POLITICS CORNER

[Stanley]

You have touched on one of my pet hates. More than one person speaking at once which of course means you do not hear what either is saying. You get the same syndrome when an interviewer interrupts the respondent. Very common on R4 these days.
Once when I was doing a course at Manchester Business School I found myself one evening having a quiet drink with Stafford Beer, the man who wrote ‘Brain of the Firm’ amongst other books. He was a wonderful bloke, an academic, guru, poet, socialist and one of the worlds leading authorities on cybernetics. At about three in the morning I asked him if he could encapsulate all he knew about communication in one aphorism and he said yes! I think I realised how drunk he was at that point but this is what he said; “It isn’t what is communicated, or how it’s communicated or how it’s received, it is what is understood.”
Based on that definition talking over another person is bad communication.

THIS BBC report illustrates what I think is a common attitude at the moment.
Former Newcastle United owner Sir John Hall has announced he is endorsing the Reform party in the general election. The long-time Conservative donor was speaking at a rally in Houghton-le-Spring near Sunderland, led by Reform leader Nigel Farage. Sir John told the Local Democracy Reporting Service (LDRS), external he was "white and proud of it" and was backing the party because he did not want to see his country's culture "destroyed". The Conservative Party has declined to comment. Labour, the Liberal Democrats and the Green Party have been approached for a response. Mr Farage wrote on X, formerly known as Twitter: "It says a lot when a man like Sir John Hall, after decades of public support for the Conservative Party, is now supporting Reform UK. "We are delighted to have him."
Leaving aside the racism embedded in this report, I suspect that Mr Hall's main motive in backing Reform is to punish the Tories. Many Tories will do this as it's more palatable than voting Labour.
This is going to be a very strange election with some surprising results, none of them good for the Tories or national politics. This is a measure of what a lousy job the politicians of all hues have done over the last thirty years.......

[PanBiker]

Some of the reform volunteer canvassers have been outed for suggesting that immigrants in boats should be used as target practice. A slap on the wrist condemnation for this is not sending the right message in my book.

[PanBiker]

A "higher up" in the Labour Party should be joining the canvass today in Barlick.

[PanBiker]

I have just been doing a bit of telephone banking to ask for voting intention. Information gathering only, can't try to persuade. Not been shouted at yet which is bonus as I am using headphones and operating via my browser, costs nothing so why not. I have rung about 12 folk so far and spoken to 4, rest were no answer, voice mail (not allowed to leave a message) or call barred. I hope the door knockers are finding more folk in.

[PanBiker]

It was Hilary Benn in town with the canvass today.

[Tripps]

It was Hilary Benn in town with the canvass today.

Could have done worse - he's verging on being 'one of the good guys' in my book.

No mention in his Wikipedia that his elder brother Stephen has re ignited the title and there is now once again a Viscount Stansgate. Comparing their photos -the H o L canteen seems to be winning.

The media reaction to the Trump Biden contest is hilarious. Deep seated bias is floating to the surface from left wing presenters, who are unable to accept the reality of the situation.
"He has a cold, he's always been a bit long winded, He has had a life long stammer" . . . .

It appears the Americans don't have 'men in grey suits', and the only person who can initiate withdrawal is Biden himself.

[Stanley]

The Biden affair...... A disaster, not least because it allowed Trump to get away with behaviour that was just as worrying, compulsive lying, personal attacks and alarmism about migrants. Have a look at the cartoon I found this morning.......
As for coverage of the election in UK news..... I'm sorry but I find it all very boring. The question at the back of my mind is "What will Labour do with their majority?" 1997 was a golden opportunity to right a lot of wrongs and shape Britain for a century but what actually happened? Blairism, that's what. Not easily distinguished from conservatism. I can see the same thing happening again, Starmer is Blair mark II.
Mind you, there will be a certain vicarious pleasure in watching the Tories crash in flames........ 15 years ago I forecast it but doubted if I would see it happen. I only have to last another week now.....

