WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

[Tardis]

BBC journos on strike, hence only news on Radio 4, no blustering comment, speculation or futile interviews

Hurrah!

Lets keep them out for a year and see if anyone misses them.

[Tardis]

FoI reveals salaries of the top folk in the publically owned rail companies, Top 1% of salaries.

[hartley353]

Hartley, you can't just turn up for a handout, you have to prove need usually by a referral by social services.
How warm and light it was yesterday....
BBC journalists on site so no Today programme on R4.

Stanley! my knowledge of these food centres was gained from a TV clip about the ones which had opened up in Liverpool, There was no mention of chits from the social services, if you asked the social for help,you would probably starve before they reacted. The impression given was that these centres were run charitably with the food coming from charitable donations, businesses and private, with as usual the church organisations leading. Many of the recipients were working people with no dependence on the state. Remember Stanley if you turn up at a food station for the homeless they wont Question your need, the sandwich and hot drink will be offered willingly,when the asylum seekers found this service,they used it,many homeless turned up to find the cupboard bare.

[hartley353]

BBC journos on strike, hence only news on Radio 4, no blustering comment, speculation or futile interviews

Hurrah!

Lets keep them out for a year and see if anyone misses them.

HEAR HEAR! Most news is space filling.

[hartley353]

I'm glad that didn't last long...it was horrible!

Feel very sorry for you Wendy! And a little responsible around 1990 I worked for the wind energy group, I went into this with a spring in my step feeling that I was doing something useful for my fellow man,it only took a couple of months to find how ugly and useless the wind turbine was,and another year to find my self a better job. Unfortunately in that time I had blighted some nice welsh hills,and the moors above Nelson and Burnley, my sins will live long after me,please forgive.

[PanBiker]

I noticed a two blade turbine on the way down the motorway today, for some reason the two blades as opposed to the normal three looked rather ungainly and seemed to be generating even more flicker.
More seriously the thing that really attracted my attention was the 4 Police Cars, Accident Unit, Fire brigade, three road ambulances and the Air Ambulance in the adjacent field. All personnel engaged in trying to extract the occupants of a car from under the back of an Eddie Stobart trailer just north of the M6 toll junction on the Southbound carriageway. It was not looking good but I hope they made it.

[hartley353]

I noticed a two blade turbine on the way down the motorway today, for some reason the two blades as opposed to the normal three looked rather ungainly and seemed to be generating even more flicker.
More seriously the thing that really attracted my attention was the 4 Police Cars, Accident Unit, Fire brigade, three road ambulances and the Air Ambulance in the adjacent field. All personnel engaged in trying to extract the occupants of a car from under the back of an Eddie Stobart trailer just north of the M6 toll junction on the Southbound carriageway. It was not looking good but I hope they made it.

The fire brigade and the air ambulance saved my nephews life when he was involved in a nasty accident on the M5 14 years ago. Now i'm a great supporter of the Air Ambulance and push their cause any time i can, sorry for nicking a bit of your thread
but it is a good cause.

[Wendyf]

I hope this flickering will only be an occasional problem when the sun is low in the sky and there is a southerly (or northerly) wind making the turbine face our way. It happened again today, as soon as the house filled with sunlight there was flickering just like a strobe....with the shadow of the turbine covering the back of the house. It only lasts about 10 minutes though!
Glad I now have someone to blame for it all Hartley 353!
We have a little micro one of our own that hubby built a few years ago. It's 1.5k and charges up a bank of batteries when the wind is blowing...so we did start the ball rolling (or the turbines turning) round here.

[Stanley]

My mate Bob has recommended another book! Shelves will soon fill up again!
If you don't like BBC news, don't listen to it. I enjoy both it and World Service and I'm not alone....

[Bruff]

I couldn't imagine anything worse than a rigid, objective reeling off of 'he said' she said' or 'this happened, that happened' as an approach to the news bulletins. Much better to have the subjective addition of the OpEd segments as appropriate, to get the listener, or the viewer, thinking (or the reader when it comes to printed media). Even if you don't agree with what's argued, it's served its purpose in that you been encouraged to think. Just a personal preference of course.

Richard Broughton

[hartley353]

I hope this flickering will only be an occasional problem when the sun is low in the sky and there is a southerly (or northerly) wind making the turbine face our way. It happened again today, as soon as the house filled with sunlight there was flickering just like a strobe....with the shadow of the turbine covering the back of the house. It only lasts about 10 minutes though!
Glad I now have someone to blame for it all Hartley 353!
We have a little micro one of our own that hubby built a few years ago. It's 1.5k and charges up a bank of batteries when the wind is blowing...so we did start the ball rolling (or the turbines turning) round here.

