DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

[Callunna]

Here’s an interesting item from an email newsletter I receive.

The writer discusses a technique which had “jumped the shark” (a phrase I’ve never heard before) and says that this comes from the US TV comedy series “Happy Days”. Apparently the show was running out of steam and in an effort to revive interest, it had Fonzie water skiing through the Wisconsin desert where he had to jump over a shark.

Here is how Wikipedia describes it:

"Jumping the shark is an idiom created
by Jon Hein that is used to describe
the moment in the evolution of a
television show when it begins a decline
in quality that is beyond recovery.

The phrase is also used to refer to a
particular scene, episode or aspect of
a show in which the writers use some
type of ‘gimmick' in a desperate attempt
to keep viewers' interest.”

[Bodger]

I was thinkinking of the word "chap" ?, for a man, you hear of a mans world but no chaps world ?
this got me thinking of "chapped" ?, hands & legs, especially at the back of the knees when wearing short pant & wellies, my mother had a cure it was a patent medicine in a waxed tub, the unction being red and texture of Vaseline ?
I then thought of chilblains?, then finally " hotaches" this was when you had been out in the snow , when you went in front of the fire your fingers got hotaches?

[Stanley]

Webster says that the British dialect version is short for 'chapman', a door to door pedlar.
I hate 'chapess'!

[EileenDavid]

When being out in the snow never put my hands near the fire to get warm, mam used to warm her hands and then rub mine with hers. Cossetted wasn't I. Eileen

[Sue]

Badger I think it was germalene

[Stanley]

Germolene was wonderful stuff! (LINK)

[Tripps]

Broadening the topic to word usage if I may.
Have you noticed that no one ever says "You must do such a thing now - since that would be judgmental, and even perhaps even bullying. Everyone seems to say "You need to do something". That is of course helpful and caring - though the meaning is the same. Yes I know - I should get out more.

[Stanley]

An interesting point. I try not to say "you must read this book" but soften it by making it a recommendation. If someone tells me I 'must do something', I tend to ignore them.

[EileenDavid]

We used to have something that smelled like germolene but was made by Parkinson's I think in a red tin called germ ointment? Didn't slogan's on advertising a particular book say "The book is a must for this Christmas"

Must or need are we going down the politically correct road again.

Eileen

[Stanley]

Eileen, I don't think it's a PC matter. I see it as politeness and not setting yourself up as an authority. I always remember when I was an exhibit at Higher Mill when I was working on the refurb of the fulling mill machinery while the museum was open. I realised that I was getting wound up when people told me how well I was doing, 'well done' became a dirty phrase with me even though I knew that they were only expressing appreciation. I realised that the reason was that by saying this they were implying that they were an authority and qualified to recognise my work and give praise. I kept quiet but learned from the experience. Far better to say something like 'That's wonderful, how do you do it?' Conveys the respect but doesn't have any implications of superiority or higher qualification. Complicated stuff and perhaps I am too sensitive but I try not to do it myself.

[PanBiker]

Not strictly dialect but why in the USA do they spell "solder" as we do but pronounce it with a silent "L" as SODER?

[Stanley]

I don't know any definitive answer to that one Ian. Bernard Shaw said that we were two nations divided by a common language and one of the reasons is that American English is a direct descendent of 17th C English and retains many of its characteristics. The French dialect they use in Quebec is the same and the French laugh at it. Think 'erbs where the 'H' is silent.

[PanBiker]

They don't put the ING on the end either to signify what you are actually doing or as in use such as we would say solderING iron they say "take the soder iron". Word such as colour are still pronounced the same even though spelt differently, and I can excuse some of the different meanings that they attribute to some words. Sidewalk is logical but the difference between braces and suspenders I have a bit of a problem with. The solder question just does not make sense, if you are not going to pronounce the L why leave it in there when you write it down.

[Tizer]

When I was an editor of food science publications I got most trouble from the confusion of crisps and chips and French fries. What we call crisps they call chips, and what we call chips they call fries. One of Bill Bryson's books was very good on the origin of US words, they frequently being, as mentioned above, from old(ish) English or from French, Spanish, German or Italian. He also pointed out their obsession with `ass', as in `kicking ass' or `get your ass outa here', yet they seemed frightened of `arse' - a bit strange for a country that prides itself on the tough guys of the Wild West!

