POLITICS CORNER

[Stanley]

Splendid post Richard! As usual I agree with every word....
I often try to make sense of what is actually happening and the conclusion I came to a long while ago is that the only place we can get any clues about the changes we see is in the rigorous research and considered opinions of the best of our historians. They get slagged off of course because they change their view as new evidence emerges but at the heart of all their work is the principle that they can't ignore new evidence and there is no shame in changing their analysis in the light of the evidence. This principle is so strong and pervasive that any historian who ignores the evidence is regarded as beyond the pale.
We have a social ethic now where greed is good, personal advancement is all, money is the only yardstick and the only sin is getting caught out. Add to this a belief that we are a special race and you see the roots of the deterioration we see right through public life from common racists, through industry and finance and all the way to the top in politics. This 'message' is reduced to the lowest common denominator and forced on those parts of the electorate who have been let down by our education system and have no capacity for questioning or analysis. Unfortunately they are the majority.
This is of course an elitist argument, I can see the 'truth' and the others can't. I recognise that but all I can do is stick to my guns and deploy my arguments whenever the opportunity arises. That's why I am seen as an Old Leftie because I admire the clarity of a German radical like Marx, recognise the egalitarianism in the original Communist Manifesto and wish we could bring back a modern version of Clause Four. It wasn't the ideas that were wrong, like most religions, it was what was done by flawed men who used the ideas to promote their personal ambitions. Think Catholic church, Crusades and the totalitarian version of Communism adopted by men like Stalin.
What we are seeing in politics at the moment is another example of the same abuse of power and principle.
But what the hell do I know. I'm probably totally wrong and a dinosaur. All I know is that the greatest advances I have seen in the lot of the common man came when we had leaders whose overriding concern was to improve the social conditions of the masses. Think NHS, Social Housing, the safety net of the Welfare State and then look at what is under attack. It will all end badly and as one commentator noted only yesterday, the next General Election could be a lot closer than we think. God knows what will happen after the Referendum, my guess is political turmoil on a scale we haven't seen for years.

[Stanley]

They must have bought some new equipment for the palace's official cameraman whose footage is shared by all the TV companies. He picked up Cameron talking about the 'fantastic levels of corruption' in Nigeria and Afghanistan in a conversation with Brenda and Canterbury two days before hosting a conference on this subject.... (Funny that the British Virgin Islands and Panama haven't been invited....) and then the following day Brenda was overheard getting quite stroppy about the behaviour of the Chinese on their recent visit.
I have no objection to this coverage being made public, God knows so much is hidden from us but what I do object to is that this is hot political news. There are far more pressing matters that the media should be focussed on.

[Stanley]

Cameron apologises for unguarded remarks about corruption.... Nigerian Premier says he is not interested in apologies because you can't bank them, he wants the UK to sequester assets bought with corrupt money and refund it to Nigeria. Right on!
Consummate politician and smart cookie that he is, Dave has once more blown it. It's being pointed out that in terms of the volume of dodgy money laundered in a country, UK is one of the most 'fantastically corrupt' countries in the world. Let's hope someone is listening and taking notice....

[Stanley]

It's a well known political fact that as a deadline looms and arguments get more desperate, the quality of debate often descends to dirty tricks....
We are seeing this in the US at the moment as the bottom of the barrel is being scraped to try to damage Trump.
Here we see John Major venturing down that road by accusing named politicians on the 'out' side of, at the very least, distorting 'facts' and using fear to advance their cause. My prediction is that this will spread and become even more serious. The other notable thing is that these arguments are largely within the Tory Party. Let's remember that this whole Referendum Bug started because Cameron wanted to find a way of appeasing the opposing back benchers in his party due to his lack of political nouse to find another way of controlling them. like Topsy, it has 'just growed' and now has become the most serious political argument (Not a debate) of the last fifty years. Whichever way the vote goes, immense damage has been done to the economy, our standing in Europe and the cohesion of the Tories. My prediction is that there will be turmoil after the vote and we will not see normal political conditions until the Tories have sorted themselves out. That will become the major preoccupation after the vote and normal governance will remain stagnant.
Overall, this is terrible governance of the country and is allowing the oxygen of publicity to some of the most extreme views. It's no accident that racism has reared its head.

[plaques]

I was reading that Jo Cox Labour MP is trying to stir things up again for Corbyn. Here is a lady that included Corbyn in the initial listing just to even things up, or so she says, and then voted for the most right wing candidate Liz Kendall. Then when he won she regretted his inclusion. She was either tying to rub his nose in it or she is totally out of touch with the Labour grass roots. A large dose of both I think. From what is going on we have a bunch of amateur politicians running the country.

