FORGOTTEN CORNERS

[David Whipp]

A facebook thread on the same topic has prompted Nick Livesey to comment about a rumour that a Roman mosaic was buried under the Ghyll Brow plant...

Production at Ghyll may be winding down in the next few years, so there may be the opportunity to find out.

[Tizer]

It's sometimes surprising what archaeologists find when they get a chance to dig. They've been allowed to dig a small area within the walls of Lincoln Castle recently because of the need to address some safety and accessibility issues. There hasn't been any digging before due to the area inside the walls having so many `heritage' buildings. They found remains of Roman terraced houses that had been inhabited by merchants, a church and artefacts from the 11th Century, and several human remains, some of poor folk and others of the toffs. Loads of animal bones showing that a lot of expensive feasting went on (calf, lamb, fowl, swan, pike etc). Dating of the bones links them to several visits by Henry II and his retinue, so they dined well (as always!). So you never know what might turn up!

[Stanley]

David, it's rather like the culverts.... out of sight, out of mind. Think Richard III under a car park! We are invariably surprised once we start digging.
John Clayton's work on the LIDAR data is a case in point. The two most attractive finds are Roman remains and Saxon churches. It looks as though we might have both in Barlick! I am convinced from the evidence that we had a Saxon church in the Townhead/Calf Hall area and the LIDAR results have given very clear indications of a possible site at Calf Hall Farm. I have been banging on about it for years...... What an asset for promoting the town! The hamlets that make up the modern Barlick were established long before the Pyramids! This is certain and could be included in promotional literature now.

[Wendyf]

Photo of Bankfield test beds courtesy of Ken Ranson.

[plaques]

The big detuners on 1 & 2 beds were the first to take the Conway engine. Previously they ran the old Avon engines. It was the Conways that people complained about. They really made the testbed rattle especialiy before they uprated the beds to take the extra thrust. The top smaller beds were used for the Nene and Dart engines. Tiny little things that one man could install without any difficulty. It was a sad day when they closed the beds down but engines were getting just too big to handle at Barlick and besides I don't think David would have liked the increased noise.

[Stanley]

Were there test beds at Gill Brow later?

[David Whipp]

I don' know if there were ever test beds at Ghyll Brow Stanley.

Thank you very much for the picture Wendy, that's as I remember them as a young lad.

I don't think our family complained about the noise, though it may well have affected egg laying by the poultry flock just across the canal! My dad always took the view that what was good for Rolls was good for Barlick and agreed with every extension of the factory across the valley floor in front of our house.

The one issue that did get his goat was when they built the new boiler house upwind of ours. The stacks emitted fumes below the level of our garden and they swept up and around the house. That issue was complained about, leading to the increase in height of the three stacks (the narrower extensions that used to be there).

The boiler house subsequently converted from coal to gas and, following one of the stacks being blown over in a gale, all three have been reduced in height. (We don't have any problems with fumes as a result.)

[Wendyf]

An associated picture. Building the car park at Gill Brow. I'm not sure about the year, possibly in the 1950s.

This from Ken Ranson re the above photo:-

"The photo is the frontage of Ghyll Brow works, you can position it by the entrance to the golf club in the top right hand corner.
The old barn was Low Laithe and I think the small building would have been the gas meter house, the existing meter house is a similar construction at the rear of today's gate house.
I would suggest that these are the ground works for the building of two buildings in the area. One was a low level brick building, which was originally the canteen and is still there, and the other a high level corrugated building which was the Die Shop which in turn was demolished to make way for the two-storey modern building."

On the matter of Roman floors he says:-
"Over the years I produced numerous pits ranging in depth from a few inches to many feet deep to accommodate presses, degreasers, chemical machining tanks, VTLs etc and the only thing we found was the water table at three feet."

[plaques]

I have heard it said that Ghyll Brow was the very early testbeds during the war years. These were later converted to house some of the earlier presses. This 'old' press shop was built in compartment sections out of Accrington brick, a little bit unusual for an internal structure. As such it would have been able to contain any debris from engine malfunctions. All this was long before my time I might add.

[Wendyf]

A bit more information from Ken:-

"The early test beds were at Ghyll, a high level brick building at rear of site, there were four beds, came across some engine mountings whilst digging once. Plaques is correct about the Accrington brick as my builder found to his disgust once. He had priced me for removing a section of wall without realising how hard the brick is. He lost thousands on the job."

