POLITICS CORNER

[Tripps]

That may yet be right - but the current SNP leader at Westminster is Angus Robertson. I seem to remember Salmond saying recently that he had no designs upon the position. That said - I can't see him playing second fiddle to anyone. We will see.

[Tizer]

So, after much analysis and critical assessment ( ) Russell Brand has told everyone not only to vote but to vote for Labour. It might be a bit on the late side for his acolytes if they haven't registered to vote.

[Stanley]

HERE'S an interesting analysis of what is actually going on.... I am absolutely certain that in the back corridors the parties are already talking to each other 'exploring options'. Only a fool would leave the start of this process until after the vote. Of course we will not know about this until someone writes his or hers memoirs..... For instance, it looks like a possible melt down of the Labour and Liberal votes in Scotland with the SNP holding a large majority of the seats. I don't know whether this is good or bad, but it looks like independence by other means. When you think about it this could be a better route for Scotland. I am reminded of Stanley Baldwin.... For the papers, substitute the SNP.

" What the proprietorship of these papers is aiming at is power, and power without responsibility — the prerogative of the harlot through the ages."
Baldwin was attacking the leading press barons of his day (Lord Beaverbrook and Lord Rothermere); the phrase was suggested by Baldwin's cousin Rudyard Kipling (17 March 1931)

[Bruff]

Mr Salmond will not be negotiating with anyone prior to the formation of a Westminster Government. If any negotiations take place with the SNP, they will be with Ms Sturgeon as SNP leader, which she has made crystal clear when asked the direct question. Given that the SNP has also made it crystal clear they will not go into coalition but judge any proposal on its merits (save for it never supporting a Tory Queen’s speech, which simply reflects the likely crushing mandate they will have from the now very, but inconveniently it seems, politically engaged Scots), if any chats on these merits take place I would have thought it’d be with the SNP leader in Westminster,which may or may not be Mr Salmond. I know the Westminster Tories like in their charming way, to depict Mr Salmond as a pickpocket in the black polo-necked garb of the robber (and so by association all those millions of Scots who will vote for his party), but for me that’s just another demonstration of their fundamental indecency. They have a dim view of the troublesome poor and disadvantaged; there’s little reason to suspect they show any common decency to the ‘troublesome’ Scots. The demonization of Mr Salmond by Westminster comes too close for my liking to the demonization of the Scottish people.

I’m not surprised the people of Carlisle have a nervousness about the situation north of the border, but I would be nervous for different reasons. I am almost certain now that we are sleep walking to the dissolution of the Union, as well as sleep walking to leaving the EU. Whether the latter drives the former (as it is inconceivable for the Scots to ‘allow’ England to force it out of the EU), or the indecency of politicians towards the Scots that forces another referendum and their leaving the Union at about the same time we leave the EU, doesn’t really matter. But there will be a major international land border just a few miles north of Carlisle (as there would be another major international land border just south of Warrenpoint in Northern Ireland). Whenever I ask a UKIPper or pro-EU vote Tory about the contingencies here, they either haven’t given it any thought or simply assume it’ll be ‘alright’. Well, it won’t as the Irish well know: their PM has set up a task force to plan and game just this eventuality given the complexity and danger.

God knows what that ‘tombstone’ with the pledges was about. Which idiot came up with that?

Richard Broughton

[Tizer]

"It's OK Bruff, they've promised to hide it in the garden at No.10; I guess so that the public will forget about it.

I hate these referendums. Just when we need to tackle a problem by careful analysis and rigorous critical assessment carried out by experts what do we do but go and have a referendum presenting a very brief question and expect people to give a yes or no answer and then allow that to be the basis of our decision. Barmy!

By the way, today is the day the Greeks have to cough up 200 million euros to pay off part of their debt to the IMF; and a week later they've got to find another 700 million. This could provide a little excitement if our election isn't enough!
[Edit at 4.15...The Greek stock market has been falling, and was 4.5% down at about 2.00pm]

Later...you know I get annoyed with the European Commission (EC), well here's an example why. In 2011 Denmark introduced a so-called Fat Tax, a tax of 16 Krona per kilogram on foods with saturated fats content above 2.3%, but they abandoned it by the end of 2012 because it didn't make much difference to what people ate. I've just heard that the EC has started an investigation on the grounds that some companies might have illegally benefited by not having to apply the tax. If it decides this has happened the EC will make the food companies pay the tax plus compound interest. The Danish minister of taxation is flabbergasted and can't understand why this is being started so late after the event. He says it will be almost impossible to recover such funds from Danish companies, farmers, fishermen etc and will cause great administrative hassle.