[Stanley]

I agree P. In both the Labour and Tory parties internal strife between the opposing factions is affecting governance, in the case of Labour it is hampering cohesive policy making and effective opposition. In the Tory Party it is even worse with the Referendum split. Both driven by politicians more interested in personal preferment than serving the interests of the electorate. It is a disaster. Someone said the other day that they could conceive of no matter affecting Labour that Ken Livingstone couldn't make worse. This morning we have Boris comparing the aims of the EU to those of Hitler. God knows what depths they will have sunk to by the time we get to the vote.....
If you need any further evidence of just how bad governance is, look at the last budget, note the U-turn on Academy Schools. The failure of the legislation to enforce 100% attendance at school in the High Court because of bad drafting. A whole raft of 'reform failures' in everything from Teacher Training and MOD outsourcing to how major ministries Like HMRC, Justice, Education and Health are operating. Add the deliberate underfunding of everything from Local Government to the NHS and Welfare and then then ask yourself whether this administration is even competent, never mind fair and principled. The electorate is being totally ignored and boy are we going to pay for it.
I can't remember a worse situation and I have been watching them for a long time.....

[Stanley]

See THIS for a report suggesting that even though we have the benefit of the 'economic miracle', wages could be static until 2020. Add the effects of the benefit cuts still in the pipeline and it is not an exciting prospect.
Meanwhile, the interminable row and paralysis of normal governance continues.....
06:20. I've just heard a man who sounded very sensible commentating on the present economic scene. He says that too much crystal-ball gazing is being done into the factors behind the referendum. His view is that we should put all these aside and simply assess the situation on known facts. These are that global trade is shrinking as is UK trade, in particular the crucial construction and manufacturing sectors. No matter what the referendum result these factors will continue and what needs addressing is the high level of debt that is fuelling the 'economic miracle'. He points to fundamental flaws in an unbalanced economy hampered by non-productive government policies. It all rings true to me and is supported by what Piketty and Stiglitz have been telling us. Looking forward there is no chink of light in the gloom.

[Stanley]

I was thinking about the referendum 'debate' as I walked round the town. If you strip out the personal ambition, the internal division in the Tories and Little Englander DNA you are left with a lot of fat cats who want out because it means less interference on their route to profit and easily led 'patriots on the Brexit side and the status quo faction like me who can see the world is changing rapidly because of globalisation and we are better off with the devil we know, the EU which, for all its faults has altered the face of Europe.
All the rest is flim flam......

[Stanley]

Worth reading THIS account of Heseltine's criticism of Boris Johnson. I have no time for Heseltine, I remember him and the miners.... However, I have to admit that I think he is right about Boris who is often described as 'mercurial' but to me, looking at the evidence of his private life as well, he is chaotic and at times unbalanced. (Why do I see parallels between him and Trump?) Five weeks to go until the vote and this sort of infighting is going to dominate the media, it's good copy. This leaves the question begging, just where can the voters get good solid guidance on how they should vote? Leaving aside the knee-jerk voters, there must be some very confused people out there.
Adding to the confusion was the spectacle of Cameron Balls and Cable appearing on the same platform. When the 2008 crisis hit I said that what we needed was a WW2 style coalition because this was just as important as a war, in fact it was a war between the financiers, global trade and the government. Pity we couldn't have seen this sort of truce then......
Then there is the shattering report from HM Inspector of Prisons... Years of neglect and under-funding plus too many people being gaoled for minor offences....
Again, the fact that in the aftermath of Hillsborough parallels are being drawn with how the Battle of Orgreave was handled. It transpires that the same people were involved. Those of us with long memories will remember the failed prosecutions that followed the Miner's Strike and the harassment of leading figures who were the subject of investigations and false allegations, all of which eventually failed.

[Bruff]

He’s an interesting character Heseltine. He is hugely admired on Merseyside, where he holds the freedom of Liverpool and has an Institute at Liverpool Univrsity named in his honour. He is seen as not just the saviour of the Albert Dock (he was), but as a major player in the saving of the city itself from the clutches of the dreadful Hatton and his cronies. He will always receive a warm welcome here (about the only Tory that will these days and Liverpool was a Tory city for most of the 20th Century!) That era of Militant is not one many folk hereabouts look back on with pride. I do take your point on the miners though, hence my characterisation of his as interesting.

I don’t know what to make of Boris. Yesterday, live on a stump speech, he said the EU stopped us selling bananas in bunches of more than two or three (and then the usual nonsense about their not being bent). This is as we all know, a bare-faced lie. Let’s repeat. A lie. You don’t even have to be an EU nerd: the lie is there in every place selling bananas in the land: bunches of four, five, six, goodness me I wager even seven bananas! So what does this tell us about Boris?

