POLITICS CORNER

[Tripps]

She' mad - I've told you. She even passes 'Einsteins test' of repeating the same thing and expecting a different outcome.

I tuned in by accident to a different radio station this morning (FM instead of DAB) and found someone explaining what trading on WTO terms would mean. Very informative - though I haven't done the 'due diligence' on him yet, he sounds as if he knows of which he speaks. Ring of truth sort of thing. The guy is called Jason Hunter. I'd urge you to listen. I even registered with the BBC to hear it - something I've been avoiding doing for while now.

Trade on WTO terms

Skip to about 1 hr 20 minutes for the interesting few minutes.

[Tizer]

I'm not registered and couldn't view that video.
I presume this is the Jason Hunter: LINK 1 and LINK 2

I notice in the first link he says: `It is my feeling that when this 'no-deal brexit' is voted down in Parliament the logical thing for the Prime Minister to do for the sake of the country would be to go to Brussels and collect the letter invoking Article 50 of the Treaty of the EU stating our intention to leave the European Union and withdraw out intention to leave and make a request that the UK remains in the EU as a full member influencing and reforming for the benefit of all 28 member states.'

Tony Blair was making the same point on `Today' this morning - we should stay in the EU and use our influence to improve the Union. In fact Blair was talking a lot more sense on Brexit than I've heard from most of our politicians, left or right or none of those. He's doing the Opposition's job for them!

[plaques]

or the sake of the country would be to go to Brussels and collect the letter invoking Article 50 of the Treaty of the EU

I said exactly this a couple of posts ago but I can sea why Corbyn is holding back. As soon as Labour makes any noises like this the rightwing press will scream TRAITORS and blast off about ignoring the will of the people and make it abundantly clear that at the slightest difficulty Labour will turn tails and run. Plus endless other tangential arguments about black holes, money trees and strikes. Within 24 hours the whole Brexit fiasco will have been Corbyn's fault for not getting behind the Prime Minister and delivering a Brexit that works for everybody. By the way we shouldn't forget the £350M a week that HE has taken from the NHS.

[PanBiker]

When Cameron did a bunk following his faux pas, the new incumbent should have formed a coalition government to thrash out the deal. Leaving the EU and untangling ourselves from 27 other countries is similar problem to fighting a war. You need a consensus from all sides throughout the process to ensure any kind of success. It was doomed to fail when TM went her own way, said so at the time and have been proved correct, poison chalice from the get go if going it alone. Back out, doff caps etc and if they want another go at it in the future do it properly next time. Can't change anything without being a member so a stupid idea in the first place.

[Tripps]

I haven't done the 'due diligence' on him yet,

Yes that's him - looks like he's given that presentation quite a few times, and I think he's a bit too fond of saying how expert he is though his level of detailed knowledge about WTO terms impressed me. Up there with Richard.

Someone pointed out recently that in fact we had quite a good deal already with the EU. We keep the pound so can control its competitiveness, we are not in Schengen Area, so we have more 'control of our borders' and we get a sizeable rebate - that was thanks to Mrs Thatcher I believe.

It's certainly a mess at the moment.

[Stanley]

P and Ian are dead right. P in particular has put his finger on what the rabid right wing press would do.
Mind you, I have an idea I have heard some Tories getting very close to the idea.
I agree with David, T May has lost the plot, has started parroting again and it all sounds like her election victory.... only logical conclusion is that she is either badly advised or thick. (She could of course be simply barking mad....)
What strikes me is that the EU are totally baffled as to why she is ignoring what they say and going back and asking for the impossible. Any good will we had is now totally shot.

[Tizer]

`Any good will we had is now totally shot.' Yep, back to `Perfidious Albion'.

[PanBiker]

Makes you wonder what's left of the dead Belgian horse? She's been back so many times flogging it.

[Stanley]

Notice that nobody has asked for the House to sit in continuous session until this matter is decided. They will still all bugger off home for Xmas.....
Later, Just when it is obvious that what is needed now is cooperation and understanding in order to find a formula that can pass a vote in the Commons T May attacks T Blair using quite ridiculous language. Getting on her high horse doesn't adequately describe it. Someone should take her on one side and explain to her about real life, the way she is acting demonstrates that she is totally blinkered and is going to stick to the mantra of this is the only deal. There has got to be a serous backlash!!

[plaques]

...cooperation and understanding in order to find a formula that can pass a vote in the Commons T May attacks T Blair using quite ridiculous language.

