OneGuyFromBarlick

A: No, but another bung might. I doubt it myself as nothing has changed but we all know that money corrupts.

Interesting to note that it was Hammond last night stating that the deal wouldn't come back to parliament on Tuesday if she diddn't have the numbers and was destined to fail.

I sit listening to Jeremy Vine discussing whether it is their patriotic duty to vote for Mrs Mays' deal. Twice Parliament has decided that the deal is a bad deal and it will remain so on the third time of presentation. Surely it is Mrs May's patriotic duty to negotiate a better deal. Collectively Parliament should be able to arrive at a sensible solution. But as we all know this it not about doing the best for the country but about holding the Tory Party together.

As Vince Cable keeps pointing out, the best deal is the one we already have.

Bercow has just upset the apple cart. Unless Mrs May's deal is substantially different from the last time it was offered up he will stop the motion being presented. Jeremy Hunt had said that unless the motion had any chance of passing it wouldn't be presented. It looks like all the arm twisting and possible sweeteners has been for nothing. Of course we shall now hear that Bercow is stopping democracy and its all his fault when the country goes belly up.

Beat me to it P, just as I predicted a few posts ago. It's all in the rules, pity TM doesn't know them or if she does, shows she is prepared to bend them to her own ends.

Sometimes he invokes Erskine May and precedent, and sometimes he ignores them.

Kate Hoey Labour Vauxhall
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Obviously we fully endorse and respect your statement. On a point of clarification, I want to ask something that I am sure people out there will be asking when they read this statement today. On 29 January, the House of Commons voted against the SNP and Plaid Cymru amendment on extending the article 50 period and ruling out no deal by 327 votes to 39. We obviously voted again on those matters last week. Will you clarify why that did not fall under the same ruling?


Mr Speaker:
I would have to look back at those particular votes. I did not receive advice at that time about non-compliance. I do not think that there was a general sense in the House that there was an issue of non-compliance, and I was not asked to rule on it. Matters are already treated of by the Table Office on the basis of established custom and practice. If those matters were accepted on to the paper, the issue of selection would have been for me, in the interests of facilitating the debate. However, the issue of propriety was not raised with me at that time.


PS: Stanley asked about this last week - Found this somewhere - not checked at all - and not sure it has any significance.

Later - I've been trying to 'stand this up' but have not been able to find any supporting evidence at all. I guess its probably not true. But . . . .I'd like it to be.

Thomas Erskine May is the great, great grandfather of PM's husband Philip May. He was the 1st Baron Farnborough which is less than 25 miles from PM's home in Maidenhead.

I suggest a new anthem which Mr Speaker should sing daily: Stuck in the middle with you - Stealers Wheel.

Clowns to the left of me
Jokers to the right
Here I am...

https://www.lyricsfreak.com/s/stealers+ ... 12787.html

I noted that the egregious Angela Ledsom put the boot in immediately after Bercow did his job properly accusing him of 'disrespect'. The disrespect here is May trying to blackmail Parliament with ten days to go before Der Tag.
May will have to go to Brussels and ask for more time and they will put a long date on it locking us into an EU election. This probably means the end of Brexit as we know it. Remember that the default position is No Deal and the EU doesn't want that. The only saviour for her is a last minute cave-in by Brussels.
Everything depends now on levels of exasperation and frustration both here and in Europe. We are in a hair trigger situation and the end is impossible to forecast, even by Downing Street.This is the worst of all possible worlds.

I actually heard one Tory minister this morning call foul by way of the Speakers ruling causing a Constitutional crisis! Does he not realise that we don't have a Constitution so it can't be cast into crisis. What we do have is a rule book and one that tends to work in the main. Another argument put forward is that Mr Bercow is using an archaic 17th C rule, so what! That does not make it out of order just because it's been around for a bit. The very fact that it has been in the rules for over 300 years would say to me that the honourable persons who seek to govern us should know about it. I did and I'm just a pleb. It beggars belief that those persons in the house should have so little knowledge of the house rules. It's basic committee procedure and the basic procedure should be known chapter and verse. I would go as far as to say that all members of the house on election or re-election should have to take a test based on their knowledge of those rules before they are allowed to take up their seats. If they don't pass they should not be allowed to participate until they do. It would seem we are governed by buffoons. What we are actually seeing are the final nervous twitches and flapping of a headless chicken. I have said it before, time for a change, an extension, yes. Euro Elections, if we must, (only themselves to blame for running down the clock). Visit to the Queen and a General Election, it's all in the rules you know.

If Mrs May really thought she could win a third resolution she could always close this Parliament down and open it up again within a couple of days. Being a new parliamentary session she could introduce her bill again. But if she lost she would be out on her ear big style.

Richard (Bruff) warned us shortly after the referendum that the politicians were ignorant of many important things...

On 24th August 2016 Richard posted, saying that Brexit would be: `Biggest task ever undertaken by the civil service this will be. By a mile. Boom time frankly for sharp, bright civil servants.' The following day Stanley wrote: `The thing is Richard, have we got any bright politicians? and I wrote: `Who knows what we'll find when we start trying to unravel all the knots and loops? I wouldn't be surprised if we can't find the way out. Then it will be time for a U turn. But hey, our politicians might not be bright but they have lots of experience at U turns!'

