OneGuyFromBarlick

PanBiker wrote: ↑22 Nov 2022, 11:56 the Octopus off peak bonus scheme

Plenty to consider there.

If I understand it correctly - they email you to tell you when the time period starts? You then reduce your consumption of electricity for that time. If you have electric heating then you put up with the reduced temperature in your house? If you heat with gas or a wood burner - all you can do is swich the lights off, and for example postpone the washing machine session?

They will then compare your use in that period with your normal use in a similar period?

I find it just a bit sinister that they must have a record of your minute by minute use of electricity to do the comparison, but that's probably just me.

Tripps wrote: ↑22 Nov 2022, 16:07 I find it just a bit sinister that they must have a record of your minute by minute use of electricity to do the comparison, but that's probably just me.

A smart meter sends data back to your supplier every 30 minutes, not quite 'minute by minute' but fairly regularly.

Big Kev wrote: ↑22 Nov 2022, 16:29 not quite 'minute by minute' but fairly regularly.

Thanks it's good to hear from someone who knows what they are talking about.

I'm still struggling to understand why they would need so much information, and were collecting it before this scheme came in.

My company just know meter reading at the start of the month, then again at the end of the month so they know what I've used and can bill me. Why would they need any more?

I suspect the final aim is to charge different rates at different times. Refunding a few quid to reluctant installers will get more smart meters fitted which I guess is the real motive.

That's enough I'll shut up now, but there's more to this than meets the eye.

Tripps wrote: ↑22 Nov 2022, 17:58 I suspect the final aim is to charge different rates at different times. Refunding a few quid to reluctant installers will get more smart meters fitted which I guess is the real motive.

Is the correct answer
There is currently a big software rollout to facilitate this.

Until the 'big software roll out' means they send a fitter to get my gas meter to communicate I shall not be bothered about any of these schemes.

I came across this company today whilst surfing. Quaise Energy Seems it's a start up who propose to drill by a new method which vaporises rock, to penetrate deeper into the earth to reach the high temperature sub strate.

Menton of "fusion" gets the cautious genes fired up and I looked a bit deeper. I came across this

"And Quaise isn’t the only research-led startup trying to develop new geothermal technologies. Several small U.S. colleges and universities are seeking new ways to develop green energies, such as Carleton College in Minnesota. The college completed a $41 million geothermal project last year, having drilled around 300 boreholes and installed 60 miles of piping over five years. The project creators also built an energy station with an 800-ton heat pump. Carleton now expects its energy use to fall by 40 percent and its emissions to decrease by 15 percent."

Seems there's so much free heat down there that we will all be saved. That's good to know.

PS If it actually works - and I doubt it will - the consequences of it will be enormous. Beyond my comprehension. Oil producing countries will lose a large prortion of their income surely. The Saudis might have to sell Newcastle United. Think about it - it's mind blowing.

David, From your mouth to Martha's ear. I have copied that to her.

The Quaise Energy project uses a gyrotron which was invented by the Russians. They also hold the record, using conventional drilling, for the deepest borehole, known as the Kola Superdeep and named from its location on the Kola Peninsula, an area rich in minerals. That was started in 1970 and eventually reached just over 12 kilometres. It would be surprising if Russia was not dabbling in the same technology as Quaise, especially since the gyrotron has interest for the military `Active Denial System': Wikipdia

The Quaise project looks interesting and has the great advantage of being able to take over our present power station sites. However, they will have to overcome a lot of practical problems and also a few dangers - there's a surprising amount of water deep in Earth's crust and sudden heating by the gyrotron would be like high-powered fracking unless the pressure at that depth stopped the water boiling. And the Kola project encountered hydrogen which was said to `boil' out of the hole!

Peter.... I had to look Gyrotron up (LINK)
I scanned the text but I'm afraid it's beyond my pay grade....

Beyond mine too! I think the gist of it is that a beam of electrons is passed through a gradually increasing magnetic field. This causes the beam to rotate (hence gyrotron), forming a helix which bunches up the electrons. The rest of it is beyond me but this is the simplest web article I found: Canon

Sorry, include me out!

The whole point of these 'non-commercial' bore holes was to determine the geological structure of the Earth's crust. The extracted cores were examined for materials and wishfully micro organisms that may explain where the oil deposits were coming from. I' don't understand what there is to gain after it has been blasted and cooked into dust using a gyrotron.

The Quaise project is about accessing geothermal energy, it's not for studying the rocks or potential biology.

Indeed.

Reminded me of this failed escapade. Borehole project Looks like they thought there was enough hot water down the hole for their needs and there wasnt. Makes me wonder how Carleton College have done the trick.


Thanks for the link -it took me to Klystrons a similar technology, and reminded me of matters nearly forgotten, from the Tropospheric Forward Scatter links which I worked on for a long time. Velocity modulation, excited cavities, wave guides. Water cooled valves - popping down to the local Dhobi for fresh supplies of distilled water - and the enormous voltages. Each cabinet had the nicely named 'dead mans stick' to earth everything before touching it.

