" was used to replace the word "Our" there are also classic examples of nearly all being used in a single sentence, but with a different meaning sic: "What are we having for our tea" in Blackburn would be "Wod Wi hevin fur Eawr tea", "Wod" replacing "What", In Settle, it would be "Woh Wi evin fo Wi tea".

[Stanley]

The other day we had a question about the origin of the name Rainhall. When I went for a furtle I found that the origin was probably the name 'Regna'. I was struck by the similarity with 'reign' and went digging but didn't get a conclusion. I suspect the forename 'Regna' might either be connected with authority or chosen because it had that connotation. A bit like the use of 'Earl' as a forename....

[Stanley]

A word I use often is 'shutter' to describe a collapse of a structure. It 'shutters down'. Is this just me or is it a common usage?

[Tizer]

Never heard it used that way - usually `shutdown' instead.

[Thomo]

I believe that Stanley is correct here, and that "shuttered down" is more common than he thinks. When Coates Estate was being built, there were two main types of construction, Nicholson's were building with brick, and Wimpey, concrete. As a paper boy the last part of my round took me down St. Mary's Avenue twice a day, the houses on my right were brick, and occupied, over the road the concrete shells were going up rapidly, erect the shuttering, fill with concrete and 24 hours later, remove shuttering. I was passing the most recent of these one morning, just as the last piece of shuttering was removed, as I watched, the whole semi collapsed, concrete not set or cured, this one was "shuttered in all respects".

[Tripps]

I heard a guy on Gardeners Question Time this afternoon say "I think that's and old spouses' tale'. That really is 24 carat political correctness.

From wikipedia - no mention of husbands, or spouses, or partners even.

Old wives' tales

The concept of old wives' tales has existed for centuries. In 1611, the King James Bible was published with the following translation of the Apostle Paul writing to his young protégé Timothy, "But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself [rather] unto godliness" (I Timothy 4:7 KJV[1]).

[Bodger]

Anybody know sheep counting ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yan_tan_tethera

[PanBiker]

My dad could, taught by his father who was born into the rural community up in Dent. He came down to Barlick when there was more opportunity for the family in the town rather than on the farm. He was 50 when he migrated the family down here but was a proper dalesman and would often go back up on the "oss" at weekends to keep in touch with his mates.

[Stanley]

Nice. I've heard it used but don't understand it.....

[Cathy]

Woebegone - looking or feeling very sad.
Origin - Middle English wo begon, from wo, noun & began, past participle of begon to go about, beset from Old English begon, from be & gan to go.
First known use 14th century.

Don't use it myself but I read it in a book today, set in Ireland.

[Stanley]

Garrison Keeler used it too. See 'Lake Woebegone'.

[Cathy]

I remember woe betide from my childhood.
It was used when someone was being told off, not me ofcourse...