OneGuyFromBarlick

Sue wrote: ↑05 Jul 2021, 12:12 The idea is that we all take responsibility for own health and welfare . .

Sadly that will only apply to the sensible and considerate.

Have you noticed Boris Johnson's trick statement? He said that after opening up means `infections would rise for a while but there would be no increase in deaths'. He thinks the public won't notice what hasn't been said - that there's a heck of a lot of nasty and long term covid health trouble that you can suffer without actually dying

Big Kev wrote: ↑05 Jul 2021, 15:58

Sue wrote: ↑05 Jul 2021, 12:12 The idea is that we all take responsibility for own health and welfare . .

Sadly that will only apply to the sensible and considerate.

That has always existed I am afraid

Tizer wrote: ↑05 Jul 2021, 16:04 Have you noticed Boris Johnson's trick statement? He said that after opening up means `infections would rise for a while but there would be no increase in deaths'.

Is that no increase from the daily 20odd ? (Which I reckon will be 40 a day by the end of the week)

Sue wrote: ↑05 Jul 2021, 12:12 I'm afraid I will break the rules as and when I think fit after the 19th, I will wear my mask when I like and maintain distancing as required by the situation, anyone that doesn't like it can take a running jump......


As i understand it, it is stated as voluntary so you will not be alone. We shall voluntarily wear a mask in situations where we feel they are needed. There is no legislation that says you must not wear one. The idea is that we all take responsibility for own health and welfare . .

As Caroline Lucas, MP and some trade union leaders have said, the idea of mask wearing is to protect others too, can I take my responsiblity by demanding someone else wear theirs ? And sue them if I get covid and they dont wear one ?

Stanley wrote: ↑29 Jun 2021, 04:13 News from Margaret that Perth is in lockdown again. Laura's leave flight out of the Pilbara got out just in time to beat the ban on air travel so she's home.
See THIS report about how better face masks cut Covid Transmission.
" An NHS hospital that upgraded the type of face masks worn by staff on its COVID wards saw cases fall by up to 100%, new research suggests. Staff working on coronavirus wards at Addenbrooke's Hospital in Cambridge stopped using fluid resistant surgical masks (FRSMs) and replaced them with filtering face piece 3 (FFP3) ones in December 2020. They made the decision, contrary to official guidance, based on their own staff testing data."

Did not some MP recently make a statement that there was no evidence on the wearing of masks in hospital affected infections of NHS Staff, and that they could have caught it in the community, and not at work ( think he was talking of staff in 'Green Area' wards which were not treating patients with known covid)

"I'm afraid I will break the rules as and when I think fit after the 19th, I will wear my mask when I like and maintain distancing as required by the situation, anyone that doesn't like it can take a running jump."
I shall be doing the same Ian, changing nothing until I judge it right and I can't see that day coming for a long time. As has been the case right through the pandemic, a large part of the transmission and new cases will be down to the irresponsible and they are ready to run true to form.....

Had my 2nd Covid Vacc today.
All good

I though Israel had been fully vaccinated for adults, apparently, as yet, not. Trust that Australia can get a working plan (or a plan working) Cathy seems to indicate moving in the right direction.

BBC Reports Scotland's maybe more realistic thinking compared to the World of Johnson and Jenrick

"As the first minister has set out, we will have to manage living with Covid 19 for some time to come, even when we are able to move beyond level zero"

The key part being "manage living with Covid-19".

Good, well done Cathy. I hope it works and keeps you safe. Keep up with the other precautions....

Continuing from my comment above that `there won't be an increase in deaths' is hiding the the fact that there could be a lot of serious health problems short of death...
As an analogy, imagine if the government repealed the seat belt law and did away with speed limits on all roads as from 19th July and said there will be more crashes but vehicles have been made safer and there is unlikely to be an increase in deaths on the roads. Would you stop wearing your seat belt? I wouldn't.

I have to agree Peter. My daughter Susan has a rare condition which is incurable and is almost certain to be due to the Covid jabs and the effect on her immune system. Problem is this is not provable until a lot of cases have been investigated and understood.

I'm sorry to hear that about Susan and I hope it isn't too debilitating. Although it might be deemed incurable today, medical research is progressing faster than ever and it may be curable in the future.