On the same day Richard posted an example of ignorance among leading politicians: `So we hear that ‘committed Eurosceptic’ and former Minister for Europe David Davies MP, now Minister for Brexit, did not know as late as May this year that the UK could not negotiate with individual EU MS rather it is with the EU. A ‘committed Eurosceptic’ lacked this most basic knowledge; how on earth could he be committed? This worries me. It worries me because it results in our assuming things that simply won’t happen, for example the principle of free movement. This is absolutely fundamental to the project. Absolutely. But it also worries me because when knowledge is so lacking, then this ‘committed Euroscepticism’ hints at something more visceral and darker. I see this in those who seems to revel in the idea of the EU now collapsing now the UK has voted out. Why would anyone outside of something want that?' LINK

Found this on one of the local Politics Facebook sites. I have dumbed down the profanities slightly. Just about right though I reckon.
It reminds me in a way of "Constitutional Peasant's" but it's not funny, it's tragic that we have got to this through complete ineptitude.


UK to EU: "So, we have voted to leave"

EU to UK: "That's a shame, OK what's your proposals?"

UK to EU: "We don't have any, we are leaving."

EU to UK: "Yes, but what about the Good Friday Agreement and the Northern Irish border?"

UK to EU: "Eh?"

EU to UK: "It's an international treaty you signed, remember? Look, tell you what why doesn't NI stay in the Customs Union, job done."

UK to EU: "NEVER! You are not splitting the UK up."

EU to UK: "OK what do you propose?"

UK to EU: "Why are you being intransigent?"

EU to UK: "What? OK look, we need to sort this and you haven’t proposed anything, what about the whole of the UK staying in the Customs Union?"

UK to EU: "NEVER!

EU to UK: "FFS what then? This is your mess, tell us what you actually want."

UK to EU: "Why are you being intransigent?"

EU to UK: "Will you please just tell us what you want."

UK to EU: "OK if you're going to be like that, we want a backstop added to the Withdrawal Agreement.

EU to UK: "Finally, yes OK, thats fine, but remember this is your idea, shall we sign the Withdrawal Agreement off? Once we have done this we cannot reopen it in the time left."

UK to EU: "Yes, sign it off."

EU to UK: "Done."

UK to EU: "Ummm we couldn’t get it through parliament so we need to reopen the withdrawal agreement and change the backstop."

EU to UK: "We said we wouldn’t do that, but OK we might be able to do something, we are listening, what do you want to change it to?"

UK to EU: "Alternative arrangements."

EU to UK: "What?"

UK to EU: "Alternative arrangements."

EU to UK: "What the actual F is that?"

UK to EU: "Don't know, just something different."

EU to UK: "Look, the backstop was your idea, we reluctantly agreed, now you don't want it anymore and instead want it changed to something that doesn’t exist."

UK to EU: "Why are you being so intransigent?"

EU to UK: "It literally does not exist, what don't you understand about that?"

UK to EU: "Stop bullying us. OK, how about having a backstop that isn’t a backstop?"

EU to UK: "Oh bugger off you absolute idiots!"

Theresa May to UK general public: "The EU are being intransigent. This is not our fault, its all theirs."

"What we are actually seeing are the final nervous twitches and flapping of a headless chicken".
Very nicely put Ian and dead accurate!
Tiz, Richard has been spot on right from the start. Pity his level of expertise wasn't matched by our leaders! I have little doubt that 'brighter civil servants' have been trying to explain the rules to their political bosses but have they been listening?
That Facebook exchange typifies the general level of public understanding, again, spot on Ian. I agree with you, it's a tragedy which has now descended into farce.
I listened to a lady yesterday advancing an argument that there is a linkage between the general malaise in society that we see at the moment and bad governance. I think she is right, it's a very complicated situation and I find it very telling that if you want to try to predict what will happen next, imagine a playground argument amongst unformed minds and work off that. It's generally somewhere near the truth.
The bottom line is that we have a government and a political system that isn't fit for purpose. When faced with a situation as complicated as this, government and even Parliament itself crumbles under the strain. We need to rescind the Article 50 letter and press the reset button in UK politics.
Those whom the Gods seek to destroy, they first make mad. Tin hats on.

In normal times the Tories would be crowing this morning over the latest unemployment figures, the lowest since 1975. I just want to flag up my usual objection. How many of these 'wages' do not cover the cost of living and force families into benefits, debt and reliance on food banks?

I suppose one can argue that an increase in the working population even though they may be poorly paid is encouraging. But on the downside many of the annalists feel that these numbers were collected some months ago and haven't been 'Brexit' adjusted. The thinking being on the lines that although there is a increased workload its easier to employ more people who can be released without too much fuss than to take the risk of investing in new plant and equipment that may not have a long term use. They are using the fact that the productivity per person is not increasing which if more up-to-date machinery was being used we should be seeing.

Mrs May is saying that Brexit has gone on long enough and people are getting fed up with it. All True. This is all because of the EU's intransigence and Bercow's wrecking tactics. The sooner we get her deal through the better she says. When is this woman going to wake up to the fact her deal is dead in the water. Listening to Dominic Grieve MP Con: he talked more sense than any of the Cabinet ministers or paper pundits that are hogging the headlines.