[Stanley]

I agree entirely with both of you. The Tory actions and policies seem to me to be heralding a move to isolationism. Little Englanders demonstrating the 'Bulldog Spirit'. Totally the wrong way to go in this shrinking world.
I heard an analyst point out that the Greek Budget was now in surplus. The money they 'owe' is interest being charged at usurious rates by the bond holders.

[Tizer]

I've made my decision for tomorrow. I'm assuming neither Lab nor Con will have sufficient seats for a majority and there will have to be a coalition or we get into deeper problems. I'll be voting LibDem in the hope that it will be either a LibCon or a LibLab coalition and that the LibDems will be able to modify the actions of the main party partner. Also to try and bolster the LibDem minor party against the Green minors and UKIP minors and the effects of the SNP. It might all be in vain but at least I'll have tried!

[Stanley]

I think you are thinking on the right lines Tiz. Regardless of what all the 'experts' say, I think the greatest danger lies in a workable majority for the Tories. I shall vote LibDem in the locals because they are doing all the good work we see in Barlick. Labour for Pendle because I do so want to see the back of the useless Andrew Stephenson..... We shall see.......
Later at 07:20. I've exercised my democratic right and had a conversation with David Whipp at the polling station. He told me it's his 27th election so he should be getting the hang of it by now. I told him that Barlick is a microcosm of what is happening in politics. The Noble Lord stole the Pendle seat from Labour in 2010 by throwing money at it. Never acknowledged but he has done it again and we'll see whether it has worked this time. As for the local election David told me he had never seen the total abdication of the other parties in the Town Council election before, none of them put a candidate up so the LibDem candidates are elected unopposed. Richard Milner looks like a shoo in to me and if he is this is totally due to the Liberals active support of the town, that's the reason I voted for him. (Ask yourself why Barlick has reported the fastest recovery of house prices in the area) So, the local vote goes entirely against the grain of the rest of the country and the national vote depends on money and influence. I am making no predictions.... but I do hope the electors have seen through 'Motherhood and Apple Pie' Stephenson who has made no mention of the fact that Pendle has some of the highest rates of infant mortality and child poverty in the country on his watch. Look at the food banks..... I hope I have a good day tomorrow.....

[Tizer]

Statistics mentioned on the radio this morning. There are 50 million people in the UK with a vote. In the last general election the turnout was 65%, which means - if it's the same turnout this time - 17.5 million people failing to vote. Assume, say, 2.5 million are people who are registered to vote but can't do so, such as elderly folk with dementia etc, that still leaves 15 million for whom we don't know which choice they would make if they did vote. There are still people who say their vote won't make any difference, yet if that 15 million voted we might have a totally different political landscape. I wonder how the turnout will be today...with all the publicity for the smaller parties and the potential effects of the SNP you'd think it should boost the turnout. On the other hand, the electioneering has been so irritating and lacking in credibility that it might have turned off even more people and result in an even worse turnout. I wonder what the suffragettes who threw themselves under the horses' hooves to win vote for women would have made of the low turnouts?

[Tripps]

I had a discussion yesterday with the local electoral registration officer. I was surprised.

Me.- the election card has not arrived.
ERO. - Yes sometimes they get lost in the post, but one can still vote - just turn up at the voting station - you don't need a card.
Me - I suppose they will ask for some proof of identity.
ERO - No - just turn up say who you are, and you will be allowed to vote.

Thought - what if the card has been intercepted, and someone turns up early with it and votes?

[Tizer]

3.00pm and job done! Just returned from the polling station with good news. We always have a chat with the two registration officers and I ask them how the turnout looks so far. This time their eyes lit up and they said it's been very good, they're seeing people they've never seen voting before.

Tripps, regarding identity, did we need the card in the past or has it always been unnecessary? I was going to take the cards this afternoon but Mrs Tiz said we didn't need them and she was right. I can't remember, perhaps I've just taken the card in the past even though it wasn't needed. But now you mention it, like you, I'm a bit puzzled about how they can control voting without it or some other ID.

I also feel uncomfortable about the number of people who now vote well ahead of election day even though they aren't strictly unable to attend on that day. If something dramatic happens in politics between them sending their vote and election day then I assume they can't change their mind. What if their chosen party was revealed to be planning something nasty?