--------------------------------------------------------------
The FT front page today has a story beginning `Business and health chiefs have warned that England faces weeks of workplace chaos with about 2 million people a week at risk of contracting Covid-19 or being asked to self-isolate'. And Sir Paul Nurse on Today this morning said masks should continue to be worn in shops, pubs, offices etc. I'll listen to him, not Johnson and Javid.

As we head towards July 19th (freedom to catch covid day) Here are a few facts you may like to ponder.
From the Government web site.

Latest R and growth rate for England

Latest R range for England
1.1 to 1.3

Latest growth rate range for England
+2% to +5% per day

And then remembering this. Where has all the R rate controls gone?

.

A good question Ken. The government has realised that opening up the economy might not result in pressure on the NHS or deaths so they are scrapping all restrictions on the economy as fast as possible.
Like Peter I shall be following Paul Nurse and not Sunak and Johnson.

Latest covid case data from gov.uk via BBC... LINK

It's all very complicated isn't it. When the government saw the possibility of blame in the early days they put all their actions down to 'listening to the science'. Now they can see the blame heading for them again in the shape of a bad economy unless they stop listening to the science. To a laymen, and listening to sensible people like Paul Nurse we should not be relaxing our guard. 60,000 at Wembley on Saturday and God knows how many at Wimbledon is definitely lowering our guard.
Include me out.
(Meanwhile, in another part of the forest.... Japan has banned all spectators at the Olympics.)

The risk of getting one of the side effects described in this article is literally about one in a million but I'm sure the news will nevertheless be used by the anti-vax lobby to support their claims. It would help if the journalists put the figures into context. I looked up the risk of dying from alcoholic drinks and it's 100 times greater than the risk of getting one of these vaccine side effects.

`Heart inflammation link to Pfizer and Moderna jabs' LINK

I read in Private Eye yesterday that -

"Covid deaths and hospitalisations will inevitably rise as restrictions are lifted particularly amomg the elderly and most vulnerable who had vaccinations last December and January, the protection from which may start waning after six months."

Not in the MD article, little medicine this week, mainly a continuation of the kicking of Mr Hancock - but in as the lead article on the editorial page.

I had quite a long conversation with my son yesterday, and we reached the conclusion that in the age of the internet it was almost impossible to find out what actually is the truth. There is so much information that seems authoritative and credible, but is false. I think that may apply to the above?

I certainly hope so. . . .

Tripps wrote: ↑10 Jul 2021, 10:10 I had quite a long conversation with my son yesterday, and we reached the conclusion that in the age of the internet it was almost impossible to find out what actually is the truth.

I totally agree. I spent more than a good few minutes reading the Government web-site on the current covid situation. The information was set out in paragraphs specifying a particular feature, Double vaccinations, children, various age groups etc, etc, on and on it went with comments that never interacted between features. I left the site with the thoughts that this had been done deliberately to confuse people.

"I left the site with the thoughts that this had been done deliberately to confuse people."
I think you are all right. Luckily we have such a good word for it, 'obfuscation'. Next to wrapping yourself in the flag it's the second best defence. (Come to think they are doing that as well....)

Have a look at THIS news of a possible link between long Covid and immune system disorders and a possible test for the connection.

Today's announcement for the announcement on the 19th should confuse the great unwashed even further. I don't believe all restrictions will be lifted, and rightly so. Shifting the restrictions from legislation to common sense will be the true test on the effectiveness of the vaccine rollout and 'natural' immunity, only time will tell. I will still carry a face covering and wear it where I feel it's necessary.

What catches my eye in Stanley's link and backs up Kev's sensible caution is this:
`Prof Danny Altmann, who is leading the research team at Imperial...said he was concerned the UK government's plans to "live with" Covid-19 could be stoking the next wave of cases of the condition....[and] amid rising cases Prof Altmann warned that it is not yet known if vaccinations will protect people from long-term symptoms. "If we're heading into a phase of 100,000 cases per day, and, we're saying that 10-20% of all infections can result in long Covid, I can see no certainty that we're not brewing those long Covid cases despite having a vaccinated population," he said.'

Shifting from regulation to common sense seems inappropriate when many Brits don't have or don't use common sense - more than five million Brits are said to believe the Apollo moon landings were faked!

If you want an example of how responsible some of the British public are look at the reactions to a football match.
The announced 'policy' is an abrogation of responsibility. End of.....
Like Kev I shall use my head. Not everyone will do it.