OneGuyFromBarlick

hartley353 wrote:Measles is not a killer disease

It is for some of the people who catch it, whether you want to attribute such deaths to 'complications' or not.

Vaccination inhibits the spread of disease as well as protecting the individual.

People in this country have already been paid out for the damage that was done to them by the MMR vaccine. It was the mumps part of the vaccine that was the problem causing aseptic meningitus. Our government stopped using this vaccine and replaced it with a more safer vaccine but again the change was only in the mumps part. Many of the poorer nations in the world are still using the original vaccine with its added risks because it is cheaper. Can we realy trust our health service with continuing with the much more expensive one.We all saw what happened when the bird flue scare happened vaccine was sourced from any one who said they had it, most was of little benefit. People believing that a concensus of opinion makes it right deserve all that they get, no wonder they are described as sheep.

David Whipp wrote:

hartley353 wrote:Measles is not a killer disease

It is for some of the people who catch it, whether you want to attribute such deaths to 'complications' or not.

Vaccination inhibits the spread of disease as well as protecting the individual.

There was a period, not so long ago when every living person in America had developed and recovered from Measles, the average death toll from complications whilst having the disease was around 150 per annum. Most of the sufferers never even saw a doctor, it was an easily identifiable virus, and people took it in their stride, as do we when we catch a cold, but even the common cold has its victims.

So, "measles is not a killer disease" There's only one person talking nonsense here. I have seen TB, Diphtheria, Measles, Scarlet Fever and mumps ruin the lives of people I know personally. The risks associated with any immunisation are trivial when compared with the possible consequences. To suggest otherwise is not only silly but dangerous. It was exactly this attitude which spawned the reaction against the MMR jab and in case you haven't noticed a 26 year old man died recently from Measles and many children are ill at the moment and will carry a legacy of damage for the rest of their lives.Of course other factors govern the severity of any infection, the whole point of immunisation is that it removes the possibility of the infection in the first place.

There would appear to be a cluster case of people standing on their head and talking through the other end, maybe we could immunise against that.

None so blind?

Measles is dangerous but it is an eradicable disease and we could eliminate it as we did with smallpox. But this won't happen while we have people like Hartley encouraging parents to not have their kids vaccinated. It's ridiculous to say measles isn't dangerous, it's only the complications that can do harm. By this argument you'd claim that motor accidents aren't dangerous, it's only the complications (injury and death) that do harm. As the NHS web site plainly states: "Measles is a highly infectious viral illness. It can be very unpleasant and possibly lead to serious complications, including blindness and even death. However, it's now rare in the UK due to the effectiveness of the MMR vaccination."

Further NHS information on complications - and remember that when it refers to `less common' and `rare' complications they are still very significant for those affected.*

There are many complications that can develop due to measles, although some are much rarer than others.
Complications resulting from measles are more likely to develop in certain children, including:
children with a weakened immune system, such as those with leukaemia or AIDS
children with a poor diet
children under the age of five
Complications are also more likely to develop in adults who are over the age of 20.

Common complications
Some of the common complications of measles are:
diarrhoea
vomiting
eye infection (conjunctivitis)
inflammation of the voice box (laryngitis)
Inner ear infection and inflammation (otitis media), which often causes earache, may also be a complication of measles.
Fits that are caused by a fever (febrile seizures) are also possible complications of measles. However, the fits, although alarming, are not usually dangerous.

Less common complications of measles are:
meningitis
pneumonia (lung infection), signs of which are fast, difficult breathing, chest pain and deteriorating condition
hepatitis (liver infection)
encephalitis (inflammation of the brain), which can be fatal, so watch for drowsiness, headache and vomiting
low platelet count, known medically as thrombocytopenia, which affects the blood's ability to clot
bronchitis and croup (infection of the airways), characterised by a hacking or barking cough
squint, if the virus affects the nerves and muscles of the eye

Rare complications
In rare cases, measles can lead to the following conditions:
Serious eye disorders, such as an infection of the optic nerve (the nerve that transmits information from the eye to the brain), known as optic neuritis, which can lead to blindness
Heart and nervous system problems
A serious brain complication known as subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE), which can sometimes occur several years after measles – however, although the condition is fatal, it is very rare, occurring in only 1 in every 100,000 cases of measles

*The US Centers for Disease Control state:
Even in previously healthy children, measles can be a serious illness requiring hospitalization. As many as 1 out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, and about 1 child in every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis. (This is an inflammation of the brain that can lead to convulsions, and can leave the child deaf or mentally retarded.) For every 1,000 children who get measles, 1 or 2 will die from it. Measles also can make a pregnant woman have a miscarriage, give birth prematurely, or have a low-birth-weight baby.

In developing countries, where malnutrition and vitamin A deficiency are common, measles has been known to kill as many as one out of four people. It is the leading cause of blindness among African children. Measles kills almost 1 million children in the world each year.

At no point in my recent postings have I said that I am against vaccination, nor would I advise people not to do it. What I have done is give the reason for people choosing not to take up the MMR choice, and to show my understanding of their descision. As I pointed out our government had the chance to revert to individual disease vaccination when the first MMR Vaccine was withdrawn because it was damaging people. But in their greater wisdom they decided to continue with a multiple vaccine, this vaccine is still not proven safe. The outbreak of large scale measle infections was forecast as early as 1993, and many outbreaks have happened since, in 2008 it was pronounced endemic in this country. People are still not persuaded that having the multiple vaccine is safe. it would seem rational to me that the health service would have taken note of this and given people what they want a choice.
Now to diversify I would ask people to read what I write,and show due consideration to what I have to say. When challenging any part of it to take it in its entirety,and to not take sections out of context and treat it as a whole. As I have said before I do not wish to convert any to my way of thinking, or to change any ones stance on politics, religion, or aspirations. All I ask is for balance and debate. After reading Tizers last posting It rang a bell, I went on the internet and found from whence it came it would be nice to hear some personal thought and not the copying of others words. or posting of links.

hartley353 wrote:After reading Tizers last posting It rang a bell, I went on the internet and found from whence it came it would be nice to hear some personal thought and not the copying of others words. or posting of links.