[Tripps]

Are you sure you are hearing it right. I find that as I get older, my hearing slightly deteriorates. I hear on the TV recently that we have banned the import of ashtrays from Denmark. That's curious I thought - I wonder why. Later of course realised it was Ash trees. I'm working my way through the music collection while there's still time.

[Tizer]

I get those kind of hearing mistakes too! The story was mentioned on Radio 4 yesterday of how Mary Whitehouse turned on her radio and heard the words "...tits like coconuts..." so she switched off and phoned the BBC immediately and complained. The man receiving the call informed her that "If you had left your radio on you would have heard the next words were "...but sparrows prefer breadcrumbs...".

[PanBiker]

Loads of evidence on Youtube. I have been watching various videos put up on different models of amateur radio transceiver maintenance and modifications. California twang to southern drawl they all seem to pronounce it the same. I don't think my ears are that bad. It is definitely SODER although I would welcome a second opinion.

Here's one video with an example or two. It's a long video but if you look at a couple of short sections at 1min 45sec to 2.00min and 43min to 44min 30sec you should hear what I mean.

[BBvideo 425,350]http://youtube.com/watch?v=U56M9Bm-QL0[/BBvideo]

[Stanley]

Have we looked at 'foisty' meaning mouldy? Heard it last night on Lucy Worsley's programme on Dorothy Hartley and it was used in Gloucestershire. Very common in Barlick as well so it looks like a universal word.

[Tizer]

Never heard it mean mouldy. Doesn't it mean `in need of a drink'?

[Tripps]

Only in the Bronx.
Nearest I have come across is 'reesty' which described your locker contents in the tropics after a few weeks neglect. I have an idea it may be of Scottish origin - pity Belle is not here -she was good on Scots words. Maybe connected to 'reek'?

[Stanley]

Actually I was wrong, I should have said it meant musty. Very common amongst the crumblies in Barlick.
Remember us discussing the local saying 'Up Dicky meadow'? I came across a list of names of varieties of willow grown in the Somerset Levels, there is one called 'Dicky Meadows'.

[PanBiker]

Although heading towards the crumbly state but not quite there yet. Foisty known to and used by me as long as I can remember, certainly in general use in Barlick.

[Tizer]

Names of cider apple varieties are fun. Here are names from this web site:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/scrumpy/cider/ciderapp.htm

Grown in Somerset:
Black Hereford
Morris's Apple
Chibble's Wilding
Streaked or Royal Jersey
Granville Darbin Red-streak
Hangdown
Lurley Bitter-sweet
Kingston Black
Red Cluster
Cadbury
Large Jersey
Sweet Reinette
Pound

Devon:
Hangdown
Greasy
Tremlett's Bitter
Ponsford
Kingston Black
Red Cluster
Pound Apple
Slack my Girdle
Sweet Elford or Alfred
Soldier
Tom Putt
Northwood

Herefordshire:
Bran Rose
Munn's Red
Cherry Norman
Old Bromley
Cherry Pearmain
Pym Square
Coccagee
Red Norman
Cowarne Red
Red Royal
Cwmmy
Red Splash
Dymock Red
Red-streak
Eggleton Styre
Royal Wilding
Forest Styre
Skyrme's Kernel
Foxwhelp
South Quoining
Garter
Strawberry Norman
Gennet Moyle
Tanner's Red
Green Wilding
Wilding Bitter-sweet
Hagloe Crab
White Norman
Handsome Norman
White Must
Kingston Black
White Styre

[David Whipp]

I came across a list of names of varieties of willow grown in the Somerset Levels, there is one called 'Dicky Meadows'.

Our giant lantern creators are rapidly running out of willow & more is needed for lantern making on Saturday.

Usual efficient next day delivery from Somerset Willow Growers in doubt, as they have run out!

We could well be in Dicky's Meadow!

[Wendyf]

I think we used fusty rather than foisty for something that smelled musty.