OneGuyFromBarlick

There won't be a lot of activity in the shed today.... I'm reviewing my options and thinking about what to do next. There are always little maintenance and upgrading tasks. One that is on my mind is a suggestion Mick made, to attach a steel plate to the alloy shield on the back end of the saddle. This means you have a handy place to attach the magnetic base of your dial indicator. I think that's favourite at the moment but while I am doing that I'm thinking about other things.
I'm pretty sure that at some point I'll be making a bed with a target end and using my cylinder as the basis for a small horizontal engine. I say small but it will be about 16" X 6" overall, quite a lump! My head is working on the design, nothing committed to paper, but I have a fair idea of how to go about it. At the moment I'm favouring a fabricated bed. If I make the target end myself I can soon get the bed itself welded to it. I have an idea that if I speak nicely to John Ingoe he'll get one of his welders to stitch it together for me...
Anyway, that's how my mind is working at the moment.... One thing is certain, if I make it it will be a powerful little number with 120psi steam on it! No reason why it shouldn't run at about 300rpm... The old lads used engines smaller than that to run their lathes!

Stanley wrote:One thing is certain, if I make it it will be a powerful little number with 120psi steam on it! No reason why it shouldn't run at about 300rpm... The old lads used engines smaller than that to run their lathes!

Could you run it from compressed air?

Hi Stanley, Looks like your mind is keeping busy with shed business and general engine topics , I think that steel plate is worth doing as its is a handy spot for magnetic mounts to attach to. I did not ending up seeing John last weekend but will this weekend so have not forgot about the 3/8 die.
I am onto plan B with my backplate , I have found blank casting on Ebay so ordered one hoping it will have enough bulk to do the job. I will practice on the spoilt one to get my act together

Cheers Mick.

P, yes but not as well as on steam because you don't get the benefit of expansion. And you need a motor to compress the air.... Inefficient. Another drawback is that you get condensation and rust in the cylinders. More models buggered by running on air regularly than any other reason.
Mick, no rush for the 3/8" die. Will do the plate and while I am on with it will see if I have anything that will do for a target end. Once I've made that I will get one of my mates to find me a lump of plate thick enough for the bed. Yes, I've decided to make the engine.....
You'll get the back plate right this time and the practice will have been good for you. Bleeding obvious tip for you (sorry!). Set the top slide at 5.75 degrees and put the last fine cuts on with the top slide. One thou on the clock is one tenth of a thou cut. Use an HSS tool sharpened as good as you can and stoned to a very fine finish and put a chamfer on the edge of the spigot before the final cuts to give it a start. Keep offering the chuck up to the BP, that's the only measurement that counts.

First job was to find a suitable piece of metal for the base for the magnet. I've mentioned before the old cast iron cistern I found in a scrapyard. It'#s good metal and I reckon cast iron will be the best base for the magnet. Only problem is the thick rib along one side which was originally the rim.



I used a big three flute cutter to take the meat off and finished with one pass of the big fly cutter. Nice finish....



One side done, starting to get the meat off the other side. Once again I used the fly cutter for the last cut.



Then I trimmed the sides until I had it down to the size that fitted snugly on the aluminium shield.



Here's the result. If you're wondering about the invisible screws holding it down, there aren't any! I had cut it so accurately that it had to be tapped into place with the hammer so I decided that until I found any different, that was fine for a base. If it turns out that it isn't firm enough I think I'll glue it down.... I love cheating!
Then a good clean up. I have found a piece of metal that will be OK for the target end and the fillets that will go down to the bed. I'll mark them and think about cutting them out tomorrow....

I forgot to mention. You may have noticed that I used a different machine vice. It's one I picked up cheap at Williamson's in Oldham. Very nicely made it has a swivelling back jaw with different shapes cut in it and will grip almost any small shape firmly. In addition when you take the far jaw out it has a slightly bigger capacity than the Shipman's. When you see something like that, snap it up, it will not get used often but when it is, it's a godsend!