Well on the one hand, perhaps below this bumbling, chaotic exterior there really is indeed an idiot, rather than the sharp intellect he likes to hide. A clever idiot, but an idiot nonetheless. Alternatively, he holds the general public in such contempt he’s quite happy to bark out this sort of stuff because frankly, we simply aren’t deserving of anything else in his view. He actually sees us as that stupid. Or he actually believes this stuff. Or…..he’s all three: a gullible, contemptuous idiot. And folk vote for him! The man is absolutely beneath contempt and as for those taken in by this stuff……..

Queen’s Speech today. British Bill of Rights put on the back-burner again. Let’s be clear. If it came about this would not be a British Bill of Rights. Current Human (as opposed to British, which are apprently different to Human) Rights are fully integrated into the Devolution Settlements for Scotland etc. There is no chance the Scottish Government for a start would consent to their removal, and I bet the Welsh assembly wouldn’t. Northern Ireland is tricky as the Good Friday Agreement ( a UN-sponsored Treaty between two Nation States) has current Rights at its heart and so this is a can of worms.

It would be a Bill of English Rights then then as opposed to British, or indeed Human Rights………

As an aside what would be a British Right? Or indeed an English Right? Anyone? Is it what Mr Gove tells me it is?

Richard Broughton

[Tizer]

He’s an interesting character Heseltine...

At least he has a better understanding of business and industry than most other ministers. I was once at a trade event held at the House of Commons and was able to mingle and work my way into the crowd until I was standing next to Heseltine while he fielded questions and demands from industry bods. He was quite impressive with his grasp of the business, financial and technical aspects and not afraid of putting people down if they made silly claims.

[plaques]

Or he actually believes this stuff. Or….

Actually Boris made an interesting comment the other day. He said that it does no harm to throw a dead cat onto the table. A nice diversionary tactic that gets people talking about the dead cat rather than the main subject of the discussion. So back to the bananas, even if everybody knows its a lie we will all start talking about bananas instead of the potential rip off that any new trade agreements may entail in the event of an exit vote. Boris may not be all that stupid but it appears he thinks everyone else is.

[Bruff]

Well yes. That said, I was under the impression from the Brexiters that all trade agreements post-Brexit will be knocked out in a matter of months to our absolute advantage without any detriment or compromise whatsoever; and our trade partners will be falling over themselves to sign off on the deals. The reason it will play out like this, so far as I can gather, is that we are British. Or something like that. It all goes a bit vague when you try and get into the detail with a Brexiter.

Richard Broughton

[Stanley]

It could be that vagueness which eventually scuppers the Brexit vote. Better the devil you know......
As for Boris, keep it simple... he really believes he was born and educated to lead and probably regards Cameron as an oik.



It looks as though I am not alone in suspecting that the descent of the referendum debate to the personal level is going to lead to internal problems in the Tory Party whatever the result....

[Stanley]

I see that Michael Gove was forecasting plague if we stayed in the EU. Well, at least the collapse of the NHS. How bad can the doom-mongering get?
Probably best to get on with life and ignore the madness......

[Tizer]

Another very important reason why we should stay a member of the EU - Austria is on the verge of electing a far-Right president. LINK Some might think that's a reason for leaving the EU but, on the contrary, we need to stay a member so that we have a veto on any attempts to push far-Right policies in the Union. Leaving will mean we have no influence and Europe could swing to the far Right or the far Left. Let's not forget, we might be an island but we are physically part of the European continent and separated only by a short distance of sea. In many ways we are not separated at all; what happens in the rest of Europe can now affect us more than ever before. It's no good looking west to America and pretending that Europe doesn't matter; we've got to face up to the modern world and look to the east, that's where the troubles lie but we'll have to live with them whether in or out of the EU. Far better to be in and have influence than out and have to take whatever comes our way. Having said all that, I've no idea which way the referendum will go. The debate on our EU membership is a complete mess and riddled with errors, misleading claims, threats and hysteria. Whose daft idea was it to have a referendum on our EU membership in the first place? Even if we get a Stay decision the referendum is going to result in a further collapse in UK politics. What a bag of nails!