I did not claim the information to be mine, and I gave the sources (NHS and CDC ). My objective was to give authoritative information, not mere opinions.

You are fortunate Tizer, to be able to sort the wheat from the chaff on the internet. it is not a place I would seek for factual imformation. Personaly I have been lucky in my life to have a great and varied group of aquaintenances and a smaller group I can call friends. A great deal of my current Knowledge has come from these people. Amongst these are two medical doctors, one hospital, one GP, and another a surgeon, we move in different social circles, but meet on common ground with an interest in country sports. When these three are together, and lubricated with spirit, it is a joy to sit in their company. They seldom agree on any topic medical so there will always be three viewpoints, and all three will be valid. Over the last twenty years I have learned a great deal by listening, or asking for an explanation when they techno speak. This is where I speak from, and find your offering of little value.

hartley353 wrote:When these three are together, and lubricated with spirit,

I was born in a pub 76 yrs. ago and in that time have heard a lot from " piss artists",

Bodger wrote:

hartley353 wrote:When these three are together, and lubricated with spirit,

I was born in a pub 76 yrs. ago and in that time have heard a lot from " piss artists",

I'm guessing that by now you are a very learned man Bodger, and well able to hold your own in the pissing contests on this site.

Troll alert........

I can remember having Measles as a kiddie and I was as sick as a dog, had a blinding headache, threw up for days and couldn't even stand up long enough for the nurse to change my bed. It was the longest fortnight of my life. I also had severe thrombocytopenia, which persisted after the illness. When I was offered the MMR for my child I had no hesitation in accepting.

Interesting report this morning about the danger of private schools in the independent sector being a reservoir for measles because apart from the fact that middle class parents were more likely to react against the MMR jab, there is no coherent strategy to ensure that overseas students are vaccinated. During the discussion some interesting statistics emerged about the uptake of measles vaccination in different areas. In Cumbria it is 95% while in Westminster it is 12%. Another good reason for living in the 'backwards' North!

There was a feature on the local news the other night about the current outbreaks. The medical officer said that at 95% vaccination coverage, the disease can be considered to be manageable. They were looking at the uptake figures for various areas since the disinformation which are now the cause of the current major outbreaks. Greater Manchester was high up as a potential for another major cluster of cases in the North of England.

Stanley wrote:In Cumbria it is 95% while in Westminster it is 12%.

Remember Tony Blair refusing to say whether he had his child vaccinated?

I'd forgotten that but yes, you're right, he wouldn't say. Perhaps we ought to re-introduce yellow ambulances for infectious cases and build fever hospitals. Even Barlick had an isolation hospital at one time on Banks Hill.



The Isolation Hospital at Banks Hill.

EU are on the verge of banning neo-nicotinoids because of their suspected effect on bees. Lots of controversy about this but one wonders how active the pharmaceutical companies have been in lobbying against the ban.

There is an announcement this morning that at last, old people are to be vaccinated against Shingles, the debilitating rash that can attack if you have Chickenpox antibodies in your system. This has been used for years in other countries, notably the US and from later this year 78 and 79 year olds will be offered the jab. I shall be down there as soon as it is offered to me, I've seen how horrible shingles can be. There used to be a belief that if the area of infection spread completely round your body it killed you. I don't know whether there was anything in that. (I should qualify in February 2014!)

I came upon an interesting tid-bit today in my new crossword book called Brain Power. It say that about 5,000 years ago, the cranial capacity of our hominid ancestors' skulls doubled in size from 600 cubic cms to its present 1,200 cubic cms. The reason for this was thought to be because we made tools and weapons, and needed the brainpower to make intricate movements. However, it's now been suggested, by British psychologist Nick Humphrey, that our massive prefrontal cortex is needed to deal with the many complicated social issues in our lives, from finding the right words at the right time to working out what presents to give at Christmas and which worker to promote, in the office. These are all complex issues far removed from the primitive requirements of hunting and fighting. Interesting

But, with the use of computers, I phones etc. we are not using our brains, so a capacity reduction is on the cards

"My brain is the size of a planet" (Marvin, the paranoid android in Hitchhiker's Guide....)

Yes Bodge i see your point, but we are also overwhelmed with too much information on a daily basis, we need somewhere to stock all that too.

Talking of storing (and distributing) information (data), the sales of high-definition television (HDTV) have disappointed the electronics companies but now they have yet another thing to try and tempt us and it's really going to push the boundaries in terms of data....ultra-high-definition television, UHDTV. Apparently each film for UHDTV will consist of several million gigabytes (GB) of data. To put that into perspective, my new computer from Pluggy has a hard disk capacity of `only' 1 million GB, so the first UHDTVs are going to be sold with built-in computer servers already loaded with films. Films will be too `big' to be distributed over the Internet or to sell on disk, so it's still not clear how an owner of an early UHDTV will get a new film. I guess they'll have to wait until the Internet gets even faster!

Another consequence of UHDTV would be the need for TVs with enormous screens (well over 70 inches) if we are to get any benefit from the ultra-high-definition. I read that most viewers don't even get much benefit from `ordinary' HDTV because we sit too far away from the screen - there is no point in having such high-resolution pictures if you're not near enough to see the difference between that and a low-res picture! It's a bit like people buying 20 megapixel digital cameras and then printing off the pics at postcard size...they'd get just as good a postcard pic with a 4 megapixel camera.