Hi Stanley , another thing ticked off your list , looks to do the job and if I did mine again I think a thicker bit of plate might give the mag base a bit more stick? its ok for what it does but not too firm really. The milling vice you were using looks like a good idea , I have seen the odd similar one on Ebay and thought they looked a good design for tricky shapes, as usual any i have watched have gone to silly prices , then they are not the lightest items to post either.

Cheers Mick.

I thought the cast iron would give the magnet a chance... I'm feeling guilty about not putting the original 7 stainless steel countersunk screws in but I will live! I think I'll lean surfaces with acetone and bed it on glue.... I'll feel better then....
Might write some articles today while I mull over the bed for the engine. I have the flywheel casting and a lump of steel for the crankshaft. The crosshead is bothering me at the moment, I think I'll do it the same as the Bancroft engine but keep thinking about a trunk slide....
Back plate?

Mo came with the new lamp to put over the Harrison lathe. Unfortunately he brought a single tube lamp which, while good, is not a lot better than the original. There is a shorter dimmer lamp backing up the new one over the bench and serving the VM as well. I shall replace it with the one that was over the Harrison.. Not a big job and that could well get done this morning....

The writing went well this morning so I got in the shed. The task was simple, remove the short dim light that was the main light for the workbench originally and replace it with the longer, brighter light that used to be over the Harrison Lathe. Nowt to it.... I know you must get fed up with me moaning about my eyes but my god, I suffered this morning! This is apart from the strain of working over my head which is bad enough if you are fit and young but is a bugger as you get older.
However, I got the redundant lamp down, cleaned it up and put it away safe in a corner of the bathroom. With a new tube in it it could be a useful light. I had already cleaned up the one I was to put up and found I had no need to change the wire from the ceiling rose if I drilled a fresh hole in the side of it to get the wire in close to the terminal block. I did that, marked where I needed my holdfasts in the ceiling, installed them and put the body of the lamp up. Next job was to thread the wire into it. That's funny, it's vanished! It didn't take long for my magnificent brain to work out I'd put the bloody thing up the wrong way round! This meant that my holdfasts were almost certainly in the wrong place. After sobbing gently in the corner for a minute or two, brewing up and filling my pipe, I took it down and reversed it. Luckily the manufacturers had made the holes for the screws symmetrical so it didn't take long to get it up. Then the fight to get the twisted wires into the terminal block, not easy at the best of times but worse when you can't see and the light is dim because of course I had the trip for the lighting knocked off. I eventually hit the holes and made the connections, put the backing strip back on, fitted the tube, put the trip back in and hit the light switch. Thankfully I had got the connections right and hey presto, we had light.
While the lights warmed up I cleaned up and put everything away and made an assessment. It's an improvement. The new lamp is a foot longer than the original and I installed it a bit further down the shed so the VM is getting light from two angles now and it's much better. I'd have preferred my original thought of a twin 35watt over the lathe but the overall result is OK because more light is getting to the headstock because the new lamp is further down the shop.
That's enough home improvement for the time being. on with the serious matter of making a target end and deciding what I am going to do about the new engine bed.....
( Oh, by the way, when I got to the sink to get cleaned up I found I had been wearing the wrong glasses all morning... My eyes are so bad I hadn't noticed!)

The job this morning was to make some decisions about the design of the engine and have a furtle in the treasure chests to see what materials I had. I did the furtle first because I had a good idea of the thickness I was after and the sizes. I have to report that I couldn't have had more luck! Nice when things go according to plan. I have all the metal needed and in the right thickness and size.



The next job was to get some blue sky measurements to see how it would all go together. Once again I was lucky, when I made the temporary piston rod for the cylinder I hit on exactly the right length for this design. This design is going to need a crosshead and slide on the bed rather like the Bancroft engine I needed to make some estimates of the length I would need and what space this would leave for the con rod and the mounting of the flywheel and crankshaft bearing. I can have a bit of latitude here by making the con rod the right length to suit the space I have. Everything seems to be fine. I have no doubt that I will hit snags but at the moment it all looks good and most surprising of the lot, the main member for the bed is exactly the right length and even rounded off at the end corners!