[Stanley]

See THIS BBC report.
Leading members of the Labour Party in Islington North, the seat represented by Jeremy Corbyn since 1983, have resigned or announced they are willing to be expelled to campaign for him. Former Labour leader Mr Corbyn is standing as an independent after the party whip was suspended from him in 2020 - and was never restored - when he suggested the scale of antisemitism in the party was ‘dramatically overstated’ by opponents. Labour declined to comment but said its rules were clear. According to these, any member who supports a non-Labour candidate will be expelled if they haven’t already resigned. The letter, addressed to "voters of Islington North" and signed by dozens of people, tells local Labour members were "denied the right to choose our own candidate" for the general election. It adds the group had not taken its decision lightly, but had to "take a stand in the name of democracy and justice". Signatories include chair Alison McGarry and two vice chairs who tendered their resignations in the past week, as well as an assistant secretary who expected to be expelled. The letter was also signed by the constituency secretary who resigned when Jeremy Corbyn announced he’d stand as an independent, and by office bearers in local branches.
Whatever your views on Jeremy Corbyn or the Starmer campaign to turn Labour into 'Tory Light', you have to be impressed by the degree of loyalty and conviction shown by these people. Against all the odds they still believe in what Jeremy stands for and despite my disagreement with some elements of his belief structure I basically like the man also. I think mainly because he is still identifiable as a social democrat, a rare distinction in many leading members of the Party these days.
Never forget the vicious campaign of demonisation of Corbyn by the Right-wing Tory press that was relentless when he was leader. He really frightened the Tories because he told the truth as he saw it. Not a very important qualification as an MP these days.
Later at 05:00. Breaking news that the Times is backing 'the centre-left Labour Party' in the General Election......

[PanBiker]

The media reaction to the Trump Biden contest is hilarious. Deep seated bias is floating to the surface from left wing presenters, who are unable to accept the reality of the situation.
"He has a cold, he's always been a bit long winded, He has had a life long stammer" . . . .

The Yanks need to elect a 40 something year old President, they would have to live a lot longer with their decisions!

Mind you, the last time that happened they shot the bloke.

[Tripps]

The Labour manifesto is reported as commiting to recognising Palestine. Well - up to a point Lord Copper. They haven't even won the election yet and a U turn has been started already. Weasel words abound.

Trigger warning -this link is not from the BBC.U turn approaching

I read that this isn't a Policy election, it's a Punishment election. I agree.

Ian has persuaded me not to abstain - though that's the same as his 'none of the above' box as I see it - so I will probably vote for the one party which agrees with me, that Net Zero is total nonsense, and will not pursue it.

Four days is a long time in politics though. .

[Stanley]

You got me there David, I had to go and search for the meaning of the reference to Lord Copper.
"I read that this isn't a Policy election, it's a Punishment election."
I think that's right as well. Starmer can't believe his luck and will not do anything that could upset anyone apart from his own Party Members..... Mind you, remember who shifted the American Embassy back into Jerusalem, it's almost certain Trump will be POTUS and it may be all change on American/Israeli policies.
I don't understand why but a little voice at the back of my head keeps whispering that all could change in the US contest before November..... It may not be as cut and Died as it looks now.

THIS could be the most far reaching political matter that will be decided this week in so far as its effect on the UK.
France’s far right is in pole position after the first round of parliamentary elections that confirmed their dominance in French politics and brought them to the gates of power. Supporters of Marine Le Pen’s anti-immigration National Rally (RN) cheered as she said the president’s “Macronist bloc has been all but wiped out”. RN was on course to win 33.2% of the vote, with a left-wing alliance behind on 28.1%, and the Macron alliance behind on 21%. “I aim to be prime minister for all the French people, if the French give us their votes,” said 28-year-old RN party leader Jordan Bardella. Never before has the far right won the first round of a French parliamentary election. The simple fact that it has become possible is historic, says veteran commentator Alain Duhamel.
Ian says that America needs a 40 year old President and I think he's right but the prospect of France having a 28 year old Far Right leader worries me. I can remember all to well what happened the last time Europe went so far to the Right.

As if to reinforce the perception that this election is being decided on froth and not solid political policies THIS dominates this morning's political reporting.....
A Reform UK election candidate has disowned the party and is instead backing the local Conservative candidate. Liam Booth-Isherwood, who is standing in Erewash, said there was a “significant moral issue” in parts of the party following what he called “reports of widespread racism and sexism”. He added that the failure of the party’s leadership to address the issue means he no longer wants to be associated with it. Reform UK’s chairman Richard Tice claimed Reform candidates were being offered jobs and inducements “to persuade them to talk badly of Reform, stand down and then endorse the Tory candidate". He said there were “dark forces at play by desperate Tories”.
This is not serious politics as I understand it.

