Coronavirus (Covid19) Corner

[Big Kev]

That typevof 'track and trace' system was in place here when hospitality venues were open, the whole country is in lockdown at the moment so the only reason anyone is allowed out of their home is for exercise once a day, essential shopping, medical appointments or if they are in danger. Rather than rely on people scanning a QR code or physically signing a piece of paper, the track and trace app here uses bluetooth technology and registers proximity to other devices. It's compulsory to wear a face covering in shops and there are security guards controlling this at the supermarkets, all non essential shops are closed. There are heavy fines, issued to those who breach the restrictions, which start at £200 for individual offences up to £10000 for organisers of 'events'. A funeral director was recently fined this for breaching the allowed number of mourners. Anyone who attends a 'house party', of more than 15 people, faces an £800 fine and the organiser £10000.

[Marilyn]

Wonderful. That will help greatly and I don’t think was employed early on.
How do they track folk without phones?

[Sue]

The system you describe Maz has been going on here for months . Certainly when I was having my hair done way back in July I was signing in and using QR codes displayed in buildings from as far back as September I think. People who are positive are supposed to give a list of anyone they came in contact with...if they can remember...and they ate traced manually as in any contact tracing program. One of my acquaintances trained for this part of contact tracing way back in June. I think it is an established method for any serious infectious disease. Nothing new there just expanded. So there are systems in place and have been for many months.

[Marilyn]

Covid is particularly worrisome for us, because I have mentioned before that we live in a coastal holiday destination with good facilities ( eg caravan parks, cabins, bike tracks, cliff walks, supermarkets, visitor attractions ( including a wildlife park where you can feed kangaroos and koalas). We are 2 hours south of the city ( so easy reach for workers/families wanting a break) and about 5 hours from the border, so (again) a good days travel for those in caravans and campers. A good place to stay! We welcome visitors. We also host the School-leavers muck up week every year.
That leaves us in diabolical place, as the majority of our seaside population are “dear old things on mobility scooters”.
We stay home when it is school holidays. I had to pop out for bits today, but gosh it was crowded and I wish I hadn’t bothered!
I feel we are vulnerable as a community.

[Big Kev]

How do they track folk without phones?

85% of the UK population own a smartphone.

[Sue]

Wonderful. That will help greatly and I don’t think was employed early on.
How do they track folk without phones?

These fines and number restrictions have been in place for many months Maz, much longer than I can even remember. Where I live and I think it is the same Barlick, tight restrictions have been in place in one form or another since last July. We have not been sitting back doing nothing. Europe as a whole has been badly affected this winter. France starts its third lockdown today. Now there is a country who could do with upping their game. They could learn a thing or two from us as could many other European countries.

[Big Kev]

Covid is particularly worrisome for us, because I have mentioned before that we live in a coastal holiday destination with good facilities ( eg caravan parks, cabins, bike tracks, cliff walks, supermarkets, visitor attractions ( including a wildlife park where you can feed kangaroos and koalas). We are 2 hours south of the city ( so easy reach for workers/families wanting a break) and about 5 hours from the border, so (again) a good days travel for those in caravans and campers. A good place to stay! We welcome visitors. We also host the School-leavers muck up week every year.
That leaves us in diabolical place, as the majority of our seaside population are “dear old things on mobility scooters”.
We stay home when it is school holidays. I had to pop out for bits today, but gosh it was crowded and I wish I hadn’t bothered!
I feel we are vulnerable as a community.

Perhaps a countrywide lockdown is required there...

[Marilyn]

Borders snap shut in an instant. They work.
( but I still could not understand calling into a country town for a coffee after Christmas and it was FULL of Japanese and Arab tourists. How did they get in?!)

[Big Kev]

Wonderful. That will help greatly and I don’t think was employed early on.
How do they track folk without phones?

These fines and number restrictions have been in place for many months Maz, much longer than I can even remember. Where I live and I think it is the same Barlick, tight restrictions have been in place in one form or another since last July. We have not been sitting back doing nothing. Europe as a whole has been badly affected this winter. France starts its third lockdown today. Now there is a country who could do with upping their game. They could learn a thing or two from us as could many other European countries.