I remember a warning of the dangers of Beryllium on the spare valve box, and of course worried about it. I don't recall ever having to replace a valve though, but I was right to be concerned, as I now find that -

"The work of physicist W. W. Hansen was instrumental in the development of the klystron and was cited by the Varian brothers in their 1939 paper. .[1] Hansen died of beryllium disease in 1949 as a result of exposure to beryllium oxide (BeO). "


I also worried about being exposed to so much RF radiation for long periods. I couldn't find out anything about it all so soldiered on. I think I have survived - though others may disagree. I consoled myself that I was behind the four 20metre dishes and not in front of them.

The Quaise project is about accessing geothermal energy,

In my view there are just too many problems in maintaining viable hole(s) without the sides being constantly crushed and having to re-drill them. Then the next problem is the energy used in getting cool liquid down and hot liquid up which will probably be more than the energy from the hot water.

I shan't be buying any shares,

The only thing that rang a bell with me in that lot was David's 'excited cavities'. I think I have a touch of them at times....

It's dead cold and there's no wind blowing. Not uncommon in winter as I recall. I see that wind is contributing 1.1 % to the current electricity 40 GW demand, whilst coal (remember that nasty dirty black stuff) is kindly helping out with 3.67 %.

They say they may build onshore windmills - reversing a pledge not to do so. However if there's no wind. . . .

Never mind - we are heading to Carbon Net Zero - so all will be well. It's Government policy and they're committed to it by the year 2050.

I heard someone say something very sensible yesterday about one of the best arguments for international cooperation (Like the EU) was the ability to easily install and operate inter connectors so that a grid with surplus could aid one with a shortage.
The thing that puzzles me is that we never exploited the assets of the Bristol Channel, Morecambe Bay, The Solway estuary etc. Did the wild fowl win completely in the end? All I hear now is wind, solar and nuclear.....

Blackouts on the horizon. Apparently the world cup is to blame. Not to worry most of our home nations will be out soon so we can get back to blaming Corrie and Strictly. Headline news is that our energy consumption has dropped by 10% the major factor being the increase in prices. Looking on the bright side if the energy companies put their prices up again we could see another 10% reduction. Panic over, no blackouts, well done capitalism.

Energy policy is a bit like the way funding is treated for all the other public goods. We live in the last chance saloon and have been doing for decades. Politicians only see as far as the next vote, things like an energy strategy have to be planned decades ahead. That's why we are in the mess we are now.
The worst thing about this is that when the day of reckoning arrives they panic and try to do something (anything!) about it. This is when the really serious mistakes are made that loom over us for decades to come. A prime example of that at the moment is the way we are investing in nuclear power plants built to designs that have origins fifty years ago and the ones we have chosen to be built by a foreign company, EDF, have all failed wherever they have been built, not one of them is fit to run. You couldn't make it up.......

Just Stop Oil. Terrible people equivalent to the worst criminals and terrorists. So what is it they are trying to do?

That the UK government makes a statement that it will immediately halt all future licensing and consents for the exploration, development and production of fossil fuels in the UK.

But isn't that what we have agreed to do to stop global warming. So what's the beef? Well our forward thinking government is issuing licences for further gas and oil exploration the very thing we have promised to stop. Meanwhile for good measure they don't want to expand on-shore wind farms that may spoil the look of their countryside.

We may not agree with the methods that 'Just Stop Oil' are using but up against a government that is totally ignoring the obvious what else can they do?

plaques wrote: ↑30 Nov 2022, 09:17 We may not agree with the methods that 'Just Stop Oil' are using but up against a government that is totally ignoring the obvious what else can they do?

Their methods are ridiculous, they should protest outside parliament and Downing Street instead of disrupting people who are trying to earn a living, get to medical appointments, school etc would be a good start.

Tanks in the Gallowgate Cattle Market at Glasgow in 1919. Brought in by the government for possible use against the strikers agitating for a 40 Hour week, in the popular press it was reported as 'Red Clydeside in revolt' when Manny Shinwell led his comrades in a demonstration in support of their case.
When we talk about protest and ask Ken's question 'What else can they do' let's not forget the lengths government has gone to to impose their will at times. Look up 'Tonypandy' and the General Strike of 1926.
The protests are inconvenient and damaging I admit, but so is the government policy they are opposing.

One of the Just Stop Oil protesters has been locked up for 6 months as 'a deterrent'.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... disruption

Holding a demonstration on a motorway is illegal and their sentences should fit the crime and not someones opinion.

An offence is committed under Section 137 High- ways Act if a person “wilfully obstructs the free passage along a highway without lawful authority or excuse”.

So far until Suella Braverman and Jacob Rees-Mogg gets their way. . Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and to freedom of association with others, including the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.


Just for the record Just Stop Oil demonstrated outside Downing St in October with the usual results.