OneGuyFromBarlick

Maz, I wonder how many infections arise through the `dark economy' where people are still paying and being paid cash to avoid tax?

Police fine 29 at Blackburn wedding party, some had travelled down from Inverness.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-l ... e-54985449

There were 9 fines issued, for breaches of covid regulations, in Burnley this evening too. What is wrong with people?

I know I am going out on a limb here and feel free to hurl accusations of Scrooge at me but I am fed up with all this talk about 'Saving Xmas'.
Xmas is quite safe and has been for the last 2,000 years. What is being argued for isn't Xmas but our treatment of it. Family gatherings are the most beneficial of our activities, what's really driving this is the economic impact of losing a large part of the biggest retail spend of the year.
Will someone bite the bullet and say that any relaxation of restrictions 'To save Xmas' will be paid for in higher infection and death rates? Is this really what people want? I sense that many of the experts consulted about this in interviews desperately want to say just that but know that the result would be instant vilification.
So please could we stop making statements about saving Xmas and tell the truth, we are facing the results of a very badly run anti-Covid campaign. Don't make it even worse!

Apologies to Tennyson.

‘Forward, the shopping Brigade!’
Was there a man dismay’d?
Not tho’ the shopper knew
Someone had blunder’d:
Their’s not to make reply,
Their’s not to reason why,
Their’s but to do and die:
Into the malls of Death
Strode the bargain hunters.
Covid to right of them,
Covid to left of them,
Covid in front of them
Volley’d and thunder’d;
Into the shopping malls
Its OK says Gove.

I found this one this morning..

Nice one Ken..... I take it you agree with me then?
Later.... Listening to all the optimistic opinions about three vaccines at once it strikes me that it might be a good thing to hold fire until we actually see the campaign in progress and succeeding. I fear the consequences if anything happened to dash hopes. I'm not expecting this but I think it would be better not to risk it.

We've got a lockdown.....Booo
Ends December 2nd.......Hurray
Back to tier three+ .......Booo
But there's a vaccine......Hurray
Not here yet................Booo
90% efficient................Hurray
Out by Easter...............Booo

Easter Sunday, 4 April 2021. Tin hats on Lads.

My favourite consultant virologist Dr Chris Smith naked scientist blog was on the radio this morning. He mentioned his wife and her concerns at the logistics of getting the vaccine to all her practice's eight thousand patients. Good to hear she's on the case as she works at my own GP practice.

He was asked directly which of the three vaccines Astrazenica/Oxford, Moderna, or Pfizer) he would choose for himself. Not being a politician he actually gave an answer. He said Astrazenica for him.

I'd agree with him and at low dosage?

Seems they got better results when they gave half a dose followed by a full dose after four weeks. It looks like no one knows why this should be, or even why they did it at all.

I am guessing that part of the reason previous vaccines took years to come into use, was that trials were conducted on such matters as which was the best dose. There isn't time to do that in this case. Might be good to see the effect of different doses on different age groups.

He said the recipe for the Astrazenica jab was based on tried and tested methods, which had been used successfully for Ebola without issues. He lightheartedly said that the share price would probably rise as a result of his comments - I looked and in fact it went down by over 3%.

PS
I've a feeling that we won't be given an a la carte menu, and a free choice, when it actually happens. I think a bit more information to help to make an 'informed choice' would be welcome.

I'm pretty sure that you are right there David, giving the customer a choice? don't be silly!
What I think will happen will be that the first to get the vaccines will get the foreign ones we have contracted for as they will be here first. Eventually the cheapest will be favoured and this will almost certainly be the Oxford/Astrazenica offering.
What is worrying me about vaccines at the moment is that they are being regarded as an end to the pandemic. It is being factored into everything from the Chancellor's Financial statement to bookings for 2021 holidays. The relaxing of restrictions at Xmas is a good example. I'd be a lot happier if we were waiting for some concrete evidence on the effects. At the moment there is none.

Best thinking on the low dose first is that it primes the immune system. Second full dose boosts the effect up to 90% effective.

Stanley wrote: ↑26 Nov 2020, 04:38 giving the customer a choice? don't be silly!

Actually I was given a choice of anaesthetic for my first hip operation in the NHS, but not for the second which was done in a private hospital. The option of being fully conscious had little appeal though.

******************************************

PanBiker wrote: ↑26 Nov 2020, 09:38 Best thinking on the low dose first is that it primes the immune system

That looks right - more detail here Low dose first in well written understandable English I'd say.

I wonder if the Chimpanzees were related to the PG Tips ones?

I was going to refer to that aspect of it all. Wait till the 'Sun' finds out.

Does that mean that since animals are involved, that vegans wont have the vaccination on principle?

They have only used the by product of "passed" vegetable matter so I think it should be OK.

The tiers have been announced for next week. All of Lancashire will be in tier 3

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/full-list-o ... rs-by-area

Tripps wrote: ↑26 Nov 2020, 10:26 I was going to refer to that aspect of it all. Wait till the 'Sun' finds out.

Not surprisingly the social media sites got to it first, with wild claims about the vaccine turning us into monkeys. Some of the people surrounding Trump have played a part in that...I think one of them might be Trump's older son, Donald Trump Junior.

Tizer wrote: ↑26 Nov 2020, 15:01 I think one of them might be Trump's older son, Donald Trump Junior.

Naming your son after yourself, sure sign of a an egotist.

I think the gilt is starting to come off the Astrazenica vaccine gingerbread. Looks like the 'half dose was a mistake, which they then incorporated into the trial. Worrying that no one over 55 got the half dose - so they did split the group by age then? I read somewhere that the US authorities are unlikely to approve it.

Cue- numerous conspiracy theories. 'So if the 'manufacturing problem has been corrected - there won't be any more half doses, and they're the best' . . . . .

This is from the telegraph.

In a statement on Wednesday, Oxford University said some of the vials used in the trial did not have the right concentration of vaccine, meaning some volunteers got a half dose. The university said it discussed the problem with regulators and agreed to complete the late stage trial with two groups. The manufacturing problem has been corrected, according to the statement.

Experts said the relatively small number of people in the low dose group makes it difficult to know if the effectiveness seen in the group is real or a statistical quirk. Some 2,741 people received a half dose of the vaccine followed by a full dose, AstraZeneca said. A total of 8,895 people received two full doses.

Another factor is that none of the people in the low-dose group were over 55 years old. Younger people tend to mount a stronger immune response than older people, so it could be that the youth of the participants in the low-dose group, rather than the size of the dose, is why it looked more effective.

Another point of confusion comes from a decision to pool results from two groups of participants who received different dosing levels to reach an average 70 per cent effectiveness, said David Salisbury, an associate fellow of the global health programme at the Chatham House think tank.

"You've taken two studies for which different doses were used and come up with a composite that doesn't represent either of the doses," he said of the figure. "I think many people are having trouble with that.""

I reckon the increase, in the tier restrictions, is to try and empty some hospital beds for February. Once everyone has ignored any advice over the Christmas period they might need some...

I'll repeat what I said elsewhere, I can't see the reason for any relaxation of any rules. I recognise the economic affect but I also recognise that the virus is out there and we have no other defence. The time to relax is when infections drop permanently and even then vulnerable people like me will do well to be very careful.

I like it Cathy. Freddy was before his time!