You know the way I work. My next job is to get some square edges and good finishes on the right size material. Some basic milling required but of course I have to hold the work-pieces. The big vice that Mick refurbished and delivered is just the job. It opens up to 7" in the jaw Not a lot of room left on the VM table but I got it mounted and squared up using the Doubleboost ball bearing....



Here's where I got to at close of play. The vice is square, I can hold my plates and I'm ready to start looking for edges and surfaces. All I have to do is check the speed as it was left on low for the fly cutters.
Very pleased, it's a good start and some clear tasks for tomorrow. Thanks again for the vice Mick, overkill I know but just the job!

Hi Stanley , looks like you have hit lucky with the raw materials , the old treasure chest has come up trumps yet again , I am looking forward to this next section of the build and should be able to see it better now with the brighter lights in the shed too.
I should be posting some Garage metal work stuff this week unless my plans go all to bits

Cheers Mick.

I think you've had other matters claiming your attention... The management had a meeting while I was asleep last night and decided to hold the VM at fly-cutter speed for the time being and get the clean flat surfaces before starting on the milling of square edges and getting the sizes I need. Sounds sensible to me.....
It struck me how well I spent my time firming up the foundation of the VM. When the weight of the big vice is added (I just about managed to lift it up on to the table!) there's a lot of moving weight on that bench! Onward and upward!

Cleaning the plates up. First light cut will get it all except for the low shop in the corner. No problem, we'll make this the underside of the bed plate.



One slow careful pass has done the trick.



Another slow pass over the top side has done the trick.



Next job is to reduce the plate for the target end to just over 4" wide. Set up and the saw is cutting smoothly. Things yo do so this was end of play for today.....

My first job was to finish the cut I started at closing time yesterday. No problem, a sweet cut and a nice finish. ThenI got diverted into vacuuming the chips off the carpet, cleaning up and sharpening the cutter.



The plate mounted in the vice and I have started the cut. The plate wasn't by any means flat and the cut soon got a bit too deep. With hindsight I should have backed out and taken two fine cuts but having started I carried on and it was a long slow careful pass but in the end I got a result.



Close olf play. I don't expect the other side to be as tough but we'll see tomorrow! Quietly away, we aren't on piece work!

The task is the same as yesterday, getting clean plane surfaces on the plates. I learned my lesson, sharpened the cutter with a touch more rake and a rounded point and took light cuts. Here's the back side of the plate that took so long yesterday. Still not dead flat, this is the first cut.



The second light cut got me to this, a good flat finish. On to the next....



This is the second side on the last piece. This will get split into two for gusset plates each side of the target end and the bed. The funny shape is because this the last half of a plate Newton made as the former for a copper backplate on a boiler firebox. It will get cut and shaped for the gussets.



Close of p;lay. I have my material for the base of the bed and the target end cut roughly to size and all clean and faced. The next job is to make sure they are square and the right size so I have a clear view of what I shall be doing tomorrow.

The job today was first to get the two main parts of the bed to match in width. I know they are around 4" but I don't need a specific measurement, just that these two are both the same and square with each other. The easiest way to do that is to mill them both at the same time so I took the big vice off the table and replaced it with a smaller one, speeded the mill up to 340rpm and got cracking.





That didn't take long so on to the odd shaped piece still looking for parallel edges.



Now I want to make sure that certain essential edges are square.



I should have done this piece while the big vice was on the mill but forgot, so onto the HM and under the saw. I couldn't quite get the last part so...



I soon had the bit knocked off. The other end of this piece doesn’t matter because it is going to be cut back and become circular.



Close of play. All the edges that need to be parallel and square are done. Tomorrow we have to do some marking on the target end because the machining needs to be done before I weld the bits together.....

The bad news is that I am declining the shed today. The good news is that my back is a lot better (I blame that bloody Mick and the enormous machine vice!). I intend to look after myself today, long experience with my old enemy teaches me that if I don't take an over cautious approach I can have pain for at least a month. So, a quiet day reading (with difficulty) Wolf Hall ready for next Wednesday's installant of the TV programme. I do not feel guilty so talk amongst yourselves for a while.....