I think you may be right P. Industrial investment (Like many other normal mechanisms) has virtually ceased because of uncertainty.
We hear this morning that May is writing to Jean Claude Junker to ask for a short delay. She is desperately trying to 'keep the ball rolling' and avoid blowing up her party by antagonising the ERG when what she should be doing is what is right for the country..... I can't help thinking that Parliament might blow its top any minute. Problem is I can't predict what shape this seismic change might take. Of course I could be totally mistaken.

It's a great shame that the majority of the public fails to see that the real reason for Brexit is to fulfil the dreams of Tory right wingers, to allow them to run the UK in their own sweet way. The public thinks it's Britain `taking back control' but it's really the right wingers taking control of Britain. What irony! Cameron started the referendum hare running to thwart the right wingers but instead it's appealing to their dreams of destiny.

Later, now it's all the fault of Parliament..... How hypocritical can you get?

EU haven't said yes yet, needs all 27 of them. With her current denial and blame strategy it should make it more likely that she will come to the despatch box outside No 10 and resign before the week is out. She shows no intention to take on board any cross party suggestions in order to represent it but still try and force the dead horse through, beggars belief.

I'm watching parliament at the moment- this is not quite accurate, but suits my mood.
What a shower.

PS - from Guido Fawkes

"Rumours are swirling that she will make a formal statement on the steps of Downing Street tonight…"

PPS - Heidi just intervened - best words hear today -
Picture going back up on the kitchen wall.

When I was running Ellenroad I had a few iron rules, one of them was that I was not interested in blame, all that concerned me was consequences. May would do well to apply that.... I sense a bid to cling to power under the guise of the people's friend. So, are we heading for the cliff edge? Somebody please tell me.... Please? Note the placement of two Union Flags behind May in Downing Street last night.
Later.... some proper Parliamentary business carries on regardless. See THIS BBC account of a report from the Home Affairs Committee which savages the Home Office over the treatment of migrants and their detention. It looks as though, despite clamour against it, May's 'Hostile Environment to immigrants' inside the Home Office is alive and well. It is disgraceful treatment of often vulnerable people and shames us all.

A Guardian article Walk Out. where Corbyn walked out of an all party meeting with Mrs May has been described as 'Girlish'. The meeting was apparently convened with all the party leaders to get a consensus opinion on the cock up over Brexit, this not withstanding that the cock up is entirely due to dissenters within her own party not voting for the deal. Unknown to Corbyn she invites Chuka Umunna to attend in effect elevating him to the status of a party leader. Although considered as the spokesman for the Independent Group, or 'Con-Centrics' as I would say, he had no business in being there and is nothing more than an mischievous ploy on Mrs May's part. The Brexit fiasco has become nothing short of a blame game with the brown stuff being flung at anybody who the Tories can think of. This is carpet bombing on an industrial scale. No doubt she will return from Brussels today and blame them for intransigence.

Now if I were a conspiracy theorist I might suggest that the site has been deliberately crashed by Brexiteers. But I'm not, so I won't.
`Brexit: Revoke Article 50 petition crashes Parliament website' LINK

It was OK at dinnertime yesterday when I voted. The email to confirm was slow but I had it this morning, 2,278,000 responses to date. It won't trigger a vote, they haven't time but it might perhaps be noticed. Is it the biggest e-petition ever?
It looks to me as though May has caved in to her hard liners to try to save the Party instead of considering what is best for the UK. The odds are on a no deal crash out..... Only 7 days to go....

Can this be true?

WHAT THE EU HAS AWAITING FOR US IN THEIR LOCKER!!
(Otherwise known as The Lisbon Treaty).

1. No Abstentions nor Vetoes on any proposals by 2020

2. Qualified Majority Voting (QMV) by 2020

3. A new Federal Nation of the EU by 2022 (all Nation states obliterated)

4. UK Sterling transfers to the Euro by 2022

5. The London Stock Exchange is subsumed into the Frankfurt Exchange by 2020

6. The European Court of Justice (ECJ) becomes the supreme court over British Law

7. Effectively does away with the House of Lords and the House of Commons

8. All trade negotiations are through the EU

9. UK loses its Fishing Rights

10.UK loses its Gas and Oil Rights from the North Sea

11.UK becomes part of Shengen (Open Borders) by 2022

12.UK loses all authority over Planning decisions

13.UK Loses control of its Armed Forces and its Nuclear deterrent

14.UK Loses control of its Taxation policies

15.MEPs assume authority over taxation policies

16.UK will be forced to apply the EU Financial Transfer Tax (ie: 1% of all transactions – this has massive implications for investments & pensions)

17.UK loses its standing as leader of the Commonwealth and authority over its Provinces –(ie: The Falklands, Cayman islands & Gibraltar)

18. UK loses its Rebate and Space exploration rights.



WHY? Is any MP in their right mind even thinking about Remaining in the EU?
WHY? Did Gordon Brown think that any of this was a good idea when he signed The Lisbon Treaty?