Wendy your hubby's a good one,the system you have is the correct way of doing it, Do you then have a invertor so you can power ac equipment. The ones on the hill will run through the night and pump power into the grid at a premium price. There is no use for this power so like its power station partners it just goes to charge capacitor banks, these are necessary to provide load for the generating plant which can not be shut down at night. In my career the only form of clean power I have seen is water power, though of course there is a slight ecological cost to this.Hope you use lead acid batteries which if maintained will last 25 years. Recombination batteries offer 12 years,but in my experience can dry out after 8 years. Many people are putting their faith in Photo Voltaic, they will regret it,the maths do not add up to a positive balance.

[Tizer]

Many people are putting their faith in Photo Voltaic, they will regret it,the maths do not add up to a positive balance.

What's your version of the maths look like, Hartley? Can you give your calculations to support your claim? I'm not being awkward, just interested!

[Wendyf]

We got solar pv just before the tariff changed and were well pleased with the first year's results. When the sun is shining we charge up the batteries and can use the power to run lights in the barn and the freezer, or for a limited time during a power cut.. the electrics associated with the central heating, tv and wifi equipment.
Also have a solar panel (not pv) for hot water....now that is brilliant.

[hartley353]

Many people are putting their faith in Photo Voltaic, they will regret it,the maths do not add up to a positive balance.

What's your version of the maths look like, Hartley? Can you give your calculations to support your claim? I'm not being awkward, just interested!
Sorry tizer most of my imformation has a commercial value, and I couldn't expose it to the net, I have done this to many times in the past and been exploited. Or become a free oracle. But at its simplest you can never get some thing for nothing. The cost of the installation added to its maintenance costs,added to its generating capacity, added to its life expectancy. Do not add up to a saving. In future times there may be a benefit, but then you would probably pay a tax on it.
My local housing association has allowed contractors to install PV on old peoples Bungalows in the local area. Now this could be of benefit to the privateers, pensioners are notoriously parsimonious with there energy use and there could be some to spare for the grid. the main moneys to be made will be from EU grants and the ridiculous premium paid for so called green energy. My back ground for making these claims is many years working on cheap electricity schemes to see them all not reach ten percent of their designers claims. the start of my career was as an electric line and plant man for the G.P.O ,and through hard work and education I have advanced steadily.

[hartley353]

We got solar pv just before the tariff changed and were well pleased with the first year's results. When the sun is shining we charge up the batteries and can use the power to run lights in the barn and the freezer, or for a limited time during a power cut.. the electrics associated with the central heating, tv and wifi equipment.
Also have a solar panel (not pv) for hot water....now that is brilliant.

Yes Wendy, Black pipe water heaters on the roof are excellent technology,if you can raise the water temp prior to heating it, there are big savings to be made.
This technology is fast being replaced by ground heat pumps, with these you can warm the water 24 hrs a day.

[hartley353]

Sorry folks when i dipped my toe into the PV issue it was not my intent to deter folks from going down this line,only to think long and hard, and to question the facts offered by the snake oil salesman offering this new technology. If you have the perfect south facing roof,an energy performance certificate preferably higher than D, Your roof pitch a good 30 degrees and the surface is flat. Plus you have gained your relevant blessing from the district network operator.Then there is the potential to earn maybe £1400 pounds per year index linked for 25 years. It sounds good but also requires a massive leap in faith. Once in the hands of the electric companies you are no longer master of your own destiny they run the FiT.
Most companies installing these systems quote figures over twenty years what this is based on I dont know,the only factual information out there is the BRE REPORT. This is a survey carried out on this equipment between 1997 and 2007, so there is no twenty year data.
Saving energy is easy read the rating plates on equipment when you buy it. Look at the flat screen television most use around 6amps 1.3 Kw the old technology was around 2amps 0.4 Kw there are many more examples.
The last thing and then I am done with this subject, Can you sell this house with the pv on the roof,only around 1 percent of homes have it, doesn't look pretty when viewing, first impressions count. Secondly how much has you building insurance gone up, your risk certainly has.

[Tripps]

That worried me for a moment - 6 amps - that sounds more like an electric fire. I had a quick look round the back of my flat screen TV, and to my great relief it says it is rated at 150 W, which would be about 0.6 amps. That's better.

[hartley353]

That worried me for a moment - 6 amps - that sounds more like an electric fire. I had a quick look round the back of my flat screen TV, and to my great relief it says it is rated at 150 W, which would be about 0.6 amps. That's better.