Amber Rudd is also quoted as 'MPs across the parties should try to "forge a consensus" over Brexit, the work and pensions secretary has said.' This is what PanBiker has been saying from the start of the Brexit negotiations but in Mrs May's eyes this is equivalent to doing a deal with the devil. Link. T Blair was NEW (small con) Labour just think of the reaction if Corbyn had suggested it? Mrs May took the job when nobody else in the Tory party wanted it, she has failed and its time for her to go before the country drops into the abyss of a No Deal, No Trade existence.

[Tizer]

Notice that nobody has asked for the House to sit in continuous session until this matter is decided.

The LibDems pressed for it - but they're a it short of numbers to have much effect these days!

...T May attacks T Blair using quite ridiculous language.

Yes, including saying MPs should not "abdicate responsibility" to deliver Brexit by holding a new poll. She's being hypocritical - Parliament abdicated responsibility by holding a referendum on such a critical issue in the first place.

Amber Rudd is also quoted as 'MPs across the parties should try to "forge a consensus" over Brexit, the work and pensions secretary has said.' This is what PanBiker has been saying from the start of the Brexit negotiations..

And Stanley has been saying since the outset that a coalition of parties should have been formed to deal with Brexit.

[PanBiker]

In 1939 when war broke out it was recognised that in order to operate efficiently the government needed the best from every party. Hence the war coalition, guess what, it worked and kept the country fed, industry at maximum capacity, full employment one way or the other for the civilian population. At the end of hostilities it was recognised also that a general election was needed. The resultant Labour Government used a lot of the lessons learned during the hostilities to produce the welfare state and the NHS. The problems we faced with extricating ourselves from 40 odd years as member of the EU were similar from a constitutional and practical point of view, the agreement could have been thrashed about in parliament over the last two years and a consensus arrived at, the only sensible way to go about it. I suppose that's the problem, it was too sensible, another case of not learning from history.

[Tripps]

I think Chinatyke has advocated such a system, perhaps indirectly, by saying how good it is not to have constant political arguments about how to run the country. Seems to work for him.


A recent survey asked :-
What is the wooden object, brought out in Downing Street, when the PM makes a statement?

Result

6% A lectern

94% Theresa May.

[Stanley]

I like that David!
Quite right, I have always advocated a government of national unity to deal with what is, in effect, a war situation. What many suspect, and I think it may be true, is that May and her advisers are working a cunning wheeze, keep being bloody difficult and stubborn until there is no time to do anything and time pressures solve the Parliamentary deadlock. We need a Commons revolt before Xmas!! How about a motion for the vote immediately? Better still, send the letter cancelling our intention to leave....
Later, I see that May is to warn that a second vote would be a sign that democracy has failed. Hasn't she realised yet that her version of 'democracy', a Tory Party led management of Brexit, has already failed? This woman has to be brought to reality.

[PanBiker]

She's intending to filibuster again today by debating a potential second vote instead of moving to the first one one her plan. Like you say, time wasting. I wonder what Mr Bercow will say, she has already been warned about frustrating parliament, we can but live in hope.

[Tizer]

I think she knows it's going to end up being another referendum but she's pretending to be all against it so she can say later that it was forced on her by the public and `it would be undemocratic to refuse them an opportunity to express their view'.

[Tripps]

If you accept that Theresa may has no intention whatever of implementing the referendum vote - all becomes clear. Judge her actions, not her words.

Paradoxically the DUP hold the balance of power, yet there has been no Government in N.Ireland for over a year now. They can't run their own province (OK Richard?), yet are setting the agenda here. I watched the Stormont proceedings concerning the Renewable Heat Incentive, and thought that Arlene Foster would be in court soon afterwqrds followed probably by prison.

Hasn't happened - yet.

[Tizer]

Calm down dearies, Brexit is all going be sorted out now - Santa Claus, aka David Cameron, has been in touch with Mrs May and given her a present of his special plan.

[Stanley]

I saw that as well! The idea of him advising May is surreal....
Is Jeremy at last taking action? May says that attacking her is an example of 'political games'. What the hell is she doing then? The longer she can preserve stasis in the House the longer she survives (and her Party), I really do think this is a factor. For the last two and a half years Brexit has been a Tory Project, not a national debate. Once Cameron had set his catastrophe in motion this was the single biggest mistake Parliament made, letting them get away with it. Can you imagine this management style during WW2?
During the process we have been brainwashed into lying supine under a hail of ambiguity and downright lies and that's what is at work now. We are numb!
Someone once said that we get the government we deserve, I have to admit that's probably correct. In the last analysis, we are to blame, we let them get away with it. We need an earthquake this week!