Hi Stanley , sorry to hear about your back playing up but no good blaming me , you know I told you to enrol in the heavy vice lifting corse as I dropped off that vice You know your own back so resting will be the best bet, like you say your not on piece work so no problem Better safe than sorry. Hope it feels better after a day or two rest.
Shame as you were getting on well with the base too.
Cheers Mick.

Gee thanks Kid.... Good move taking it easy, I think back is OK now. These things come and go. Did a lot of thinking about marking the target end out. I have a clear plan in my head..... Will be in there today. The most common error with overhung cylinders like this is not getting them dead square and level...... I think I can manage to avoid this.
Later at 08:00. Just a bit of cooking to do and then into the shed for dome serious marking out....

Later at 11:00. I've had a good morning.....



My first move was to blue all me bits of steel and get some crucial markings on them. I know from my experience erecting full size engines that the most crucial factor is centre lines. If you're putting an engine in a building the centre lines have to be in relationship with the structure containing it but with an independent engine like this, it is the relationship of the various components that matters and in my head I have already set to most crucial parameters. The centre line of the cylinder is 2" above the level of the top surface of the bed. The bed and the target end have to be dead in line with each other so the crosshead slide and the flywheel bearings can be located precisely.



After some careful thought and even more careful measuring I had the centre lines and the outline the target end has to be cut to marked out and reference punch marks in the appropriate places for when the blue wears off. By the way, I used my carbide tipped scriber so I could get a deeper mark on the steel. They will be referred to time and time again. Once I had my marks it was time to address what has to be cut off.



Over to the HM and the saw. I wanted the plates mounted flat simply because that way I could put the mill an auto feed for the cut. Better for my back! I had to take the back jaw out to get the gusset piece in.



The target end is an inch wider and I decided that despite the risk I would put the big machine vice on the HM. Of course I should have done this for the gussets but was so involved in cracking on that I never thought. I lifted it on very carefully, squared it up and did the 4" cut on auto feed. So nice to have a smoke while it is doing the work for you!



Close of play. The main cuts have been done. The next matter to address is the curve on the top of the target end and the drilling of the eight holes that will attach the cylinder to the plate. I know how I'm going to do it.... But that's tomorrow!

First job was to poke a 3/8" drill through the centre hole in the target end.



I know I nag you but it saves a hell of a lot of time when you need a 3/8" cap screw if you have a set sat there waiting to be used. Money well spent....



The rotary table set up and the first cut taken on the curve with a 5/16" cutter running at 1400RPM. Somebody's going to look that up and tell me it was too fast...... I eased the work with some screwcutting fluid I've had for years.



I know you laugh at me but this was high stress milling for me... I was glad when I got to this stage.



I cleaned the edges off with a file and here's how it will go together.



Here's where the cheek gussets will go. This is as cut out of Newton's old former. They may change shape before fitting.
The next stage is to get the target end marked accurately for the eight studs into the cylinder making sure that the centre line through the cylinder and valve chest is at exactly 90degreesto the centre line. Then I need a register in the target plate for the front cylinder cover. Bit like making a backing plate for a chuck Mick....

Hi Stanley , more good progress in the shed , its really taking shape now and looking nice. One question I have I have noticed on the horizontal mill the saw blade teeth are cutting upward, sort of looking like they would try to pull the part out of the vice, I know they are not managing to do it but is there a reason for cutting up rather than down over ?
I have managed to get a blank casting for the backplate from Chronos but John has offered to do the machining of the register and threads so he can do a video and I am doing the woodwork for his Lister engine trolly in exchange , the deal suits us both as John hates wood and I hate that backplate lol.
I have plenty projects for practice on the lathe so not doing the backplate will not ruin my apprentiship too much

Cheers Mick.