Apologies for the slip in my mental arithmetic, but couldnt find the calculator,sourced my facts from the Argos catologue, 42 inch 100Kw per year on 4hrs per day usage thats for led telly. plasma 43 inch uses 172Kw on same usage, and for the well to do A 60 inch plasma will use 267 Kw per year again on a average of 4 hrs per day.
Personally our telly is probably on nearly 8 hrs on some days. that would give me a usage of 344 Kw per year very close to IKw per day. If you add in the power for my AV amplifier and subwoofer I bet my original figures are not far out, but that would be by luck. Again I apologise....Mike.

[hartley353]

One for Wendy! In all my ramblings I have failed to mention that I have a small PV system ,all it does is provide power for an aviary at the bottom of the garden and two garden feature lamps the power being stored in two leisure batteries. What i have noticed is that when my 300 watt halogen security lamps come on the set up begins to generate electricity. when the forecast brown outs start to occur, maybe you could have a generator and arc lamps set up to shine on the roof. Your mention of a barn
suggests you may be rural.

[Pluggy]

If my flat screen telly used 1.3 kW I'd be seriously worried (or perhaps not, it only has a 5 amp fuse in the plug) . Its an old one, its a lot greedier than new ones (because it has CFL backlighting whereas new ones use LED) and it uses 125W actually measured (two ways) . New ones with LED backlighting are generally sub 80W, even big ones. I long since stopped believing what the manufacturer puts on electrical plates, its more often than not to protect their backsides and often bears no relation to reality, especially on electronic stuff. An old computer I have sat on my desk is rated at 4A 220-230vAC on a label on the outside. Which comes out at 880 - 920W. The power supply inside is rated at 450 W Measuring it, it actually uses a maximum of 150 W and less than 100 most of the time.

Where to start on the PV panels. About 30% of the narrative actually holds water. Its comparatively easy to come up with your own figures entirely independently of any 'snake oil salesmen'. And perhaps everybody works on 20 years now because the FIT is only paid for 20 years with the latest iteration of the tariffs. Most salesmen work on the figures from PVGIS (feed it into google). And if you do some 'what if' variations in one of the many on-line calculators you'll find that the pitch and orientation of the roof isn't that critical. My own figures from my own panels agree fairly closely with PVGIS. The speed at which the tariffs are being reduced and the speed at which electricity is rising in cost, the FITs will become a minor player in the economics of PV not long from now by my reckoning. Electric currently runs circa 12p a unit from most suppliers, The FIT for domestic sized PV is now less than 16p per unit. March last year it was over 45p per unit. You do need an energy survey but unless you live in a property with less than a D rating its no problem (We didn't need it, but our late Victorian end terrace with medium loft insulation is easily a D). A friends 60's bungalow was rated as a D and it didn't have any loft insulation at all. It became a B when he had decent loft insulation installed. And would have been A if he'd gone the whole hog and had cavity wall insulation as well.

So visit this site :

http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/apps4/ ... map=europe

To get an estimate of what your roof will produce if adorned with panels.

Multiply the number of units it comes up with by the figures from

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Gen ... FITs#rates

to get a return per year. Reduce it by 10% for good measure.

Most firms are charging around £6000 for a 4kWp system these days. Come to your own conclusion. No salesmen required. Neither site has any connection with any PV companies. The politics, ethics and long term reliability of the FIT is out of anyones hands. They pay now.

[Pluggy]

PS.

There isn't a recognised measurement of kW per year. That would actually be a rate of change of power which is non nonsensical. The established measurement is kWh per year. kW is power, kWh is work. You pay for Electricity and gas by the kWh. Sometimes called a "Unit".

A kW is a bigger ( X1000) version of the Watt (W). A kWh (Kilowatt hour) is a huge (X3,600,000) version of the Joule (a Watt second). Which where the mysterious 3.6 multiplier on your gas bill comes from. A kWh is 3.6 Megajoules. 3600 is the number of seconds in an hour, and 1000 Watts in a kW, so 3,600,000. In some parts of the world energy is metered by the Megajoule (MJ) rather than by kWh. The numbers are just 3.6 times as large. KiloJoules (kJ) are the SI variant of the infamous calorie (more accurately the kilocalorie) much loved or hated by dieters. So now you can work out how many Mars bars there are in a Unit of electricity given that a standard 58g Mars bar has 260 kilocalories or 1088 kJ.......

[Tripps]

Thanks for that - I was going to post something similar, but didn't want to be regarded as pedantic.

[Stanley]

Are you sure that information isn't commercially confidential.........?

[Pluggy]

All I've posted is in the public domain apart from the energy rating of my house and an un-named friend . I'm unashamedly a pedant........

[Nolic]

OHHHHH? Are we going down the "I know something you don't and I'm not going to tell you!" trail again. I hope not....btw are the Crown Jewels still in Skipton Castle? Nolic