DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

[Stanley]

It's a lovely archaism now Cathy. We should use it whenever possible!

[Stanley]

I am in good nick this morning. Where did that one come from? There is a saying 'keeping the band in the nick' used now to denote getting on with someone. I think it may have originated from the wheel spinners keeping the driving band in the groove on the wheel, the 'nick'. That could be where 'in good nick' comes from, everything going well.....

[Cathy]

Not on your Nellie.
Oxford Dictionary - origin 1930's, meaning certainly not! Originally as 'not on your Nelly Duff', rhyming slang for puff (i.e. breath of life) and modelled on the phrase not on your life.

[Tripps]

But who was Nelly Duff?
Any relation to Plum Duff? Any connection with 'Up the Duff'?

Without googling - I'd guess a Victorian music hall performer?

[Stanley]

Perhaps best not to delve to deeply.... Remember our pursuit of Sweet Fanny Adams?
Delve.... to dig, hence delph for a quarry.....

[Cathy]

Came across the word tawse, it's the plural of taw, a Scottish word to describe a leather strap having one end cut into thongs, and was formerly used as an 'instrument of punishment' by a school teacher... Ouch!

Does anyone remember what the punishments were when they were at school?

[Thomo]

I certainly do. Punishments came at several levels and under two main headings one of which was "corporal". The others ranged from a pupil having to stand in a corner facing the walls to being ridiculed in front of the entire school, much of this was later replaced by detention. "Caning" also came with options available to the authorities concerned, private, or public, on the hands or the backside. On the hands, the cane employed would be thinner and more flexible, for the backside it was thicker. If either of these punishments were carried out in public, the recipients best option was to bite the lip and not cry as this could lead to being ridiculed by classmates, often worse than the punishment itself. Corporal punishment in schools was banned many years ago, but there are still places where it is used, not so much as a form of punishment, but as "a right of passage" or tradition, this is something that I have undergone. In my case it came at the end of basic training in the Royal Navy, I had been made "class leader" at the beginning of basic training, due to experience and seniority, I was responsible for 29 other trainees, to oversee their progress, welfare and ability, this can lead to being at times unpopular. At the end of basic training, and before departing to the next stage at another establishment, it was traditional for the class leader to be given a hearty whack on the backside with an oar, whilst bent over the end of the snooker table in the recreation area, by each member of his class. At the age of 32, and the oldest man to join the Navy since WW2, married and with two children, my class decided that I could forego this punishment if I so wished, I told them to go ahead with it and took my 29 strokes without a murmur. Afterwards, and whilst we were all still assembled, I gave them the good news, we were all going together for part two training at HMS Sultan, and again I would be their class leader, the effect was amazing, in particular on the ones who had hit the hardest!

[Stanley]

All of my schools relied on the cane Cathy. Mrs Ackroyd's cane in 1940 when I was four years old was particularly frightening as because of the war new ones were unobtainable. Hers was frayed at the end and bound with wire to hold it together....

[Stanley]

'Wuthered' as in Wuthering Heights. Corruption of 'wither'?

[Stanley]

It used to be common to hear someone who was being berated by another person say "Are you talking to me or chewing a brick?". How common was this?

[Cathy]

It comes from the East End of London - hard men talking tough guy talk and probably working for the London Brick Company. I think it has come to mean someone mumbling.

[Stanley]

You could well be right Cathy and yes, that was the meaning I have always given it....

[Tizer]

In a recent Radio 4 `Thought for the Day' the Chief Rabbi said that the word `enquire' was derived from the Greek (or was it Latin) word for `midwife', implying that enquiry gives birth to new information etc. I can't find anything to support this claim. Does anyone know if it's true?

[Thomo]

More recently from French "Enquerre" derived from Latin "Inquirere" originally Latin "Quaere" meaning "Seek"

[Tripps]

He's about there if he had stopped at midwife.'

mid•wife
1. a person who assists women in childbirth.
2. a person or thing that assists in producing something new.

I can't see any connection with enquire or inquire.

This enquire is an elegant, and amazingly comprehensive website which covers that word very well.

[Stanley]

At one time the use of the verb 'to rook' meant to cheat someone. I haven't heard it for a long time and wonder whether it was local or more widespread.

[Cathy]

I spoke to a Midwife today about the following queery

In a recent Radio 4 `Thought for the Day' the Chief Rabbi said that the word `enquire' was derived from the Greek (or was it Latin) word for `midwife', implying that enquiry gives birth to new information etc. I can't find anything to support this claim. Does anyone know if it's true?

She said that Midwifery is birthing (new, bringing forth, coming into existence) so in this instance enquiring is just giving birth to new information. Hope that helps.

[Tripps]

Rook - yes I think I've heard it, but not recently.

I came across the fact last week, that the word 'sanction' had two meanings, which were virtually exact opposites. sanction. I now know that it is an 'auto-antonym'.

See here Auto-antonymfor more detail than you need to know.

From the joke thread I would suggest that infrequently is such a word - well almost.

[Stanley]

Interesting comment David and yes, I knew it had two meanings. We have a complicated language!
Looked it up in Webster and the root is thought to be the Latin 'sancire' which is roughly to enforce by law which could explain the two opposing uses as they both involve the law.

[Tizer]

We asked a local charity to collect some bri-a-brac...and then I wondered where that word came from. Collins says it comes from the French word `bric' meaning piece. (Nothing about brac though.)

Then I got puzzled by pyjamas, or pajamas as they are known in the US. Collins says it comes from `pay' (foot) and jamah (garment).

[Tripps]

"Looked it up in Webster "

I can't see that word without thinking of Bob Hope and Bing Crosby singing
'Like Websters dictionary we're Morocco bound'

[Stanley]

That's the sort of comment I would make David as the same often occurs to me! A product of our age.... Lyrics often run in my mind, they were so packed with meaning in those days. 'She lived on just coconuts and fish from the sea....' They must have been good songs because they stuck in the mind. Webster is the US equivalent of the OED and very respected. I have one because Barnes and Noble ran a promotion while I was visiting America, a full size unabridged Webster printed on decent paper and hard bound for $10, couldn't walk past it! Baggage allowances were more flexible in those days!

[Tripps]

"'She lived on just coconuts and fish from the sea...."
She wears red feathers and a hula hula skirt. . . .
Oldham Gaumont childrens' Saturday morning film show

[Bodger]

Guy Mitchell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zqzvc7iyDg

[Tizer]

On a different note...Flanders & Swann
`The Ostrich'
Peek-a-Boo, I can't see you,
Everything must be grand.
Boo-ka-Pee, they can't see me,
As long as I've got me head in the sand.
Peek-a-Boo, it may be true,
There's something in what you've said,
But we've got enough troubles in everyday life,
I just bury me head.

The full lyrics here: http://www.nyanko.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ ... trich.html