ENERGY MATTERS

[Tizer]

The problem is finding `economically exploitable ore deposits'. There is plenty out there but it's usually too widely dispersed to be economically exploitable. We can look at a map of the world and see many locations marked for `rare earth ore deposits' but then we have to remember that you can't get all the rare earths from one deposit, this deposit will be rich in some rare earths, that one rich in others. We are heading for a shortage of the economically exploitable sources.

[Stanley]

A senior chemist from a big plant at Whitehaven once told me that the richest source of Germanium was in the flue dust from coal-fired boilers.... Can you remember the big ash settlement ponds that the major coal burning power stations used? Could be an opportunity there.....

[Stanley]

Cold enough to trigger the CH at low level even though the stove is lit.... Winter is a'comin in.....

[Tizer]

There's probably more of some of the elements in roadside dust than in mine ores!

[Stanley]

Almost certainly correct Tiz. Surely someone is looking at this? Or do they shy away from getting their hands dirty......

[Tizer]

Surveys have been done and the results published, so it's up for grabs. Probably too much H&S risk in collecting road dust!

[Stanley]

It's done every day by automated gutter sweeping machines....
Stove is doing a good job keeping the house warm and inhibiting the CH. I run it at about 300C. Calfire make a good and reliable magnetic thermometer that measures the surface temperature of the stove, a useful bit of kit.

[Tripps]

I read my meters - gas and electric, on the last day of each month. All entered to a spread sheet. (Mild OCD again) - just a check to see if consumption and cost are reasonable. Yesterday, the electric was nearly double the usual reading for the month. I activated the monitoring gadget, and checked out all the new things since the last reading -electric blanket, and electric throw. All seemed normal and reasonable.
It seems that something comes on every half hour which whacks the power up by 2 kW, for about five minutes. Could this be why, or has it always done that? Anyway by much switching off, and testing I think it is coming from the gas boiler system. I can't imagine this uses 2 kW when not active. It only seems to come up in the daytime - nil in the evening, last night and same tonight. I'm puzzled. Luckily I have a plumber / heating engineer coming tomorrow on another matter - I shall pick his brains.

[PanBiker]

2kW is a lot for a random load as you describe, normally in that range, kettles, toasters, oven, fires. The gas boiler will only be the pump which would not be in that bracket, bit of a puzzle that one Tripps. Please let us know if you solve what is drawing the excess power.

[Stanley]

My new smart meters and monitor tell me that between midnight and 6AM in the morning the system uses over 50p of energy (no gas of course, just leccy) this puzzles me because if I don't go in the shed and use machinery that's about the same as I use in the following 10 hours. A bit of a puzzle. Cats switching the automatic security light in the back yard? I don't think it can be because it is only a 150watt bulb and has a very short dwell time.
[The Borrowers having a bath?]

[plaques]

No idea how smart meters work. Do they record consumption only or do they add the standing charge to give an overall cost? This may account for Stanley's 50p but not Tripps's 2kw usage.

[chinatyke]

50 pence in 6 hours? That would be 2 quid a day or 60 quid a month in background useage, like fridges and eqipment on standby. It sounds very high. Are you sure?

[Tizer]

Tripps, do you have security lights on the outside of your house? Four x 500W would give the 2kW total. Yes, I know they should only come on in the dark and shouldn't repeat every half hour but there's got to be something causing your problem. If security lights malfunctioned and were set for 5 minutes before going off then it might account for the effect. I know our security lights come on in daytime if we get a power cut then go off after their usual time. Could something be causing that to happen perhaps?

[Tripps]

No - I don't have any timed outside lights. The electrics are a bit complex, since there used to be electric underfloor heating, and an off peak Economy seven sytem, but that was all disconnected long ago. There is also a feed to an outside office - all switched off. (Thought I might have squatters). I think I have eliminated the heating as a source - I ran and threw the circuit breaker to it whilst the load was present, but it continued.
I was thinking the meter was faulty, but it responded correctly to switching on and off various things. There seemed to be a pattern as it was active at h+24, and h+44 for about two minutes, but fingers crossed it hasn't happened for a while now.

I've started taking a meter reading daily. Bear in mind the usage has been remarkably steady for a few years now at 200 kWh per month +/- 10%.

The plumber / heating engineer said - 'better speak to an electrician'.
I think the next step is set up the monitor near the consumer unit, and switch things off whilst it is active. Thanks for your interest.

