OneGuyFromBarlick

Sounds right - who knows? I would associate it with leather saddles reins and whips, and galloping perhaps. Were you ever threatened with a 'good leathering' when you were little? never actually happened of course, the threat was enough.

Hell in a handcart is more familiar to me - I associate it with 'politicians speak' for some reason - like' ducks in a row'.

2245 PS - Stop Press - The Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt just said 'ducks in a row' on Newsnight. I rest my case.

Tizer wrote:Yesterday I described the swifts over our house as `going hell for leather'. Where does that phrase come from, I wonder?

It's certainly featured in the lyrics of "Rawhide"

Rollin', rollin', rollin'
Though the streams are swollen
Keep them dogies rollin'
Rawhide!
Rain and wind and weather
Hell-bent for leather
Wishin' my gal was by my side.
All the things I'm missin',
Good vittles, love, and kissin',
Are waiting at the end of my ride

source: http://www.lyricsondemand.com/tvthemes/ ... yrics.html

He's got his ducks in a row, don't trust where they are pointing!

The truck was boaring down the road, the train was boaring along the track, he was boaring along on his bycylce.
How do boaring and speed come together?

Might it be 'boring' rather than' boaring' ? Could be related to bore = diameter of a (fast moving) piston perhaps. The rush of tidal water up the River Severn is quite fast and also called a bore. Just the first reaction to the query - basically haven't a clue.

In that sense, like Severn bore Webster says it is from middle English 'bare', old Norse 'Bara', a wave. So something that moves with purpose. I think the most usual usage Cathy is thinking of is when something ' bears (bore in past tense) down on you. Imagine a wave about to break over you.

I was confused with the spelling - bores, boars, boors... forgot about bears. Your explanation makes sense tho Stanley.

The commentator on the Open Golf has just said - "With these modern three woods, the ball seems to bore through the wind"

Is there a closed golf ?

David, in the sense of to drill, Webster reckons the root is different, old English 'borien' and similar words in old German.

Complicated isn't it? I spend a lot of time conversing with people whose first language is not English these days. I find myself modifying my language to suit their knowledge. I find myself constantly thinking - will they know what that means? Their English may not be perfect, but it's a lot better than my Polish or Tagalog.


"modifying my language to suit their knowledge".

PS - on quick reflection - actually I do that with native speakers too.

Good point that David. I have been taken to task at times for using obscure words in my articles but have always said that it's a mistake to 'dumb down' language on the mistaken assumption that people won't understand. Far better to gently challenge them with a few archaic words.
You're right about our language being complicated, it is that which gives it the capability of expression in depth.

Bodger - 'Open' . (like Tennis too ) , refering to the competition Open to All ( poss subject to restrictions - entry fee , past performance or qualifying performance ) , Of course the R&A / Muirfield getting criticised for not permitting females to join the members' club. - they can attend the club and play , but only by being signed in by an existing member.

Opposite of 'Open' in this context is normally 'Invitational' where only certain players are invited to the tournament.

Two matters that entered my head. 'Ponder' the act of thinking, musing. And an old army phrase 'Stop ticking', said to someone who was worrying.

In my experience "ticking" meant complaining rather than worrying. I recall the phrase "ticking like a meter" in common use.

Lizzie, never heard that. Can you do me a favour and post in black text please? Me eyes are bad and I have difficulty with the red text.

Lizzie, I'll ask the same as Stanley - black text please! Black is black, on any computer screen, but colours appear differently on different screens so it's always better to use black for your main text (although there's no harm in adding a bit of colour in other ways, as you'll see when someone on here celebrates a birthday!). Thanks!

Reading a novel at the moment about life of the very poor in Liverpool 1937. Some of the females spend hours each week collecting rags (old sheets, shirts etc), they wash them in their boiler then rip them up into squares and sell them to various traders. They call these clean rags 'fents'. All sorts of traders would buy them to wipe their hands on after messy work eg: butchers, poulterers, fishmongers, mechanics, painters, farmers, sewerage workers and then throw them away.

Cathy wrote:Reading a novel at the moment about life of the very poor in Liverpool 1937. Some of the females spend hours each week collecting rags (old sheets, shirts etc), they wash them in their boiler then rip them up into squares and sell them to various traders. They call these clean rags 'fents'. All sorts of traders would buy them to wipe their hands on after messy work eg: butchers, poulterers, fishmongers, mechanics, painters, farmers, sewerage workers and then throw them away.

You may be pleased to know this industry still flourishes,but is no longer cottage size, I have wiped my mucky mitts on all types off clothing recycled this way.

Interesting Hartley. They used to sell the small squares at 3 for a penny and the larger ones at 2 for a penny.

Cathy, strictly speaking a fent is the end of a piece of cloth where the weaving stopped and there are loose threads and faults. Used in the mill as brats or aprons or sold back into the trade if it was a longer piece with a fault in. Old cotton cloth has always been used for cleaning rags and wool went back to the trade to be ripped down to fibre again and re-spun. This was the 'shoddy' trade. Biggest change in the cleaning rag trade was when firms took used rags back and extracted the oil from them for resale into the trade for cheap lubricating oil. In the mill we used soft waste from the tapes for cleaning down. I still have some. The last time I looked the price for clean rags and discarded clothing was about £600 a ton and it's been higher. That's why it pays collectors to come round leaving bags for donations.
[Funnily enough there's a news item on at the moment, a charity organizer saying that the flow of secondhand clothes is drying up]

So recycling isn't new then Stanley? goodness me

During my research of the family name, I came across a person who was described as a "shopkeeper - ferrets and sweets". I was quite disappointed when a couple of years later, I saw the original document and in fact it had been wrongly transcribed, and actually read - "fents and sweets"

Market stalls used to sell fents and the last shop I know of was in Addingham in the 1990s. The whole of the condenser spinning industry largely based round Haslingden was devoted to re-spinning textile waste into a very good soft thread used mainly for cloths that had to be soft and absorbent. Winceyette was one big market.