[PanBiker]

There is an element of trust involved when you go to vote hence there is no need for the polling card. The card is simply a confirmation of your inclusion on the register and a date time and place of your polling station. If you turn up and find someone has already voted using your name that is fraud and should be reported to the officer who will then involve the police.

When you register to vote (and it is now your responsibility to do so) you are included on the register. This allows you your ballots in any of the elections you are entitled to vote in during the life of the register.

When you go to vote your name is crossed out on the register for that particular election at the same time your ballots are issued. If there is another election called within the life of the register they will use a new unmarked version at the polling station. After the election political parties can buy copies of the "marked up" registers as this tells them who has turned out to vote. If they have identified correctly via canvass where all there voters are they can use this information in future elections.

Postal and proxy votes have to be issued ahead of the normal polling day as there has to an allowance for return of the same. Some postal and proxy votes may even be coming from overseas. They are collected as a separate entity to the normal ballot boxes and are themselves checked against the numbers issued. There is a last day for posting of course but they can be handed in on the day of the election but obviously no later. The persons named voting via postal or proxy are crossed off the register on receipt of the ballot. All are counted at the same time as "normal" ballots from the boxes. They are noted as what category they are by the returning officer on his declaration, i.e the number of postal and proxy votes returned.

The Returning Officer also counts the number of spoilt papers with no discernible legal mark after all the candidates have argued the toss over them. In effect they all get looked at to see if they can claim them as their own.

It is the Returning Officers remit to do all the checks and balances and make sure that the number of normal, postal, proxy and spoilt papers add up to the numbers issued.

Can you tell I used to be heavily involved?

[Pluggy]

I went with Stanley on the local election for the same reasons, I didn't on the national...

[Tripps]

"Can you tell I used to be heavily involved?"

Yes - and I'm grateful for your reply. As you say, there is an element of trust in this process.
I think it's part of being British - or is that a bit precious? Before I changed to a postal vote,
I used to hate the 'tellers' outside the poll, and usually had a minor confrontation with them, along the lines of - who are you then? - why do you want to know? - mind your own business.

I don't think anything has changed this time Tiz -the procedure was always like this - but it falls into the 'not a lot of people know that' category. Mrs Tiz is usually right though isn't she?

Last time I raised the matter of your vote being traceable back to you via the number on the polling card, and the number on the ballot paper. I seemed that I was the only one to be unaware of this, and I got some very dismissive remarks such as 'of course you can - how else would they check for fraud if necessary? I read now that though possible - it's illegal, so we've nothing to be concerned about have we?

I note that there has already been an arrest in Peterborough this afternoon, for personation.

Prediction - It will not be as close as the polls indicate. That's a bit Delphic, and I'm usually wrong in these matters, so feel free to ignore it.

Anyway - I've got the popcorn in, and a bottle of S. African Merlot from Lidl.
Let the battle commence.

[Tripps]

PS - I just had to type all that again since I posted at exactly the same time (6:18 pm) as Pluggy, and mine lost the race, and just vanished.

[PanBiker]

Indeed Tripps, let battle commence. From all the elections I have been involved with it's a long time since I have felt the need to stay up and watch the results unfold, we'll see how long we last on this one. I wonder if the record for first to declare will be beaten, I think it stands at 42 minutes?

With regard to giving your number to the party tellers at the exit, you will be aware that this is simply for "knocking up" purposes. Surrendering your poll number should ensure (with a properly organised canvass and polling day operation) that you will not be bothered after you have voted. If the campaign is run right you don't waste your time knocking folk that have already been to the polls.

On a related matter, I have spent a good proportion of the day on one our local facebook pages, Barnoldswick Talk. Helping folk understand the process and how and where to vote. It's amazing how many folk don't know what to do. Time that the political process was placed firmly on the National Curriculum along with basic life skills such as finance management and other basic but practical life skills. After all these are the basic tools that everyone needs.