[plaques]

Its almost as though you have a storage heater plugged in with the vents closed. The cycle of 5mins on (heating) and 30mins off (cooling). Have you plugged this in instead of say a dryer?

[Stanley]

China, that's what I thought. I have been triggered by this thread, I shall have a furtle......

[Tripps]

Its almost as though you have a storage heater plugged in with the vents closed. The cycle of 5mins on (heating) and 30mins off (cooling). Have you plugged this in instead of say a dryer?

Thanks for that plaques, It's not the answer, but it set me on the right path.

All the economy seven rads were taken out so it couldn't be them. I have two consumer units - one just says 'heating' on all four switches which are in use. That is switched off totally, but the feeds are capped off, and the wiring remains. There is also electric underfloor heating in the lounge and the kitchen. I assumed that was the heating referred to, and was disabled.

As I was going to bed last night - something made me go to the kitchen, since I had eaten there last Thursday, and I wanted to check that nothing was left on. I looked at a small controller type gadget on the wall - which has always been dark, and I assumed disabled - I pressed a button and it was active!

Just checked now, and I can make the 2kW appear by pressing the on button. It's next to the light switch, so perhaps it was touched in error on Thursday. Anyway - it is now firmly off, and my sanity restored.

For interest I used the electric heating during my first few months here - the bill was about £550 for a quarter, and we weren't even warm! Had gas put in and all is now well.

[Tizer]

We've been out all day so I haven't had a chance to post but when I told Mrs Tiz about Tripps's predicament she immediately said "Immersion heater?"

[Stanley]

Glad you found it David, these things can be a natterment!

[Tizer]

Tripps, but what is the switch connected to and where was all that juice going? Have you still got electrical heaters installed?

[Tripps]

The 'switch' is a thermostat / timer which I had assumed was disconnected. I have not even touched it in the last five years. It is used with underfloor heating in the kitchen - that would be where the juice was going - again which I assumed was now disconnected. All the economy seven radiators have been physically removed.

It is like this one (Actually the left hand one of the two illustrated)

I looked in the house handover package, and found the name of the heating system, but nothing about the operation of the timer/thermostat. It's probably obsolete - but they say such kit is still supported - I may ring them for advice. I now need to know where the feed for it comes from, and then disconnect it.

The main thing is that my daily use is now back down within the usual range.

[PanBiker]

It looks like a reasonably modern device having an LCD display, there are plenty of older ones about. I would have though that the circuit would have its own breaker in the consumer unit and may well be marked. How long have you been in the property Tripps?

[Tripps]

I've been here almost exactly six years. The place had been extended, and the underfloor heat stats in the other rooms are the old fashioned ones with just a rotary temp control, and no timer. I would guess the kitchen which was part of a later extension, was fitted later. I just left them all since they did no harm, and frankly I'm not up to DIY anymore. I've already looked at the consumer unit, and there are no likely candidates among the switches.

I'll leave it for now - my brother in law is visiting in the next few weeks - he's ex building trade, and he can advise. We'll try each switch in turn - one on the switch, and one looking at the device.

Interesting to monitor the power meter though. I'll probably reduce my consumption as a result of this episode. I see I can cut my daytime use by quite a proportion, just by switching off the TV. Goodbye Judge Judy.

[Tripps]

National Grid are getting twitchy about tonight's peak demand. Best check you torches and candles. No one on here can say they weren't warned.

I see that current load is about 46 GW, which seems high considering we were told that the 1st was the warmest November day ever recorded. Lets hope they fix everything before it gets really cold. Doesn't bode well for what we are warned will be the coldest winter for decades.

Perhaps they should switch on more windmills? They are only contributing just 0.29GW.

[Stanley]

There wasn't much wind David....
I had a look at demand and it seems that plant breakdowns were the cause. They seem very complacent to me, the margin of 5% is very low and of course can only be a guesstimate. They can't forecast wind, breakdowns or industrial action. I'd say we are vulnerable even if the weather stays mild. I have made my preparations! Mind you, if I was younger or had a family I'd be thinking about a stand-by generator in the back yard. Think of a family with someone who was ill or a young child. Strategic energy management in England is a disgrace. I say England because of course Scotland has the advantage of hydro giving them an edge..... I'm sorry to say that cuts wouldn't surprise me.