[Tripps]

This amused me. . . .

Stay Home.jpg

[Whyperion]

. The question at the back of my mind is "What will Labour do with their majority?"

There has been Starmers 100 day vision (I dont think I can bear to look at it) Today reported from him that Day 1 is rip up planning restrictions. This really is going to be handing EVERY bit of land and buildings to developers , with only profit in mind, no quality of accommodation for families and the loss of the English Suburbs and the rural lands. Its crazy and wrong, sorry we may need new homes (For british?!) people but consideration of what, how and where is very important otherwise it is Grenfell/Cladding and RACC all in one hit. I dont trust Labour and I am disappointed that where good alternative left wing candidates are standing ( IDS's consituancy in Chingford being one - Lab Polling 28percent , ExLab whip etc pulled lady polling 14percent, Tory polling 38percent ) , similar percentage variations in Corbyn (roughly 2:1 voting lab compared to voting Corbyn). Opportunity Missed , communications people only hearing what they want to hear, and not what is being said (and sometimes unsaid). Labour pulled Clacton candidate for campaigning in Clacton - either Starmer WANTS Farage to win ,or is hoping for the Lab to tactically vote Tory to keep Farage out. There are times when you miss what Plaques would have had to say over all of this.

[Whyperion]

Ian has persuaded me not to abstain - though that's the same as his 'none of the above' box as I see it - so I will probably vote for the one party which agrees with me, that Net Zero is total nonsense, and will not pursue it

I am not convinced on that , there is a lot about becoming , in a sensible way "carbon (CO2)neutral" (and not just by outsourcing pollution to China / India and Mexico). Difficult in the UK, our little terraced house boxes wont work Heat Exchanger systems effectively , and there is not much more space in semi-detached , but maybe in industrial units and mansion blocks it is more possible along with a reasonable growing renewables (and I dont mean soya bio-mass) sector. That said there is a role in energy for some time for careful use of oil and gas - but one day- sooner rather than later it will run out anyway, date targets have to be meaningful - but we can start to build our new houses ready for the closer working cities less dependent on the private car and efficiently heated (and cooled). I am generally going green , to be honest I have given up caring if a Tory beats a Labour candidate (and I hate what the Tories have done - and what they might think of doing - The single Tory (and reform) underlying mantra has always been "keep more of your income to spend on what you want"- ie reduce direct taxation - this comes at the expense of indirect (VAT, Council Tax and similar) taxes OR charges (Road Parking, Prescription Charges, de facto private route to healthcare.

[Whyperion]

Having said I didnt care if a Tory won a seat, maybe I do, it would be nice to have the Lib Dems as the official opposition.


Perhaps , in a bit of "what I did the the school holidays" writing, I feel every tory candidate successful or otherwise should be made to write an essay. "Why I am a Conservative" or should that be "Why am I a Conservative"?

[Stanley]

Witty but very sensible advice also David.
As is my wont I scanned the overnight political news and found nothing to excite me in this country, possibly the most significant news is the dreadful decision of the US Supreme Court that gives Trump immunity for official acts. That is bad news, not only for the US but for the world. At home we have Sunak whistling in the wind and Cleverly warning that Labour will 'distort' politics. Starmer's only worry is that Labour voters will stay at home thinking their vote isn't needed. As for the LibDems they have decided the most meaningful thing they can do is bungee jump. Did nobody think about another image of a politician hanging in mid-air in a harness? One wonders about the world these people imagine they inhabit.....
I shall vote Labour on Thursday and look forward to hearing the results which I believe will be historic but I am sorry to say I have no confidence in the outcome. I hope I am wrong but somehow I doubt it.
Sorry to be so down-beat but I have too firm a grasp of reality to be anything else.

[PanBiker]

Starmer's only worry is that Labour voters will stay at home thinking their vote isn't needed.

I will be changing my telephone targets to Barlick and Earby Electors. Our patch for the Campaign Centre on Thursday.

[Tripps]

Where do you get the target telephone numbers from? Are they all your supporters who have provided them?

[PanBiker]

The electoral register and the BT phone book. Other software determines the targets from canvas and historical polling information depending on the time line of the campaign which is a variable of course. That is fed into the telephoning system we use which automatically selects the next elector to talk to. I can select the area that I ring from the whole local Constituency or any other in the country if I want and down to ward level but not polling district.

