DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

[Cathy]

.

4BF5027A-1288-415C-BC11-6974DC39325A.png

Have you heard of this one Stanley?

[Wendyf]

That's an interesting one Cathy.

[Stanley]

I think I have Cathy and I like it..... But if you go searching there are alternative origins, one of which is related to 'skewbald' used to describe a horse; ""having white and brown (or some other colour) patches, spotted in an irregular manner"

[Tripps]

Checkout "Stewball - was a racehorse "- from Peter Paul and Mary (and many others). There must be a connection.

Now seen elsewhere on another thread - "Belting job as usual Kev."

I would suggest that the word 'smashing' would do equally as well. The modern equivalent seems to be 'banging' or perhaps 'wicked'.

Times - and language - change. . .

[Tizer]

Reading a 100-year-old book I've just seen the words `..he wore a benignant expression..'. It stopped me in my tracks until I realised that now we would say a `benign' expression. It's the converse of malign and malignant.

[Tripps]

Times - and language - change. . .

I've seen a review for a Ben Brierley book which described it as 'his most pathetic yet'.

It would be mildly offensive nowadays, but then meant it had most pathos and was a compliment.

[Stanley]

That's a lovely example!

[plaques]

Dylan's song Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts made me consider the word Knave.

What does Knavery mean Shakespeare?
The noun knavery comes from knave, an old-fashioned word meaning "rascal or rogue." Shakespeare was especially famous for using knave as an insult, and knavery reflects this sense of a foolish and terrible person who's up to no good.

So who was the Jack of Hearts?

[Tripps]

So who was the Jack of Hearts?

Well that's kept me busy for an hour.

There's lots of analysis of the lyrics on the web. Look for yourself. I would classify it as an offshoot of the well known genre in 'American Roots' music of the 'murder ballad' . Much referred to by Gillian Welch and Dave Rawlings.

Like most modern TV 'dramas' the plot is deliberately made a bit vague, and doesn't always succumb to detailed analysis. I think that's how the target audience like them. and it's probably why I don't watch many of them. Compare it to 'The Ode to BIlly Joe'. What were they doing on the Talahatchee Bridge?

Then I got to Knaves and playing cards. I was reminded that I have an Italian set of cards - one of the very few souvenirs of my military days. Seems there are lots and lots of different regional types. Mine seem to be Neapolitan. Here's a tip - don't play with the locals at their local game, with a strange pack of cards. Little damage was sustained, and we enjoyed it though.

Talk of cards always reminds me that my young lad would have called him the 'Jack of Bushes'. Nothing I said would convince him that it was 'clubs' . On reflection - I think he could have had a point.


PS On murder ballads - Don't forget 'Unholy Moses' from Heather Sheldrick or 'Calluna' of this Parish. I have, and treasure, her CD 'Bernulf' by her group 'Now Then' which has one as track 4. here's all I can find of it on Google.

Bernulf CD (Now Then)

Here's a pic of the CD.

bernulf.jpg

PPS Here's more information on the matter than anyone needs. Once again Mr Google takes us round in a full circle.

Moses Cudworth

[Stanley]

I like your lad's 'Jack of Bushes' David. I was reared on chapel whist drives and played with extremely fearsome old ladies, get your trumps wrong and hell had no fury.....! I had no trouble with Diamonds and Hearts, they were obvious but Clubs and Spades?

[Tripps]

like your lad's 'Jack of Bushes'

Now you've done it.

I thought I'll get my Italian cards out and show them that in Italy a club is literally a club. Like for bashing people.

Problem - can't find them . I won't have chucked them so - another quest begins. . . .

[Stanley]

[Stanley]

A word surfaced out of my past yesterday.... 'thrums'. You've probably never come across this one unless you are familiar with the inside of a weaving shed. 'Thrums' was the bunch of treads of yarn you would see hanging on almost every loom. They were short lengths and were used by the weaver when she was repairing a break in yarn that required a piece splicing in to make up the deficiency.



A bunch of thrums on this loom during weaving-out in 1978 at Bancroft Shed.

[Wendyf]

There was a time when I did a bit of rug making and I vaguely remember buying thrum to use.

[Stanley]

That's it Wendy and I think it was a word used in the woollen industry as well.

[Stanley]

This caught my attention.
Venison: Middle English: from Old French veneso(u)n, from Latin venatio(n- ) ‘hunting’, from venari ‘to hunt’.
Then I heard this from someone who seemed to know of what he spoke.
We use venison to refer to deer meat but in the day it applied to any meat that had been hunted, rabbit, hare , boar etc.

[Tripps]

Very interesting to learn that.

[Stanley]

And I forgot rat!

[Tripps]

I just noticed Kipling's use of the word 'gear' quoted elsewhere.

That reminded me that I have heard the word was used in Liverpool as simply meaning good or excellent. I've never hear it used in that sense for decades, and it doesn't seem to feature in this google result.

Gear

That's a lot to read for just a four letter word.
* * * * * * * * *


PS Just heard the Wimbledon commentator use the expression "wrap and ribbon" referring to an earlier story.

Never heard it before - sounds American to me - I guess he was just "tidying up the loose ends''.

[Stanley]

A lot of the lads in my intake to the Cheshires were from Birkenhead and 'gear' as an expression of approval was very common and puzzling to me at first until I got tuned in to them.
Do you remember the malted milk drink called 'Milo'. That word was used by the lads to mean manky or bad.

[Tripps]

That's good to have my memory on that meaning of 'gear' validated - a good 'citation' as Victoria Coren might say.

Yes I am familiar with Milo. Not easy to get here though - big in the Far East. Sainsbury used to stock it once. Never heard it used in that sense though. Related to French 'mal' perhaps?

I've got a couple of anecdotes on Milo. The most recent one is that poorer people in the Philippines sometimes use it as a substitute for 'formula' milk for babies. That's a bit disturbing.

[Stanley]

I learned something from daughter Susan yesterday.... Talking about a young woman she said that she had used the term 'blended family' and I asked what that meant. Susan tells me it is a term used for a family where two people with children from previous relationships rear them all together. I suppose it makes sense but I have never herd the term used like that before.

[Wendyf]

On my walk this afternoon I was trying to name the roadside wildflowers as I walked along. After a ten minute blank period Knapweed came to mind for the purple, thistle like flower that is everywhere at the moment. Where does the name originate though? Knapsack too...

[Tripps]

After five minutes intensive research I find that it probably all relates to the idea that knob means head. and these plants have a large distinctive head. I'd have called them thistles.
* * * *
so called for its knobby heads, from Middle English knap "ornamental knob; bunch or tuft; a button; knot or protuberance on a tree; joint in the stalk of a plant; testicle," from Old English cnæp "top, summit of a hill," or its cognate, Old Norse knappr "a knob, button, stud."22 Mar 2016

lesser knapweed, common knapweed and black knapweed. A local vernacular name is hardheads.

Jack and Jill went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down and broke his crown
And Jill came tumbling after
Jack got up, and home did trot
As fast as he could caper
To old Dame Dob, who patched his nob
With vinegar and brown paper

and don't forget cribbage -

Where does the expression one for his nob come from?
"Nob" is British slang for "head". So "one for his nob" means "one for his head." On that understanding it makes sense that "his nob" scores 1 point (a real person has just one head) while "his heels" scores two points (a real person has two heels).

As regards Knapsack -you're on your own with that one. No obvious connection to head - and I've got the final set to watch.

[Wendyf]