[Stanley]

Thanks for that....
Harold Duxbury did a lot of work for Rolls during the war. He told me they had only one mistake due to a drawing being wrong. They built a wall to high level in an existing building in the middle of the room. It was in the wrong place. I think that was at Derby....

[Stanley]

Mentioned in another topic, the flood water coming over the field and into the dam at Bancroft in July 1932. This is bad enough but it's worth recognising that this wasn't the peak. I don't know whether it was taken before or after but I favour the former because the water rose high enough to burst the wall on the left and allow it to flow across the road into the beck behind what was then a tannery. Note that not much water is flowing in through the culvert. This is almost certainly because the trash screen on the mouth of the culvert upstream was already choked with rubbish.

[David Whipp]

Thanks Stanley.

In flood conditions, a couple of the current residents of Bancroft Fold go up to the trash screens (there are several now) and rake them clear to help protect their properties.

Here they are after an event in early December 2015:

[Stanley]

That's what John Plummer and I used to do regularly, especially in late summer. But even so a sudden flush could bring enough trash down to block the culvert as in 1977.

[David Whipp]

Agreed.

I've emailed a copy of your pre-1932 flood to staff at Pendle who will hopefully be commissioning the flood relief study (subject to funding approval).

[Stanley]

Good, let them know I am still alive and well and if they want to take advantage of what I know from experience and have learned from research I'll be pleased to help.



In my opinion the choke point with the greatest potential for damage is the Clough Culvert. The trash screen has been greatly improved and in 2004 it was still coping as the design of the screen allows for top entry should the primary grill become choked with trash. However, ever since Clough Park was established on the cleared mill site I have advocated opening the culvert up into an open beck, upgrading the bridge in Walmsgate and giving the water all the space it needs to get into Butts. There are no buildings obstructing this improvement.

[David Whipp]

This is the 'new' trash screen in action on 12th December 2015.

If the extensive grills do become choked, the water will pour over the wall seen in Stanley's picture and inundate the properties downstream.

[Stanley]

That's the problem David. If you have a choke point which is unavoidable you need a Plan B. In the case of the M62 culvert on the Beal, Plan B was that the water could escape via the slight gulley at the base of the embankment, flow onto the road under the bridge and regain the original water course without threatening any property. I had to point that out to the potential developers of a hotel on the site. In the case of Clough, there is no Plan B. Once the trash screen is overwhelmed Walmsgate is vulnerable. Opening the culvert out and making an adequate culvert under the road would get the water away from the properties. This would have applied even in 1932, apart from the culvert the back wall of the mill was the problem and the water burst it.

Here's an Oldie....



The 'Men's Shelter' on Letcliffe in 1982.

[David Whipp]

Ah yes.

For good or ill, I was the main mover in getting the shelter knocked down. It was a right den of iniquity with under-age drinkers using it.

Afraid I can't match Stanley's exterior shot with an internal one; it'd take me too long to find the print in the forgotten corner of my old photos box.

[PanBiker]

The shelter had a drinking fountain on the end of the building. As a general question, what happened to the concept of the public drinking fountain, there used to be one at Victory Park as well. What about plumbing up "Old Gormless" in the town square and putting it back to its original use, it has water feeds for animals as well.

[Stanley]

If you look in the hedge on the side of the path the water connection still exists.....

[David Whipp]

When he was a councillor, Allan Buck was keen to plumb in Old Gormless... there was so much H&S involved, it didn't go very far.

We did install a tap for drinking at Victory Park at the new pavilion (this was an addition after the building was opened). Unfortunately, it didn't last very long before yobs destroyed it. It hasn't been replaced.

[PanBiker]

Fair comment on Victory Park David but I cant quite grasp what the H&S implications would be with a mains water feed to Old Gormless. It would make a very nice feature in the town square. You see plenty of features like this on the continent so it cant be Euro regulations. When we were in Rome I read that there were over a thousand public drinking points around the city, it's positively dripping with them and very handy for tourists and locals alike.

[Wendyf]

This picture titled "Old house at Moses Lee" is from a Slater family album which was donated to the history society. The pictures look to have been taken in the early 20th C.

[Stanley]

Lovely old pic Wendy. I haven't seen it before. I think you are correct with the date.....