Certainly the same for most of the north west Sue, it took a little longer for London and the southeast to catch up, restriction wise, but I believe a lot of the 'tier' restrictions were based on available hospital beds.

[Sue]

I take that back, France are still only talking about a third lockdown with numbers rising rapidly with the new variant.

You mention covid is worry some Maz, it is here too. This area with its damp atmosphere and the large number of elderly who were around when it was heavily industrial and large numbers of coal fires leaves an elderly population with a very high level of bronchitis and COPD. This is conveniently forgotten when high death rates in my are of Greater Manchester are talked about. I have a permanent cough and asthma which I never had when I lived in south Manchester and the NE of England. I think every country has an indigenous problem, and each has to find the solutions that work best for them. Most are classic epidemiology solutions but extra is needed for this disease

[Sue]

Shutting borders here is a problem when so much of your food and essential reources come from Europe. For everyone else they have been shut fir some while. I think lorry drivers have to have a negative covid test now to cross the channel.

[Marilyn]

Whoever thought that we could become so frightened of fellow humans...

[plaques]

Suspicious as always, The government is coming under fire for extending the wait period for the Pfizer vaccine from 3 weeks to 12, don't worry you are still protected is the mantra. Then now another message, those who have had one dose must still observe the rules because they could still pass the virus on to others therefore stay safe. Looks good advice on the surface but is this a bit of a cover up just in case large numbers of the single dose oldies start catching the virus again and give a lie to the 3 week delay?
I hope not but you never know in this age of spin.

[Big Kev]

Being an island it should have been relatively simple to 'lock the doors' but, as Sue says, we are reliant on importing a lot. Personal travel is heavily restricted though, this is what the government say

Under current UK COVID-19 restrictions, you must stay at home. You must not leave home or travel, including internationally, unless you have a legally permitted reason to do so. Check the rules that apply to you in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

If you intend to travel to England, Scotland, Wales, or Northern Ireland from abroad, including UK nationals returning home, you must provide evidence of a negative COVID-19 test result taken up to 3 days before departure. If you do not comply (and you do not have a valid exemption) your airline or carrier may refuse you boarding and/or you may be fined on arrival.

Before you return to the UK you must provide your journey and contact details. You must self-isolate when you enter the UK from any foreign country except Ireland, unless you have a valid exemption.

[Big Kev]

Suspicious as always, The government is coming under fire for extending the wait period for the Pfizer vaccine from 3 weeks to 12, don't worry you are still protected is the mantra. Then now another message, those who have had one dose must still observe the rules because they could still pass the virus on to others therefore stay safe. Looks good advice on the surface but is this a bit of a cover up just in case large numbers of the single dose oldies start catching the virus again and give a lie to the 3 week delay?
I hope not but you never know in this age of spin.

My understanding is the vaccine (same as all of them) reduces the impact the virus has on the body. You can still catch it and pass it on so until the most vulnerable, and the majority of the rest of us, have been vaccinated we should still be behaving as we are now.

[Marilyn]

I realise you are in lockdown and may be for some time. But do you have to register your QR code every time you buy petrol, or a newspaper, or a container of milk? ( I am not suggesting anyone is visiting cafes or pubs at present, I’m just asking if every interaction you do is being recorded and what happens to those who choose not to carry mobile phones).

[plaques]

My understanding is the vaccine (same as all of them) reduces the impact the virus has on the body. You can still catch it and pass it on so until the most vulnerable, and the majority of the rest of us, have been vaccinated we should still be behaving as we are now.

Agreed and that's what we will be doing through the rest of the year. I would have perhaps liked to hear that the vaccine isn't the silver bullet but a good and useful tool in bringing the 'R' rate down. As such the 'R' rate will determine when it is reasonable safe to start getting back to normal. As I have said good advice but is there an element of covering their backs in case the 12 weeks delay is technically flawed. I for one don't want to find out the hard way.