[Stanley]

Exactly right Tiz.....
In the absence of grown up politics in the UK I have been looking at what is happening in Iraq. You may remember that I went on at considerable length drawing attention to the flawed 'reorganisation' of Mesopotamia in the inter war years by the all powerful British and forecast that one of the consequences of the modern incursion would be the awakening of old tribal and religious divisions and virtual civil war. I was told at the time that this was all old history and nothing to do with the modern world....
What little attention the media pays to the region now that there are easier and more lucrative targets nearer home suggests that I may not have been a long way off the truth. (I like being wise before the event!) The Kurds in the North move slowly and painfully towards autonomy and eventual independence. Baghdad is a hot bed of conflict between Shia and Sunni. No news of Basra which suggests they may be quietly getting on with surviving.
In case you haven't realised, these are the original divisions of old Mesopotamia. Go figure.....
One more thing, at the time Simon Schama looked at the history and forecast that Iraq would become open season for the threat at the time which was Oscar Bin Liner and the Al-Qaeda, now revised of course into IS. He was right as well! Another bag of nails.....

[Stanley]

The fear laden doom campaign goes on. Nuff said.....

[Stanley]

Only four weeks to go..... Career prospects for some politicians are in the balance as the Brexit campaign seems to be losing ground under the relentless onslaught of fake statistics.... I think we are in for an interesting time after the vote....

[PanBiker]

Indeed Stanley, the way they are shaping up it looks like the Tory party will collapse from within regardless of which way the vote goes. Impending night of the long knives? Someone from the boys club is going to get topped, that's for certain.

[Stanley]

One of the things that strikes me is that just for once, the Labour Party is playing some aspects of the 'debate' correctly. They are standing back and letting the Tories rip themselves to pieces (that's exactly what they are doing). It's ironical that if the situation was reversed the Tories would be hurling spin about internal divisions 'proving' that Labour was unfit to hold power.
Another thought that struck me yesterday is that there are basic flaws in the whole referendum process. Any rational person would say that what should be happening is that the electorate should be being presented with information to help them to decide. The first problem is that there are no facts. Nobody can be certain what will happen if we leave. What is being presented is an extremely dodgy set of predictions mixed with aspirations. There is no firm ground on which to base a decision beyond personal preference based in some cases on experience. The next, and in my opinion the greater flaw is the fact that because the original roots of the Referendum lie in Cameron's need to appease a large proportion of his back benchers, it is no longer a debate or fact finding exercise but a raw political campaign, a bitter dispute between two factions in the Tory Party. Leaving aside the pollution of personal ambition, we have sunk to the level of a particularly nasty political campaign in which the truth is hostage to spin. It reminds me of the Tory General Election campaign. Aspirations, half truths and what looks like deliberate lying and false promises. Add to this the negative campaigning and we have a toxic brew that can only deteriorate in the next four weeks. It makes you wonder what depths they will have sunk to by then. After all we have the astonishing position of Cameron accusing one of his own ministers of lying (Mordaunt and her assertion that there was no veto).
Even worse for us is the fact that the process had paralysed normal governance. We are watching the unravelling of historic policies on everything from Prisons and Education to how social services are managed and funded. Not wholly the Tory's fault but their responsibility because they are the party in power.
All the voters can do is engage in the process, vote for their preference and wait to see what the fall-out will be. It's a toss-up between an old fashioned political sticking plaster and a blood bath. A 50/50 bet and that's what the future of this country hangs on which is an indictment in itself.

[David Whipp]

Yesterday, I declared the Town Square a politics free zone.

Whilst in the early stage of setting up the Bands On The Square event, a provocative 'outer' thought it was a good opportunity to outline the 'obvious' merits of a vote to leave...

After that, the PFZ seems to have held.

[plaques]

Making the square a PFZ seems to be a little unfair on the good citizens of Barlick. After all the referendum is about how we redistribute the wealth of the nation in the years to come. Do we spread the wealth of the 1% more equitable so that they only hold 1.1% or do we concentrate our efforts into getting it down to 0.9%. I'm sure that the majority of the people from Barlick to Brierfield will be wondering which category they will fall into. Lets have a honest open debate with no restrictions thank you.

[Big Kev]

No one has convinced me either way so, at present, I'm in favour of maintaining the status quo. There doesn't seem to be a clear factual divide on in or out.

Confused of Barnoldswick

[PanBiker]

Yesterday, I declared the Town Square a politics free zone.

Whilst in the early stage of setting up the Bands On The Square event, a provocative 'outer' thought it was a good opportunity to outline the 'obvious' merits of a vote to leave...

That's not in your remit David. last time I looked we were still in a democracy which gives us all the right to stand on a soapbox if we wish and speak our mind

The same right that will take Sally and a few like minded friends down to Westminster in a few weeks to give some wellie to protesting about their loss of pension rights by moving the gatepost by 6 years.