Telephone banking is information gathering and can not be used to persuade voting intention. You have to do that on the doorstep. Cant leave messages on answer phones or equivalent systems etc.

There is a You Tube video going round today which has captured Theresa May leaving a message on a video door bell system which is also not allowed when canvassing. Naughty naughty.

[Tripps]

I hadn't given this much thought, but I would regard an unasked for phone call as a nuisance. A leaflet, which I can read at my convenience (or not) is different, and quite acceptable.

The Information Commission Office says -

"Phone calls
This method may be used to contact you unless the organisation has grounds for believing you would not want it to contact you, such as if you have registered with the Telephone Preference Service (TPS)."



So quite easy to avoid then.

[PanBiker]

Such registrations plus any other reasons for non contact previously logged are taken into consideration. Most folk are quite amenable when you talk to them, (there are exceptions of course). Probably 30 seconds is about the time it takes to log voting intention and the time they intend to vote. Short and sweet. The questions are helpful to both parties.

If they have a postal ballot and have returned it they will not get knocked on polling day. Similarly if they say they usually vote in the morning and that has been noted by telling operations at the polling station they wont get knocked either along with everyone else that gives their number to the teller on the door. The software used sorts out all the ones who haven't voted who said they would and prioritised them for contact on the day to encourage them to do so.

I talked to an elector today who thought they couldn't vote because they have lost their card! I told them that rocking up with valid photo ID and their name and address was all that was required, that turned a potential non voter into someone who will.

[Tripps]

I'm often almost rude to "tellers" almg the lines of -

"Who are you - and please don't interrupt me when I am voting, and what has any of this to do with you"?

I have mentioned before that your vote is traceable due to the number on the back of the slip which corresponds to the number on the master sheet. I was told (by Nolic) as I recall( not be worried, as all votes were later destroyed.

I remain concerned.

[PanBiker]

The point of giving your number to the teller is to register the fact that you have voted. It will ensure you don't get multiple knocks on your door later in the day to encourage you to vote. It's for your benefit. It does not give away your intention or who you have voted for just the fact that you have been.

You surely don't subscribe to the loony conspiracy brigade that say that the reason that they provide pencils is so that your vote can be changed?

The actual reason is that it is not a normal pencil, it is almost an indelible type and very difficult to erase or alter in any way. You can take your own pen of course if you are still concerned, although it will be a greater security risk than using what is provided.

The only question you need to ask is when is there opportunity to alter ballots? You pop it into a sealed box which is then transported directly to the counting venue and only then is it opened by breaking the security seals. Of course there could be an army of extremely small people who are used to actually sit in the ballot boxes to change all the ballots to what is required by who knows! I have never seen one tipped out onto the table along with the ballots at the count though so they must be invisible as well as vertically challenged.

[PanBiker]

I should add that the Electoral Commission issues guidelines for what tellers can and can't do. The general gist from our party is to be courteous and smile whilst sticking to the rules.

Wait while we eventually get compulsory voting in that will p.... a few off no doubt. Voting should be regarded as a duty not a chore. Ask Cathy.

[Tripps]

It will ensure you don't get multiple knocks on your door later in the day to encourage you to vote. It's for your benefit.

If they knocked on my door it would be memorable. I'm fairly sure I'm on the Jehovah's Witnesses 'do not disturb ' list. They only ever visited me once,

Once again - it is not their business as to whether I have voted or not. I remain concerned that my vote is not secret and anonymous, and can easiy be traced back to me, by the method I have described. The fact that it probably isn't traced, is a matter of ethics and trust. Both are in increasingly short supply.

You'd be good at politics - as shown in your long script about the use of pencils and altering votes. It is part of politicians' training to answer the question they choose, rather than the one they've been asked.

I never mentioned pencils or vote alteration.

I'll ignore the nonsense about small people hidden in the ballot box. If you want real evidence about electoral malpractice, ask David Whipp, who publicly said the law had been broken in the recent May Council byelection. Postal voting is easy to manipulate by those who wish to do so. More difficult by 'in person; voting. It was not by accident that Pendle was chosen as an area to test 'voter identification'.

My opinion is that the postal ballot needs to be far more restricted than it is presently.

If any of the above leads you to think I'n a 'nasty piece of work' - relax - I'm not.