COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

[Tizer]

Steven, you're interpreting it all in relation to yourself and ignoring the fact that you are not typical. Mobile phones and especially smartphones do offer fantastic possibilities but the majority of people are using them for very basic applications and they do get addicted to them and dependency follows. The manufacturers and retailers love it - they just keep tweaking them and adding on things and the money rolls in.

As for tracking and personal information, it might seem harmless and the benefits might outweigh the dangers when all is going smoothly but that can change at any time. For a start, mistakes get made and the more your personal information is out there, the greater the risk of it getting into the wrong hands or being misinterpreted. Look at the people who are finding aggresive bailiffs at their front door or even breaking into their house due to mistakes being made in the big companies. And what if we ended up with an extremist government...?

[Pluggy]

It's time I fessed up to not having has a mobby for the last four months...

I've quite liked not being a slave to the ringtone!

Don't think I can manage it much longer though; my friends don't want to become permanent personal assistants taking calls and passing messages.

And using the functionality of modern mobiles is obviously desirable.

I've not got a rose-tinted view of the past and, though clearly not an early adopter, embrace change. But there's much that we've lost from our lives as technology has transformed the way we live.

You don't need to confess to not having a mobile phone for me David, Its a nessecery evil, and I'll be getting shut when I retire. Not having a leash in the form of a mobile phone is something I relish. Firmly in the "Stanley" camp when it comes to phones. I do own a smart phone and do use some of its features(mainly in my business), but I could quite happily let it go.

The only way you could get the mobile from my daughter would be to pry it from her 'cold, dead fingers'. Its an age thing.......

[Steven Chorkley]

Sorry Steven but you're showing your age. I can remember a time when the only way of tracking you was have a bobby following you all day so I haven't 'always been tracked'. I never said phones were useless, just that not having one when I was on the road gave me a freedom you will never know. As for you saying that it's rubbish when I object to being interrupted when I'm having a conversation with someone, you're entitled to your own view but don't tell me it's rubbish. It's my point of view and perfectly reasonable. Do you remember the check-out lady who risked her job recently by objecting to a customer ignoring her by using her phone? She evidently agreed with me.
As for general electronic surveillance, I knew about Echelon (or its predecessor) operating from Menwith Hill thirty years ago. My mate risked imprisonment to get out of the NSA, an organisation that the US denied existed at the time. I suspect this was before you were born.
I use the modern technology that fits my life every day but it's my choice, my objection to mass data gathering is based on the fact that it is imposed on me. 75 years ago we went to war over an imposition. So I have a different view of the world, it may be old-fashioned but it is not rubbish.

I'm sorry, but she chose to ignore the customer.... that isn't the mobile phone, that's the employee being a lazy %!*!%

It's as simple as this, if you don't want a phone / computer, don't purchase one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Data tracking is nothing new. It's been around for centuries, it's just that computers allow this tracking to become easier. If you don't want to be tracked, don't connect to the internet, don't purchase a sim card.
Your friend never needed to be involved, that was his choice, his decision.

Computers / Phones or whatever, they are all machines, they don't have a mind of their own, they are operated by humans. It's the misuse that creates issues. It's the persons choice as to how to use technology. None is forcing you to use them. People use technology because it makes their lives easier.

[Steven Chorkley]

As to the age thing.... yeah I agree.
Researchers proved that the adoption rate of technology is extremely high. They've also proved that productivity and efficiency rates are much higher in teenagers than in past generations. Life hacking is what my friends are in to. Adopting techniques to follow tasks in a more timely manner. I'm all for it.

[Tizer]

Do you remember the check-out lady who risked her job recently by objecting to a customer ignoring her by using her phone?

I'm sorry, but she chose to ignore the customer.... that isn't the mobile phone, that's the employee being a lazy %!*!%

Just for the record Steven, it was the customer ignoring the checkout lady, rather than the other way around. She was in that `other world' that phone users want to inhabit more than the immediate world around them.

The idea that it's all down to people's choices is like the argument that people get obese simply because they make the wrong food choices when the truth is that there is enormous commercial pressure from the retailers, manufacturers, advertisers and moneylenders forcing them down that path.

[Steven Chorkley]

Sorry, I guess I got confused.

Right, so McDonalds are forcing people to get fat because of their advertising? Erm. Right then.
So whats your point? You don't like phones?
I couldn't live without mine. The communication is a good thing, it doesn't limit my ability unless I allow it to. Yeah, i'm sure i've held someone up because I was using my phone at some point. That's the nature of it. But i'd rather not live in a small world, maybe that's my age, but I stick by that and as it stands... my peers agree with me.

[plaques]

Its strange how attitudes to surveillance have changed. In the mid 1500’s it was against the law to ‘eavesdrop by standing or lie under a wall or windows of other men’s houses to hear what was said in another man’s house to set debate and dissension between neighbours’. Now virtually anything goes and nobody, especially young people, appear to care.

[Stanley]

It's one of the oldest problems in interpretation of history P. How you interpret things depends on your frame of reference. If your view is coloured by a modern frame of reference you fall into the trap of judging by today's standards. That's why Steven can't accept our interpretation. Tiz is right, the woman with the phone at the check out was dismissing the operator and holding the rest of the queue up, bad manners. Advertisers do bear some responsibility for obesity. Constant surveillance is intrusive. As for my mate and NSA, he didn't choose the job, he was seconded from the military and didn't know the task before he got into the organisation. Once in you can't leave voluntarily, you have to give them a reason for sacking you, he had to do it by beating a monthly lie-detector test. In all these cases you have no choice and that's my definition of loss of freedom. My criterion is my knowledge of the frame of reference 60 years ago. It's called the age gap....