[Stanley]

"Mrs Tiz is usually right though isn't she?" Strike out 'usually'.....
I went to bed as usual but I'm up an hour earlier. My impressions so far.... Jim Naughtie talks to much! SNP have wiped out the LibDems and Labour in Scotland. Not clear yet but the Tories may have retained a majority in England. Only local result I have heard is that Burnley has been taken from LibDems by Labour. UKIP does not appear to be making any great impression.
The big losers are the Libdems nationally, Tory and Labour are in a straight fight in England with the advantage perhaps going in the Tories favour. I am not happy... I shall put the Verdi Requiem on and think on higher things....
Ten minutes later. The Verdi was too intense, I need soothing so I have Mr Willhelm Kempff playing the Goldberg variations at 80 years old.
06:00. It didn't work.... I said a while since that I thought the tectonic plates of politics were shifting, last night was an earthquake but not for the reasons I expected. It looks as though the Tories could get an outright majority but with Labour and the SNP avowed enemies of the Tories we are in for a rough old time and it remains to be seen whether the Tories can push their austerity programme through the House. I am depressed because there is a good chance I could die in the next five years under a Tory government. (I told you I was depressed!)
08:30.... It gets worse, Stephenson has retained the seat. Only bright spot is that Richard Milner won Craven Ward in the local elections. I am glad for him he deserves it.

[Tizer]

What a mess! The only good thing I can see coming out of this is that Labour and LibDem will be forced to accept they are not up to the job and will have to re-invent themselves or be replaced by some other parties. UKIP and Greens are not fit for that job either, so perhaps we'll get a completely new party to provide some effective opposition to the Conservatives. The turnout was 66%, not much different from last time, so the number of people not voting was about 17 million. It would be interesting if a survey was done asking these people which party they would have voted for if they had been forced to vote; some would still insist none but there might be many who would name a party.

Our local MP, Ian Liddell-Grainger (Con, Bridgwater & Somerset West) got in again with about 25,000 votes, way ahead of any other party. At least he fought hard for locals during the floods

I fear that a big factor in this election result is that people have become more gullible. They're now used to being bribed by all the advertising and PR that goes on in their day to day lives and tend to believe what they're told, forgetting the old adage "If it looks too good to be true, it probably is!" They don't look beyond the surface and see the `cunning wheezes'.

[Tizer]

I've got the popcorn in, and a bottle of S. African Merlot from Lidl.

We'll all have to be buying from Lidl and Aldi from now on. Austery rules, OK.

Ian, thanks for all the explanation about voting, very useful. Tripps, thanks for taking the time and effort to re-write your `lost' post - I value what you write and don't want to miss any of it!

[PanBiker]

08:30.... It gets worse, Stephenson has retained the seat. Only bright spot is that Richard Milner won Craven Ward in the local elections. I am glad for him he deserves it.

Its bad and Nationally I cant understand why anyone would vote for the last five years (and worse) again. Looks like the Tories will end up with an overall Majority not requiring any support. BBC are predicting 329 seats.

Don't know where you got your info for the local elections Stanley? Count for that starts at 12.30pm today.

[PanBiker]

10.35 NIgel Farage has failed to take Thanet, maybe he'll shut up now.

There are many who are reviewing their positions. The Liberals have no choice in the matter in many cases, some very prominent characters are no more. Looks like Nick Clegg and Ed Miliband are required to fall on their swords.

It's certainly a game changer and does not bode well for anyone other than the better off.

Liberals will almost certainly survive in the Local and Town Elections in the guise of the Town Team here in Barlick.

[Tripps]

"Prediction - It will not be as close as the polls indicate"

A bit vague, but I think it gives me bragging rights. Not the first time that had me on one side, and the whole world on the other.

I lasted until about 2.00 am then went to bed and listened to Iain Dale on LBC radio. The exit poll, and the later update to it after a few results were spookily accurate.

Tizer - thanks for the kind comment - I have put it in my archive.

[PanBiker]

Just seen with the interview with the Tory Party Chairman that further boundary changes are now on the cards. Seats in the house to be reduced to a straight 600, shades of Ted Heaths 1974 rejigging for electoral gain, 2018, it's a done deal with them now holding an outright majority.

[Tripps]

" further boundary changes are now on the cards. Seats in the house to be reduced to a straight 600, shades of Ted Heath

To be fair, Grant Shapps did say that it has all already been voted for, in the last parliament, and will come into force without any further action by the new Government.

I think he said it's due to activate in 2018.

[Pluggy]

Farage has resigned (along with Milliband and Clegg), I for one be glad to see the back of him. I've no gripes with the other 2, I felt a little sorry for Clegg, he was punished harshly for the tuition fee debacle. I wonder how as the minor player in a Coalition government, he was expected to deliver on all his manifesto pledges. Tuition fees would have gone with the horse trading that takes place when 2 parties with different views attempt to get legislation passed. I thought the Lib Dems input enriched the last government.