[plaques]

President Trump being proud to shut the American economy down to get his Mexican wall built. Immigration from Mexico is a long running saga. "No wall can be high enough or long enough to keep poor people out trying to improve their lives." Who said this? President G W Bush.

Meanwhile at home. Corbyn tables a motion of No Confidence in the Prime Minister. Mrs May in turn totally ignores the motion not giving it Parliamentary time. Only a No Confidence in the Government is compulsory. The Tories have until 2022 before the next general election. With their MP's watching their pensions and the DUP getting handouts which would disappear under Labour she should survive such a vote. And as for the rest of us "Tough".

[PanBiker]

Today the Tory cabinet launches a £2 billion, what is in effect "Project Fear", planning for a No Deal Brexit scenario which I suppose is a requirement in the present shambles. Not helped by the stalling tactics of May with her "only deal". Something for them all to dwell on as they take their fortnight off while businesses go to the wall and the rest of us vex about the future. In all probability it will do what is required and may increase the popularity of "the deal" when they eventually get to vote on it. Nice timing, last cabinet meeting before they all bugger off, bloody disgraceful.

[Tripps]

Nice timing, last cabinet meeting before they all bugger off, bloody disgraceful.

I don't always agree with you Ian, but I'm with you there.

I watched Mrs May continue her Geoffrey Boycott impersonation yesterday in the House. Another two hour plus, straight bat session to add to her CV, - no one landed a blow.

Labour are no better - I know Guido is not well received here, but this iGuido on Corbyn is worth a look.


4.00 pm. PS - The SNP seem have managed to continue the saga by obtaining an 'emergency debate' which is on now. Not sure what difference it'll make though. Just more of the same.

[Tizer]

I note the final comment in the Guido article: `Particularly with the Blairites spying it as a potential opportunity to finally jump ship and turn the People’s Vote campaign into their new third party…' - and they might take the young voters with them too.

Breaking news on the BBC...
`Trump's embattled foundation to shut down' LINK
US President Donald Trump's troubled charity foundation is to close down amid allegations that he misused its funds. The move comes after a deal reached with the attorney general of New York State, Barbara Underwood, who will supervise the distribution of its remaining monies. She has accused Mr Trump and family members of using it for private and political gain. The case against them will continue. Mrs Underwood said: "This is an important victory for the rule of law. There is one set of rules for everyone. "We'll continue to move our suit forward to ensure that the Trump Foundation and its directors are held accountable for their clear and repeated violations of state and federal law." Mr Trump has yet to comment.'

[Stanley]

I think you have all summed it up nicely.
What strikes me about the economics of the situation is that this is the first time I can remember a political party taking decisions that can do nothing but harm us. The Tories (Friends of Business and Trustworthy with money) have got us into a situation where no matter what transpires, we head straight into a recession and most likely a depression that is comparable to the late 1920s when they pursued to mythical goal of 'Sound Money'.
As for Guido.... What I am looking for here isn't passionate dogma, no matter how well constructed or presented but objective dispassionate reporting that concentrates on the plain facts.
Our present problems in Parliament are all caused by people who believe they are right and follow their personal agenda, and yes, in some cases it is as mundane as their pension plan. The plain fact is that we have lost almost all principled argument and ethics in this debate. The really important matters like poverty, homelessness and lack of personal security in families gallop on without restraint or any form of practical recognition. Ordinary victims of circumstance are dying of exposure on the streets and are being ignored. Local government, public services, Education and the justice system are wasting away because of interference and cutting of central government funding. Vanity projects like Cross Rail, HS2 and Hinkley Point have funds poured into them based on dodgy planning and flawed contracts. Like PFI, the bills will come in later....
I could go on.... We are living in a country broken by mismanagement and a flawed political system bolstered by Right wing media who care nothing for anything that hasn't a profit in it and to me it stinks of corruption.
As for Trump..... The man is a crook and a liar and he has managed a situation where half the voters see this as the norm. Perhaps we need a greater catastrophe to break this shameful hold over us.

[Tizer]

I agree with everything Stanley says in the post immediately above but I would add, from a politically independent point of view, that matters are made much worse by the only major opposition party being itself divided and with a leader who doesn't want to engage with much of the population.