[PanBiker]

So whats your point? You don't like phones?
I couldn't live without mine.

That is one of the saddest statements I have heard for quite a while.

[Tizer]

Yes, Steven's saved us time by summing it up for us! I wonder what will happen if the day comes when he has to live without it?

[Stanley]

Hell have to learn to live how we did. A day's notice to book a call to Oz and about six weeks between sending a letter and getting a reply. No antibiotics and woollen Long Johns!

[Big Kev]

Hell have to learn to live how we did. A day's notice to book a call to Oz and about six weeks between sending a letter and getting a reply. No antibiotics and woollen Long Johns!

Would you want to go back to that, though? Technology has moved on, mainly for our benefit, I believe the perceived issues are brought about by human nature. Steven may not be able to "live without his phone" probably because he's always used one, it's just what you get used to. I was nearly 40 before I got a personal mobile phone, I still use one but very rarely. It's usually to ask 'er indoors to put the kettle on as I'll be home in 5 minutes

[Stanley]

My mate and his wife lived in a very big house. They used to call each other to find out where they were....

[Pluggy]

You can practicaly guarantee at least one line in any mobile phone conversation will be "Where are you ?".

[LizG]

About 2 months ago I finally gave in and changed all my bills to be delivered by email. I set up directories for paid and unpaid bills as well as alarms for the day before they were due.

Why am I telling you this you may well be asking.

Last Friday our desktop PC ceased to function and whilst I can access some emails via an internet login, the bills I've filed and set alarms for are of course no longer available. Clearly you can rely on technology too much. It's very annoying!!

Looks like its only the power supply that is the problem and we do have a backup from a couple of months ago, but when we get it back I will work out another method of managing bills.

[Stanley]

I hate nasty little shocks like that.... But you've managed to post?

[LizG]

It was the desktop pc that died and I also have a laptop which I use mainly for my Ancestry stuff. I also have a tablet but I find it too small to use on the internet. I use that mainly for reading.

I dropped the pc off this morning for repairs and by lunchtime they rang me and said it was fixed. They put in a new power supply and its fine. What great service; I did commend them.

I now need to work out a backup system that doesn't involve printing bills and defeating the whole purpose of going electronic. I don't want to fill up my laptop with copies of emails.

[Big Kev]

I now need to work out a backup system that doesn't involve printing bills and defeating the whole purpose of going electronic. I don't want to fill up my laptop with copies of emails.

Get a pen drive (memory stick) or use a rewriteable CD and use this to regularly back up the bills and emails

[Tizer]

Kev's suggestion is one approach. You could keep laptop backups on the PC, PC backups on the laptop, and backups of both on an external hard disk (but make sure you don't include backups within backups, if you see what I mean, or you'll get into a dangerous spiral!). You can't have enough belts and braces when it comes to computers. If your backups are getting too big then do some rigorous housekeeping. As well as getting rid of unnecessary stuff make sure you aren't clogging up the computers with photos that are 100s of times bigger than they need to be. With digital cameras now creating images of 5MB they soon fill your hard disk if you take lots of photos. Yet most of the time we don't need such large images. Watch out also for email software filling your disk with large attachments, not just the incoming stuff but check your Sent folder which will have copies of all the large attached files you've sent out.

[Pluggy]

For bills, logging into the companies website with your credentials will invariably give you the option to download past bills. I don't worry about email copies.

[Tizer]

An article in The Times on Saturday described how the Silicon Valley entrepreneurs in California, the people who run the computer and software companies, are very strict about not letting their young kids freely use electronic gadgets and even their teenage children are restricted to set times for using computers for other than school use. They are concerned about the negative effects on their children. Perhaps, then, they should be putting warning labels on the stuff they sell, telling customers about their concerns and giving advice on how to bring up kids in an electronic online world?

[Stanley]

Nice thought Tiz but impracticable I suspect. The Genie is out of the bottle and we have a new generation of young people who, Like our Steven, can't live without their phones/games etc. The only thing we can do is make them a better offer. Encourage other interests and activities.
As for saving emails, any really important ones get printed and filed. The rest are erased regularly. My back ups are on external hard drive X two. I back up once a year. Everything in the current year's data. I never worry about size of images, storage is so vast these days that it isn't worth the bother.
Pluggy, let your mind have a wander and come up with an ideal spec. for upgrading FM3. I have no problems but I'm beginning to wonder if I ought to be thinking about solid state HDs and that seems to me to be an ideal time to upgrade the board and chip. Have a play with it and let me know what you think..... Must make sure I keep up with the machinery maintenance, I might die soon! (I may be a dinosaur in many ways but not when it comes to looking after machinery!)

[Stanley]

Pluggy has got back to me and persuaded me that a full upgrade would be a waste in terms of bangs for buck. What a sensible man! However, I have dangled another approach in front of him......

[Big Kev]

Pluggy has got back to me and persuaded me that a full upgrade would be a waste in terms of bangs for buck. What a sensible man! However, I have dangled another approach in front of him......

You would be cracking a walnut with a sledgehammer. The FM2 is still more than enough to keep me going for a while and I use fairly intense image manipulation software on it...

[Stanley]

Yes, I know Kev but allow an old bloke to have his foibles! I get quite a lot of satisfaction and street cred with my grandchildren by having the most modern OS and computer. (That and the ear ring!) One of them was overheard telling one of her mates that her Granddad is 'cool'! Lovely!