That is a very good question Mick and I nearly did an explanation at the time but didn't get round to it. The Harrison horizontal mill only drives one way so that when you have the auto feed on the table it is operating against the direction of travel of the cutting edge. This is to stop 'climb milling' which can be very dangerous as the cutter drags itself into the cut and can be disastrous. I could have cut the vertical piece on the opposite (left) hand side of the saw which would have been a conventional cut. But that would have been a much rougher cut because the individual teeth are hitting an abrupt edge as they enter the cut. All milling is smoother if the teeth are entering the cut on a flat surface and not an abrupt edge. This is not usually possible because the teeth drag the table into the cut by taking up the back play in the lead screw. This is what makes it dangerous. In the case of my vertical cut I was feeding the saw into the cut by raising the knee of the miller which of course is very heavy. Far too heavy for the cut to 'climb', to lift the knee enough to make the saw grab. So I could use the advantages of climb milling with none of the problems. That's why it was such a smooth cut. Worth noting that there are times when a degree of climb milling can't be avoided. Look at the trepanning cut I was doing yesterday with the 5/16" cutter running at 1400rpm. Both sides of the cutter are working so theoretically they cancel each other out but because the cut on the greater diameter (the outside of the circular cut) has more leverage the cutter tends to climb and grab if you turn the table clockwise against the rotation of the cutter. You might think that if you rotated the cutter anti clockwise this would overcame the problem. That would be true if the cutter was always cutting on both sides, that is if there was always metal to cut on each side of the cutter but the cut I was doing had two entry points which mean that until it enters the main cut the cutter is only cutting on the inside. Far better to make sure it isn't climbing at those points because any grab will be disaster for the small cutter at that speed. So I cut it clockwise with the lock screw on the table dragging to reduce any grabbing. Sorry about the length of that but it's always something you have to allow for.
Funnily enough, writing this has made me change my mind about today's task. I was going to do the marking and drilling of the target end but as the VM is set for 1400rpm and the table is empty and locked on the centre line of the cutter I shall put the rotary table back on and make a curved edge on my gussets. I was so pleased with the set up I have in my head for drilling the holes I forgot them. I could have left the rotary table on the bed!
Another funny thing for you, as I was digging in the treasure chest for the materials for the bed I found two blanks that would have done for your chuck back..... It would have been more expensive to get one to you that buy a new one! Annoy John by reminding him of the set off on the top slide to give a tenth of a thou cut.....
One last thing, Johnny Pickles always said that the ultimate test of a turner was to make a small gyroscope. One of these days.......

I put the rotary table on the bed and got it centred and correctly oriented, found a sharp 3/8" slot drill, mounted it and then addressed holding my funny shaped gussets on the table. This took longer than I originally thought, I tried one or two ideas but didn't like them and in the end settled for this, the simplest and therefore the best way! I slowed the mill down to 589rpm and after checking everything twice I was ready to start.



The cutter went well and as long as I was very careful at the end of the cut where it tried to climb I was soon down to my last cut. I originally thought of mounting the plate on a piece of plywood but eventually clamped it onto the bed. The last thing I wanted to do was mark the face of the table so I used and old fitter's trick. Lay a piece of thin paper (Cigarette paper is ideal) on the bed and very slowly drop the cutter until the instant it grabs the paper and whisks it away. Lock the quill and you are OK.



Here we are with the quill set ready for the last cut. All went well and I took the plate out with just a wafer of steel left which was easily broken by bending it.



I did the same with the second gusset and did the whole cut in three passes, I was getting to know what the cutter could do. I did the paper trick again and got the cutter so close that the waste dropped off after the third cut.



Here's the proof that the cutter was missing the table by a couple of thou....



A few minutes careful dressing on the grinder and we have two gussets that are a pleasing shape and fit properly. Another small step forwards!

Hi Stanley , thanks for the run down on the cutter direction , it makes sense and I thought you would have a reason for it I have heard of the trick with the paper before but I would like more safety margin as could see the impossible happening and the table getting dug into lol.
Them backplate blanks might come in handy yet Stanley , .have you seen Johns last video ? , well my backplate is jinxed , he has also overbored the redgister , I don't think he knows how, anyway I think the plan is to sleeve it now , it will give him a chance to do another video anyway lol.
The engine base is looking good anyway , you will be having to chase your welder up soon Stanley
Cheers Mick.