[Marilyn]

There is talk that we will adopt a “no vaccination -no entry” rule to Australia.
There is also talk that this may become a border rule between our internal state borders.

[Big Kev]

I realise you are in lockdown and may be for some time. But do you have to register your QR code every time you buy petrol, or a newspaper, or a container of milk?

We've effectively been in a lockdown of one form or another since July. With regard to registering a QR code in every time we buy things, not something I've done. Unless someone is completely off grid we're tracked whenever we buy something anyway, I receive a notification from my bank for every transaction made with my debit card. Any track and trace would be based on percentages so those without a smartphone wouldn't be counted. Throughout the world there will always be some who are not counted so there will never be a 100% complete system.

[plaques]

I realise you are in lockdown and may be for some time. But do you have to register your QR code every time you buy petrol, or a newspaper, or a container of milk? ( I am not suggesting anyone is visiting cafes or pubs at present, I’m just asking if every interaction you do is being recorded and what happens to those who choose not to carry mobile phones).

In a sense our Mobile App is deeply flawed. The QR code is only registered on your personal phone there isn't a central register of events. You can delete the App or its contents at any time, whether you notify contacts or ignore notifications to you is your own choice. Some areas 'Libraries' enforce the rules to the last letter others use the transaction record as proof of entry and more don't bother at all. In other words a cock-up.

[Big Kev]

There is talk that we will adopt a “no vaccination -no entry” rule to Australia.
There is also talk that this may become a border rule between our internal state borders.

The same has been in the news here too, there is also talk of access to entertainment venues, pubs and restaurants being restricted to those vaccinated only but that is just the media saying it. There's nothing official from the government.

[Marilyn]

So...if you pay cash...and do not have a mobile phone ( or choose to leave it home) you are invisible?
Hmmm. I find that deeply distressing.
The whole point of the track and trace system is to quickly connect with anyone who may have shared air space with a positive person. It should not take bank details to make the connection.
Madam...you were in the chemist at 9.15 pm. You need to isolate and get tested. A person possibly stood beside you at that time, had Covid!

[Sue]

There is talk here too about having a vaccination requirement to travel but no plans Maz.

As for the vaccine up until 3 weeks after the vaccine you will have insufficient immunity not to catch it and be ill . After that you may carry the virus but not be ill, however each time the body is exposed to the virus, by second vaccine or not the immunity level increases, or theoretically should. Its not just the government being safe here its the scientists as well, what the theory says and what this virus seems to do does not always match up.

I remember there were a few cases of mothers catching polio after handling the nappies of babies who had been vaccinated. Until we know for sure that the level of protection the vaccine gives its better to be safe than sorry. The Astra zenica vaccine was actually found to improve the secondary response the longer between the two vaccinations , they did trial it up to 9 or even 12 weeks I believe. They can’t say the same for the Pfizer vaccine because they did not do trials on it. Both are said to give up to 70 % protection on one dose. Our Scientists have looked at the Pfizer data I believe and are happy with the longer gap.

The theory is sound, the realty may be different so hence the warning.

[Sue]

So...if you pay cash...and do not have a mobile phone ( or choose to leave it home) you are invisible?
Hmmm. I find that deeply distressing.
The whole point of the track and trace system is to quickly connect with anyone who may have shared air space with a positive person. It should not take bank details to make the connection.
Madam...you were in the chemist at 9.15 pm. You need to isolate and get tested. A person possibly stood beside you at that time, had Covid!

As I said earlier there is a legal requirement to name your contacts in the previous two weeks as in ANY EPIDEMIC and NOTIFIABLE DISEASE . This is normal track and trace that has been around for decades. The app etc was to support not to replace this system. But probably the only ones with out phones in the UK are the very old who don’t want the technology. I think you underestimate us.

[Marilyn]

EPIDEMIC is different to PANDEMIC, Sue.
This way is faster for track and trace. They know where you were every day and what time of the day. You don’t have to remember if it was Tuesday or Wednesday you were at the shops, or if it was possibly lunchtime or 2 pm, or if you spent half hour or an hour there. Track and trace will contact YOU and know who you have been in contact with, so will contact them.